CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #50

[The Cheese]

I was just looking at the transcript the other day. Mark said when he went to bed, Dylan was watching Nickelodeon. Nothing about texting.

Earlier in the transcript, he said Dylan was texting after they got home at 8:15 - 8:30 and they were watching the movie.

I thought he had said Dylan was texting when he went to bed, but it wasn't in the transcript. At least I couldn't find it.

Could someone else review the transcript in case I'm not using the right search words or something? Thanks. Or is it possibly in a different transcript? Not the Blasius interview?

ETA Here's what I found.

After they got home at 8:15 - 8:30 and were watching the movie:

Mark Redwine: So, we would have been here probably about 8:15 - 8:30’ish, somewhere in there…

Melissa Blasius: ...So then, umm...so he’s texting back and forth with his friends, okay I’m not gonna’ come now…

Mark Redwine: ...But, I specifically remember him texting about that time, and he was texting on the couch after we were here and watching the movie he was over there texting or playing a video or something. I just assumed he was texting...


When Mark "ran up to bed" he doesn't say anything about texting, just that Dylan was watching Nickelodeon:

Mark Redwine:
Well, we were watching the movie together. I remember the movie being finished. I at some point was pacing the floor and got up and was taking care of a few little things you know over here at the kitchen table while we were doing that but, you know, it was – Shortly after the ending of that movie, which my guess, and I don’t recall because I don’t keep track of the clock… you know…it must have been… I thought it was earlier in the beginning…’cos I was fairly tired anyway, and I know Dylan was tired because he indicated to me that because he had been up ‘till 4:00 the night before and that he had spent most of the day in the airport traveling to get here that he was tired, and, you know, it seems to me it had to been about 10:30’ish maybe by the time the movie got done… somewhere in there and, you know, shortly after that I ran up and went to bed and he finished up doin’ whatever he was doin’ watching Nickelodeon or whatever he was watching.

Link to TxJan's transcript of this interview (Blasius) in the Media thread.

 

[Dee10]

First just to clarify, Mark claims it was 8:15 to 8:30 when they got home, but LE states shortly after 8:00.

The MB interview is the only one that I am aware of that he talked about that portion of the evening.

[FONT=&quot]Mark Redwine:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Well, there’s not a lot of cell phone service between Durango and the lake up here, and it’s not until you come up past the dam that you actually can get your cell phone service as a Verizon customer. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But, I specifically remember him texting about that time, and he was texting on the couch after we were here and watching the movie he was over there texting or playing a video or something. I just assumed he was texting, ‘cos it’s not like he can’t ever get service up here, it’s just very sporadic. You know, in one place he might be he can’t get service and then he could take a step to the left or a step to the right and voila all of a sudden he has service, and the two places he told me he could get service was from the corner of the couch where he was sitting, which has been changed, but right by the TV there, and my room.[/FONT]

Also this maybe of interest

[FONT=&quot]Mark Redwine:
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]It was a …. it was a low rated movie. I was struggling through it, but I’m not a big movie person I have a hard time watching any movie, cos my concentration on one thing for 2 hours is a little hard for me which is one of the reasons I spend more time watching 30 minute shows like sitcoms and things like that.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Melissa Blasius:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So… so… you guys watched the movie, and then… and then what happened, did he just?

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark Redwine:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Well, we were watching the movie together. I remember the movie being finished. I at some point was pacing the floor and got up and was taking care of a few little things you know over here at the kitchen table while we were doing that but, you know, it was – Shortly after the ending of that movie, which my guess, and I don’t recall because I don’t keep track of the clock… you know…it must have been… I thought it was earlier in the beginning…’cos I was fairly tired anyway, and I know Dylan was tired because he indicated to me that because he had been up ‘till 4:00 the night before and that he had spent most of the day in the airport traveling to get here that he was tired, and, you know, it seems to me it had to been about 10:30’ish maybe by the time the movie got done… somewhere in there and, you know, shortly after that I ran up and went to bed and he finished up doin’ whatever he was doin’ watching Nickelodeon or whatever he was watching.[/FONT]

TxJan Transcript

 

[cluciano63]

First just to clarify, Mark claims it was 8:15 to 8:30 when they got home, but LE states shortly after 8:00.

