CO - Gannon Stauch, 11, found deceased, Colorado Springs, El Paso County, 27 Jan 2020 *Arrest* #62

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  • #61
I don't think any state in the United States permits drug addiction as part of the insanity defense. If she ever did use drugs, she was clean when the FBI came by to arrest her, IMO. But the longterm damage and the behavioral tells can persist long after the drug use has stopped. Boy, would that be a bombshell though (if she did have drugs in her system upon arrest, besides her prescribed ones). The Defense is going to stay mum about that (subverts the NGRI) and the State might not want any kind of "impairment" mentioned, either. Hard to say. Some jurors have been known to buy the "impairment" idea (not in CO's system, that I know of, though). Well, I can think of one case (involving heroin) where a man was charged with second degree murder instead of first. I would think if there were any actual evidence of recent drug use by Letecia, we'd have heard about it.

So we are still faced with the odd prospect of her acting just like a tweaker (IMO) but...not being one?

IMO.
I have often wondered if she took some of Gannon's Adderal or Ritalin (I don't know what he was prescribed)? The defendant said he would not take it sometimes on the weekend. I can totally see her doing that.

MOO
 
  • #62
You never sound snarky!

Thank you so much. One or more of them will testify about her MMPI results. I am beyond excited about that - because I believe the State said in their opening (or at some point) that she could be a malingerer (which is what I think she is). That's yet another reason why I think she'll pull out even more batty behaviors once she's permanently behind bars. Malingering is the opposite of being "mentally ill," and it will give the jury a very close focus on why Letecia is the way she is. She's used to playing a victim card (malingering). OTOH, Letecia has shown significant cognitive difficulty in those phone calls, with both AS and Grusing. I think it's the panicked behavior of someone who has no clue how she totally lost control and killed someone, but was prepared to kill someone and had thought about consequences, both before and after. As her "plan" unravels, she gets sloppy (but to me, that panicked unraveling would be enough to bring on a psychotic break for some people - or cause severe disassociation in others). I see no signs of either. Limited, stupid planning, yes - but still planning, and her affect is not all over the place - it's just consistently inappropriate and she is exceedingly self-interested.


I hope the psychologists try to establish that malignant narcissism is not a form of insanity, but a playbook for people who are selfish. Narcissistic PD is so widespread, we can't use it as a benchmark for insanity!

IMO.
Last Monday April 17 the Defense was challenging or objecting to Dr. Torres’ report or an article she’s referring to so the State had the Judge address her. She hasn’t testified yet- probably this Wednesday April 26.

At 5:19

 
  • #63
Last Monday April 17 the Defense was challenging or objecting to Dr. Torres’ report or an article she’s referring to so the State had the Judge address her. She hasn’t testified yet- probably this Wednesday April 26.

At 5:19


Thank you so much, @Cindizzi. It started right at that point. :oops:

Goose seems pretty much cooked at this point. It's interesting how the State is spreading out its various multi-pronged approaches. I can't wait for the psychologists to testify!


I have often wondered if she took some of Gannon's Adderal or Ritalin (I don't know what he was prescribed)? The defendant said he would not take it sometimes on the weekend. I can totally see her doing that.

MOO

Good point - yes, I can see that too. And so many people have one of those meds in their house, as so many people are diagnosed ADHD. The legitimately diagnosed constitute almost 5% of the population, and people also get online Rx's that are perhaps not formally reported by online pharmacies. And of course, people sell them on the street as well (every once in a while, a pharmacy gets busted).

IMO.
 
  • #64
I have often wondered if she took some of Gannon's Adderal or Ritalin (I don't know what he was prescribed)? The defendant said he would not take it sometimes on the weekend. I can totally see her doing that.

MOO
In the first interview at Starbucks, AS told LE that G takes Vyvanse.

In the FBI interview LS told Grusing the same medication and said G had been on it since age 5.

Grusing asked if G took Adderall or anything else and LS said no.

JMO
 
  • #65
Did y'all catch what she told Grusing about her job? That she'd already decided not to take it?

Yeah, see  we all know she gave fake references, the one backfiring big time when someone else answered Gannon's phone. I'm sure T herself was going to be an amazing Connie Hunt. Maybe a little Maria Sanchez.

Considering T's position that weekend -- Al would rather sleep on a dirty airport floor than with her, her manipulative tactics aren't working (he's rebuffing her advances), she's stuck babysitting OPKs (other people's kids) and her husband is going to find out she still doesn't have a job. Plus having both fake-miscarried and being fake-pregnant, that's a lot of self-created drama. That's T's currency.