The MB interview is the only one that I am aware of that he talked about that portion of the evening.

Also this maybe of interest

TxJan Transcript

All I can say to how he answers questions is...good grief.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Well my personal theory on the last electric communique is ( drumroll please ) I don't know if it matters if it was a cell phone, ipod, laptop, desktop or landline. There has been tons of discussion about it and mostly I steer clear of it because I don't see what it matters. So someone can point me to the shiny needle if there is one. After 9:37 Dylan made no more statements to anyone of any kind in any form on ANY DEVICE. Is there a reason pertinent to finding Dylan that it matters from what device? His cell phone is MIA and AN IPOD , his or MR's , is in police possession. Clearly that IPOD shows no clues to Dylans' whereabouts or we would know he is by now. I just figure it is one of those things, like so many in this case, that has been beat to death , conversation wise because we have so few really hard facts to discuss. So ,,,,,,, please tell me why knowing what device makes a difference as to his whereabouts ? *( bracing for the onslaught, lol)

My take on why it COULD matter:
If the "electronic communication" came from his iPod Touch, why? Why not his phone? If it came from Mark's iPod Touch, why? Why not Dylan's phone? Assume phone is dead, why not plug it in and use it? Had the phone been taken away? If yes, why?(goes to possible motive of anger in the part of a parent) If not, did he have his charger? If not, explains why phone was not used the next day. One question answered. If yes, he had his charger, why nothing on his phone? (goes to reasons why phone was not used for communication)

Assume phone could not get signal. Dylan shut it down to stop battery drain. Used iPod Touch to make text(s). Confirmation THAT iPod Touch made it to the WiFi source at whatever time that was. (goes to confirmation of Dylan's iPod making it to Mark's house)

If Dylan used an iPod Touch to log in to iTunes or a game site, confirmation that he (if he was the only one that knew the password) made it to the WiFi site at his dad's house. (goes to Dylan making it to Mark's house)

If Dylan used his father's iPod Touch to text, why? What happened to Dylan's electronic communication devices? Could they have been taken away? If so, did he sneak a text on his Father's iPod Touch? (goes to possible motive of anger in the part of a parent) If the text was on Mark's iPod Touch, why? Did Dylan send it or someone else? (goes to possibility of someone other than Dylan sending the text)

I have more....

 

[Ghostwheel]

BBM - I am thinking along these same lines. Elaine first stated the texts ended a little after 8. That makes me think that texts on the cell phone that she had access to records on did end then, and further texts came from another device. Those latter texts could be very unlike something Dylan wrote. Say, full words and sentences, rather than cryptic "IDK" type answers. Or rambling, or even bizarre.

Or cut off in the middle; not sent; to someone he normally would not have texted; said something teenagery (no, not a real word) about his father; complained about something specific, etc.

There may be nothing to this. Or there may be something to this. It depends on what the text was, what was used, whether it was WiFi or cell, and a host of other things. His texts are all clues to what Dylan was thinking at the time.

 

[rebeccaeee]

Or cut off in the middle; not sent; to someone he normally would not have texted; said something teenagery (no, not a real word) about his father; complained about something specific, etc.

There may be nothing to this. Or there may be something to this. It depends on what the text was, what was used, whether it was WiFi or cell, and a host of other things. His texts are all clues to what Dylan was thinking at the time.

Exactly to both your posts re: the texts. There might also be a cluue to how he and/or Mark was behaving that night. So much we don't know but I appreciate your thoughts. They are similar to mine re: the last text.

 

[cluciano63]

Whatever clues may or may not be in the final communication, it has not helped to find Dylan or even to point LE in one specific direction, apparently. If anything, could be something useful if there is ever a trial.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

Mark Redwine: ...But, I specifically remember him texting about that time, and he was texting on the couch after we were here and watching the movie he was over there texting or playing a video or something. I just assumed he was texting...

if Dylan had been playing a video it would have been on his iPod touch IMO, since he didn't have a smart phone. presumably there would have been sound or he had headphones on, but MRs comment about assuming Dylan was texting would lead me to think MR was talking about Dylans phone.

 

[Ghostwheel]

if Dylan had been playing a video it would have been on his iPod touch IMO, since he didn't have a smart phone. presumably there would have been sound or he had headphones on, but MRs comment about assuming Dylan was texting would lead me to think MR was talking about Dylans phone.

I got the opposite (funny how that can work...) If Mark assumed Dylan was watching a video or texting, then I would think Dylan had to be using the iPod Touch, since his phone was not a smart phone, and probably did not play videos.

ETA: I suppose I'm of the mind that I would try to figure out where Dylan could be differently, depending on the whys and wherefores of the messages and devices used for them. My initial thought and leanings are still with his father being responsible in some way for the disappearance, whether directly or indirectly. But certain inconsistencies would make more sense, depending on the electronic communications and devices. I do not like thinking that parents would do terrible things to their children. (Although I accept that is the case sometimes)

 

[Dee10]

Ya know, if MR's version is true Dylan might as well have been at his friend's IMO, not a lot of bonding happened. :facepalm:

 

[Oriah]

Dylan's case in brief: Reported missing from Vallecito Lake, CO on Nov. 19th from dad's house which is about 2+ miles upo the road from the actual lake. Lots of speculation that he may have been murdered and placed in the lake or ended up there in an accident.

Three different teams of dogs/handlers have come to Vallecito Lake and indicated hits for human remains. These hits are primarily strongest on the eastern shore (they built a coffer dam and searched last week) as well as the southern dam area. Why hits in different locations? Would a body on the shore that was moved after an hour or so still indicate strong hits five months later? Sarx thought not. Would a body that had been trapped pn something under water and then freed also still indicate at that area (as we are thinking about the dam)? Boats with sidescan sonar came and searched both areas and found them clean except for tree stump debris. No body found yet so why the hits?

Water temp in November was hovering around 35 degrees, I think. Been iced over from December to April. Ice free now, water temps at 42, when would a body float? Particularly in a high altitude area?

Scent dogs are of no obvious use now. HRD dogs might be. What would you suggest for an HRD ground search? Area is rugged and has been covered by snow. HRD and scent dogs have been used. Still no Dylan.

ETA: If a backpack was on a body, say for 2 months, then came off would it give off a strong scent or week scent and for how long after it was off the body?

I think those are the primary search questions....I know helicopters have done many flyovers of ground and lake, both initially and most recently with the thaw. Besides the obvious, what indicators are they looking for?

Thanks for anything you can help with. Been here awhile, the crowd is thinning and we're still all so desperate to bring Dylan home.

1st let me say thank you to all who PM'd to help bring me up to speed. It was very helpful, and concise and exactly what I needed to catch. Thank you all. Now....

1st bolded by me:
I rarely disagree with sarx, but on this point I *might.* Water movement, ambient air temp, fluctuating water temps, depth, and the dam itself all play a role in this. A K9 trained in water HRD may or may not have been able to alert to the scent of decomp 5 months later if the decomp was in certain types of preserved states. I know some of the K9's and handlers brought in have been questioned re: their motivation, training, etc. Not knowing what is true there, I can't really comment as to their standardization. But a propertly trained HRD water dog, or even an avalanche K9 seems like it would have been an effective tool over the winter. A body does not need to float for an HRD K9 to scent off of decomp. It DOES need access though ice. So if holes were drilled through the ice, and decomp were within a certain range of that (it varies according to the training of the dog) the dogs should be able to alert since the scent seeps up through drilled holes in ice- much like you can smell a gas leak in your home, but can't always find the actual source.

2nd BBM: Side scan sonar can be a very effective tool. But it is often hindered by bodies of water that have a lot of debris. Manmade lakes (lots of tree stumps) and bodies of water where vehicles and other large equipment such as washing machines etc also can hinder. I don't know what specific kind of sonar was used- anyone know?

3rd BBM: I personally would rework all of the areas where K9's intially hit after each thaw with certified HRD dogs. The gridded areas surrounding the initial alerts may not have been large enough due to water movement, rising and falling water water levels, etc. Remember, as water freezes, it expands. And/or the team supervisors may have had trouble communicating with each other what areas were cleared vs uncleared. A common problem when many teams with different training are involved. As for the backpack, I doubt at this point it would contain any discernable scent at all, unless (warning: graphic) there are parts or pieces of decmp in it.