That's how she survives. Creates drama, pulls the fire alarm.

If only we could rewrite this mess, save Gannon from her and let her combust of her own self-absorbed idiocy.

 That would be justice.

Jmo
If that’s all true, I wish Al had made her move out or moved with the kids and gotten a babysitter. I can see where his rejection made her resentful but their problems started back East, even before Alaska. I wish he had trusted Landen enough to send the kids to her but I guess he believed LS loved them. Nope. Situation is very sad. And in her craziness, she thought Al should stay with her! Can you imagine what she would have planned for Laina after HH left for the Air Force? She is truly certifiable. Maniac and murderer.
 
  • #66
When I started to Google her a couple of weeks ago I didn't read very much, but do recall seeing that she'd stated that DID was often found in people of high intelligence. It gave me an 'Ah-ha' moment when one of the defence lawyers asked AS "she was very intelligent, right?" . AS answered 'not especially' or wtte. So he scuppered that one.
I could be wrong, but I swear that question of her intelligence was asked of her brother, and I believe he confirmed that she was.
 
  • #67
So Liana is a witness for the prosecution? I wonder when they will call her?
 
  • #68
Here is a portion of the defense's (ridiculous, imo) opening statement:


COOK: “There is no reason, it doesn’t make sense. It’s insane. Smiling photo, the next day Gannon’s gone. There’s no reason for it.

“She broke on that day ladies and gentleman, she broke from all that was right and made sense.”

Cook: “The person she was killing that day, that wasn’t Gannon to her. She didn’t wake up that day and say i’m going to kill my stepson Gannon Stauch today. No she was killing the demons in her life in the dark depths of her childhood, in her life.”

Cook: "Some people have severe mental health issues but they don’t go out and kill people. They don’t go out and kill 11-year-old boys, they’re stepsons that they had nice hikes with the day before."

Cook: "They don’t stab the stepson dozens of times, they don’t shoot him….beat him, burn him…it’s wrong and it’s horrible and she was not sane. And she will be held accountable."

Cook says if she’s found not guilty by reason of insanity it doesn’t mean she walks out of here. She will go to the state mental hospital.

https://twitter.com/FierroNicole
 
  • #69
Dr. Lewis' testimony will be interesting... I believe the State will have a super cross. moo ;)


Esquire: How widely is Dissociative Identity Disorder recognized in court today?

Dr. Lewis:
I think it's a diagnosis that, unless you have seen it, you're likely not to recognize it. When I look back at certain very puzzling patients, I think I probably missed the diagnosis. But my point is that if this is a very controversial disorder for psychiatrists, it is even more controversial for the legal system and for the public at large. So you have to have very good evidence that it exists, and even then it's called into question. Some of the best evidence of its existence would be writing or drawing or artwork done by the person that you're examining long before you ever set eyes on them.

 
  • #70
I could be wrong, but I swear that question of her intelligence was asked of her brother, and I believe he confirmed that she was.
Around 40:00

Tolini tells Al that Al said LS is an intelligent person.
Al says “ Do you have a record of my saying that? “

I don’t think Tolini ever found a record of it.

 
  • #71
I could be wrong, but I swear that question of her intelligence was asked of her brother, and I believe he confirmed that she was.
I believe the brother was asked if she was intelligent, and he answered that she was. However that was unremarkable, as she was his much older sister, who seemed to have worked some fairly good jobs etc. Everything's relative.
But Tolini did ask AS. He put it to AS that in interview AS had said she was of high intelligence. AS answered WTTE "Are you sure about that, can you show me where I said it?". Tolini then had a torrid few minutes of desperately searching transcripts, and all he was able to come up with was AS having told Det Bethel what level of education standard LS had.
 
  • #72
Here is a portion of the defense's (ridiculous, imo) opening statement:


COOK: “There is no reason, it doesn’t make sense. It’s insane. Smiling photo, the next day Gannon’s gone. There’s no reason for it.

“She broke on that day ladies and gentleman, she broke from all that was right and made sense.”

Cook: “The person she was killing that day, that wasn’t Gannon to her. She didn’t wake up that day and say i’m going to kill my stepson Gannon Stauch today. No she was killing the demons in her life in the dark depths of her childhood, in her life.”

Cook: "Some people have severe mental health issues but they don’t go out and kill people. They don’t go out and kill 11-year-old boys, they’re stepsons that they had nice hikes with the day before."

Cook: "They don’t stab the stepson dozens of times, they don’t shoot him….beat him, burn him…it’s wrong and it’s horrible and she was not sane. And she will be held accountable."