HTHs answer some questions.

 

[The Cheese]

1st let me say thank you to all who PM'd to help bring me up to speed. It was very helpful, and concise and exactly what I needed to catch. Thank you all. Now....

1st bolded by me:
I rarely disagree with sarx, but on this point I *might.* Water movement, ambient air temp, fluctuating water temps, depth, and the dam itself all play a role in this. A K9 trained in water HRD may or may not have been able to alert to the scent of decomp 5 months later if the decomp was in certain types of preserved states. I know some of the K9's and handlers brought in have been questioned re: their motivation, training, etc. Not knowing what is true there, I can't really comment as to their standardization. But a propertly trained HRD water dog, or even an avalanche K9 seems like it would have been an effective tool over the winter. A body does not need to float for an HRD K9 to scent off of decomp. It DOES need access though ice. So if holes were drilled through the ice, and decomp were within a certain range of that (it varies according to the training of the dog) the dogs should be able to alert since the scent seeps up through drilled holes in ice- much like you can smell a gas leak in your home, but can't always find the actual source.

2nd BBM: Side scan sonar can be a very effective tool. But it is often hindered by bodies of water that have a lot of debris. Manmade lakes (lots of tree stumps) and bodies of water where vehicles and other large equipment such as washing machines etc also can hinder. I don't know what specific kind of sonar was used- anyone know?

3rd BBM: I personally would rework all of the areas where K9's intially hit after each thaw with certified HRD dogs. The gridded areas surrounding the initial alerts may not have been large enough due to water movement, rising and falling water water levels, etc. Remember, as water freezes, it expands. And/or the team supervisors may have had trouble communicating with each other what areas were cleared vs uncleared. A common problem when many teams with different training are involved. As for the backpack, I doubt at this point it would contain any discernable scent at all, unless (warning: graphic) there are parts or pieces of decmp in it.

HTHs answer some questions.

Side scan sonar was used by both the state police dive team in November, and the recent search by the team brought in by Elaine. Both teams did extensive sweeps of the south and east of the lake.

The bottom of the lake is clean, according to the head of the sonar team brought in by Elaine recently. The team in November said the water was clear, and there's video where the news guy there filmed the water while he reported what the dive team said, showing the clarity of the water.

This is from the head of the sonar team Elaine brought in recently:

The lake, he said, was not particularly difficult to search.

'The bottom is really clean, except for the occasional stump and woody debris. For the most part, it is very clean, ' Ralston said.

http://gazette.com/lake-search-yields-no-clues-to-missing-monument-boy/article/1500114

Here are all the dog teams that have searched. 6 of the 7 dogs are HRD dogs.

Dogs used in the lake area searches
Total 5 dog teams, 5 handlers, 7 dogs. All but one dog is a cadaver dog. (Vreeland/Cayenne team searched 2 separate areas, south and mid-east.)

November
3 dog teams (3 dogs with 3 separate handlers)

Trained cadaver dogs from La Plata Search and Rescue alerted on unidentified scent sources in Vallecito Lake Saturday and again Sunday morning.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/-/s...in-bayfield-area-for-missing-dylan-redwine-13

The dogs are trained to distinguish between human remains and animal remains, according to handlers Rae Dreves and Katie Steelman, both of Durango. Their dogs are Selah and Darc, respectively.

The third dog on the search, Cayenne, is handled by Roy Vreeland of Bayfield.
http://durangoherald.com/article/20121125/NEWS01/121129707/-1/s

February
1 dog team (1 handler with 3 dogs)

Wendy Kessinger of Special Operations Canine Detection of New Mexico conducted the searches with two dogs, Jetta and Saber, that are trained to identify bones and human remains. Another bloodhound, Sadie, is trained to find live people and also was involved in the search.

http://www.pinerivertimes.com/news.asp?artid=1138

April
2 dog teams (2 dogs with 2 separate handlers)

Hess said Hope for Dylan Redwine contacted the cadaver dog team best suited for their needs and flew in a handler and her dog that is specifically trained and certified on cadavers, but especially recognizes the scent of human remains on water.