Cook says if she’s found not guilty by reason of insanity it doesn’t mean she walks out of here. She will go to the state mental hospital.

https://twitter.com/FierroNicole
The only reason they are going with this:
1. They don't dare state she is innocent. Too much evidence. They couldn't swing a not guilty.
2. She thinks she can escape from an institution.
Plain and simple.
 
  • #73
I have often wondered if she took some of Gannon's Adderal or Ritalin (I don't know what he was prescribed)? The defendant said he would not take it sometimes on the weekend. I can totally see her doing that.

MOO
LS/AS testified Gannon was taking Vyvanse and most recently LS told investigators he'd been taking it since around age 5 and it worked best for him so they kept with it. But since she blames Gannon's bowl problems and accidents on the RX, you have to wonder if it was LS that liked this RX. JMO

 
  • #74
In the first interview at Starbucks, AS told LE that G takes Vyvanse.

In the FBI interview LS told Grusing the same medication and said G had been on it since age 5.

Grusing asked if G took Adderall or anything else and LS said no.

JMO
Well we do know that the defendant is lying when her lips are moving. I don't believe anything she says. :)
 
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  • #75
That's very kind of you.

I don't know how helpful my work has been to them, directly. My work has always had the focus of helping treatment teams better understand what's going on (it's odd how patients speak differently to outsiders/non-staff - I was kind of like a visitor from the patient point of view - they often told me things about staff or other patients and I could keep them anonymous when I met with the staff). I would sit in the TV room, for example, and just chill with the patients. Or I'd just talk to random prisoners in various stages of their inmate experience. Sometimes, the goal was more patient-oriented (toward a particular patient). The psychiatric nurses were my teachers. The psychiatrists were formidable, I never ran into a single one who wasn't doing their best for patients, but it is a very difficult job and almost no one lasts for decades or even a decade, in that context. As a result, in many institutions (whether prison psych wards or state hospitals), care/supervision is provided by people with less than a bachelor's and sometimes with just a GED (often called ward techs or orderlies). The state psych hospital required everyone to do training though.

But I did get "taken in" by various people. I'd become convinced someone wasn't mentally ill enough to be locked up indefinitely (someone who was wanting out). My conviction would usually only last a couple of hours and the psychiatrists taught me a lot about how not to get taken in. They also found some of my efforts quite humorous. It's still amazing to me how powerful the transference can be when one is in the presence of certain mental illnesses.

The rubric for care at most of the places I worked was that there could be only one severely disordered (psychopath; sociopath; severe PD people) per unit, as a baseline. This was considered a step in their treatment (the severely disordered people were still given hope - it's very important that they occasionally try to re-integrate into an environment that isn't just all severely disordered people). However, due to economic constraints, there would often be 4-5 such people in a ward.

Then, there were wards for the severely disabled longterm people (schizophrenic wards turned out to be more predictable and manageable for me, personally). It was very interesting getting to see so many psychotic people come into the intake units at each of these places (I did quite a bit of ER observation as well). One psychiatrist said, "All psychosis looks pretty much alike, at least in the first hours of admitting them: schizophrenics; bipolars; major depresson; drug addicts; schizoaffectives, some Personality Disorders." At the time I did most of my work, there were very few ways of easily telling how to manage treatment in those first hours.

Bottom line is: people can be quite dangerous but appear perfectly normal. The longterm mentally ill are usually incapable of organizing a crime (but can be very impulsive - I actually stopped working in the jails some time ago, due to this issue, it was just too scary sometimes, especially at the intake jail). Working at the jail, btw, was every single person's least desired job within the public agency where they all worked - they all worked diligently to put in enough time and receive good employee reviews, so that they could get the heck out of there. Many of them found jobs elsewhere as well. At the employee entrance to the State Hospital, there was a little museum of weapons taken from patients (often improvised from a gift brought in by a family member - such as a pen or pencil). Sobering. There was a ward for pedophile rapists and another for "regular" serial rapists. Serial killers get sent to the special Medical (Psych) Ward at Vacaville, in CA. I was there only once (but studied under the man who studied Kemperer there). That was not for me.