Local resident Roy Vreeland’s dog searched the same stretch of shore, and again the dog indicated the odor of human remains, Hess said.

http://www.pinerivertimes.com/news.asp?artid=1162

 

[Oriah]

Side scan sonar was used by both the state police dive team in November, and the recent search by the team brought in by Elaine. Both teams did extensive sweeps of the south and east of the lake.

The bottom of the lake is clean, according to the head of the sonar team brought in by Elaine recently. The team in November said the water was clear, and there's video where the news guy there filmed the water while he reported what the dive team said, showing the clarity of the water.

This is from the head of the sonar team Elaine brought in recently:

The lake, he said, was not particularly difficult to search.

'The bottom is really clean, except for the occasional stump and woody debris. For the most part, it is very clean, ' Ralston said.

http://gazette.com/lake-search-yields-no-clues-to-missing-monument-boy/article/1500114

Here are all the dog teams that have searched. 6 of the 7 dogs are HRD dogs.

What is the substrate of the lake made up of?
And of the 6 HRD K9's which were certified by whom?

 

[The Cheese]

What is the substrate of the lake made up of?
And of the 6 HRD K9's which were certified by whom?

2 of the dogs are Wendy's, and I believe they're certified magicians.

I'll get you the certifications on the other 4 dogs, and the lake info, but this is my pancake day, so I'll be going out for a while. It will be this afternoon some time.

 

[The Cheese]

Oriah,

Here's the info on the dog team brought in by Elaine recently. That dog and handler's names haven't been in MSM but they're not hard to find.

FMDR facebook post that lists the impressive credentials of the dog from Illinois who Elaine brought out for this most recent search. I haven't seen a linkable source to the name of the handler and dog.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...555396767820264.144727.555378941155380&type=1

Another FMDR post that gives the name of the husband and wife sonar/boat/ROV team Elaine brought out.

https://www.facebook.com/FindMissingDylanRedwine/posts/637916552901618

Roy Vreeland is a private citizen, and I'm hesitant to post the information I found on him and his dog. I'm still trying to find a professional page that has him and his dog info I can link to.

The other handlers/dogs are from La Plata County Search and Rescue. I can't find a listing for the certifications of those specific dogs, but here's a link to the LPCSAR page. If you scroll down, there's a section on their canine team.
http://www.laplatasar.org/www/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=10&Itemid=23


And please note that the dog that was in the article I linked as "Selah" actually seems to be named "Sayla" from other articles.

 

[Lordeebee]

ORIAH
wonder - if a body were "dismembered" would this account for HRD hits in various parts of the lake, and with stronger hits in particular areas?

If a body were placed or buried on land near a tributary that fed into the lake, (there are several of these feeding the reservoir) would this provide strong enough scent for dogs to hit on in the lake?

(sorry I know these are sadly sensitive questions)

Oriah, will you please answer the above? TIA!!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What is the substrate of the lake made up of?
And of the 6 HRD K9's which were certified by whom?

Why is it important to know the substrate of the lake? That could be mud,sand,granule,pebble,cobble or boulder.

Couldn't a man made reservoir have all of those materials in different areas as it's bottom? The only thing that should cause a problem for a sonar search is boulders. We haven't heard about boulders at this point so I don't think that they have been a problem. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question about the lakes substrate.

Your asking about the HRD dogs certification is not hard to understand. I think that the training of the dogs and their handlers is the key to why we have HRD dog alerts at the lake but with no human remains having been found.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substrate_%28marine_biology%29"]Substrate (marine biology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[cluciano63]

Were all of those dogs poorly trained though? Weren't they from different teams?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Were all of those dogs poorly trained though? Weren't they from different teams?

Were the dogs poorly trained or were the dogs handlers poorly trained? I think that Oriah is on track by asking who certified these teams.

 

[cluciano63]

Were the dogs poorly trained or were the dogs handlers poorly trained? I think that Oriah is on track by asking who certified these teams.

Sarx said the same thing, basically. But is seems a shame if dogs from entirely different sources were all poorly trained.