At any rate, Letecia seems to have been functioning at a moderately high level right before she killed Gannon. She seems to have evaded psychiatric care altogether. That has brought me around to several other theories about this case that are pure speculation (and most of that speculation initially came from members here). Such as: Was Letecia sexually active outside her marriage? Why is there discussion of a threesome? (She acts as if Al would have had knowledge of this - which I doubt - but it's still a peculiar thing to say). Why did she take $8000+ from Al? What did she do with it? Was that the only time money went missing? Did she use street drugs? Why does her mind so rapidly go to Bad Actors/criminals (how often has she told Al that her car was followed?) Does she really have an Ed.D.? Will we ever know? Did she really go to law school (Al seems to doubt it). Was Al about to leave her? Did she get weird every time he left town? Why does she pressure Grusing for "protection" for her mother and siblings? Al seems pretty onto her (that yawn and the other "advertiser censored" behaviors he uses on her really got to her. That part is just regular narcissism. But a spiraling, malignant narcissism is something else to watch. I wonder what her real triggers were that weekend.

I am keeping in mind that almost all of this, if any of it is relevant, had to have happened outside of HH's knowledge. Neither HH nor AS seem to treat LS as if she's insane, which I find notable. AS speaks to her as he always has, apparently, as if she's perfectly sane or at least capable of understanding exactly what she says. He acts as if they both know she's lying, she tries to bribe him to say otherwise. She's used to turning her intimate relationships into this kind of...messed up attempt to manipulate. Probably applies to every relationship in her world and everyone has enabled her in some way (out of fear, most likely).

Sorry for the long Sunday post. I'm just catching up.

SPECULATION and opinion above.
This is a great post. Thank you.
 
  • #76
Well we do know that the defendant is lying when lips are moving. I don't believe anything she says. :)

I really hope that she testifies in her own defense. It will make Jodi Arias look like a piker on the crazy chart.
 
  • #77
Dr. Lewis' testimony will be interesting... I believe the State will have a super cross. moo ;)


Esquire: How widely is Dissociative Identity Disorder recognized in court today?

Dr. Lewis:
I think it's a diagnosis that, unless you have seen it, you're likely not to recognize it. When I look back at certain very puzzling patients, I think I probably missed the diagnosis. But my point is that if this is a very controversial disorder for psychiatrists, it is even more controversial for the legal system and for the public at large. So you have to have very good evidence that it exists, and even then it's called into question. Some of the best evidence of its existence would be writing or drawing or artwork done by the person that you're examining long before you ever set eyes on them.

"Some of thebest evidence of its existance would be writing or drawing or artwork done by the person that you're examining long before you ever set eyes on them"

She surely cant be serious with this? I dont know 1 single MH professional that would diagnose anyone with anything without seeing them first.
You can tell they have DID because you saw their doodles they made in jail?
Thats so laughable. It cant be real.
 
  • #78
I'm not an expert to say the very least, but does anyone know anything about psychopathy?

I stumbled upon a show called Signs of a Psychopath and watched a few episodes. It's interesting, because a lot of these cases show similar character traits to Leticia.

I'm sure this has been discussed and asked, but I have not been able to keep everyday: Does she have anyone (family, friends) that attend court in support of her?
 
  • #79
Here is a portion of the defense's (ridiculous, imo) opening statement:


COOK: “There is no reason, it doesn’t make sense. It’s insane. Smiling photo, the next day Gannon’s gone. There’s no reason for it.

“She broke on that day ladies and gentleman, she broke from all that was right and made sense.”

Cook: “The person she was killing that day, that wasn’t Gannon to her. She didn’t wake up that day and say i’m going to kill my stepson Gannon Stauch today. No she was killing the demons in her life in the dark depths of her childhood, in her life.”

Cook: "Some people have severe mental health issues but they don’t go out and kill people. They don’t go out and kill 11-year-old boys, they’re stepsons that they had nice hikes with the day before."

Cook: "They don’t stab the stepson dozens of times, they don’t shoot him….beat him, burn him…it’s wrong and it’s horrible and she was not sane. And she will be held accountable."

Cook says if she’s found not guilty by reason of insanity it doesn’t mean she walks out of here. She will go to the state mental hospital.

https://twitter.com/FierroNicole
^^bbm

Cook can't be serious!

Same can be said about several killers we've discussed on WS that are not insane and don't claim to be including Chris Watts! You know that as CW grasped SW's neck and squeezed the life out of her, he was also seeing his mother's and sister's faces and any other woman that he believed dominated him and made him feel inferior.

In this case, those stab wounds on this innocent child's body were delivered for LH burdening her, and AS who failed to see her as his princess bride (how LS referred to wanting AS to see and treat her in one of their recorded calls). LS was losing in love, work, and family and wanted everybody to pay for her misery. JMO
 
  • #80
Cook isn't serious. He said it doesn't make sense. That's why I posted it. It is nonsense. moo
 
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