CO - Gym teacher accused of assaulting student who refused to stand for Pledge

[Deleted member 158085]

We don't know who broke the rules. Like I said before we don't know how the teenager was behaving. Was he being disruptive? Disrespectful?

The facts as we know them now is that she assaulted him for refusing to stand for the pledge of allegiance, which is his/her right according to the rules. She was not allowed to punish him/her for this in any way.

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[flourish]

agreed...it is a control technique,

im just curious as to what you would suggest doing if a child in a school misbehaves?.....won't do what he/her is told, talks back to a teacher, swears at a teacher, throws food at a teacher, runs out of class, runs out of the school, throws desks and chairs around the classroom, etc etc.....what is your suggestion if a teacher can not touch a child?.....i have seen all of the above happen first hand....so what would you do?

Having worked for years in classrooms with upwards of 18 preschool aged children, many with special needs, I managed to never hit a child! Imagine that! There's this great thing called "positive behavior support" which is used in many schools and is geared towards preventing maladaptive behavior. It uses strategies such as stating expectations clearly and in a positive manner. For example, telling children to use inside voices and walking feet vs stop talking and quit running. Offering children positive feedback for following rules and expectations, using social stories to teach and practice social skills etc. Vanderbilt has a great site just Google "Vanderbilt social emotional" and check it out.

I've worked with rather violent students who tried to strangle me and others, spat upon others, threw furniture and feces and all sorts of stuff. There are usually "quiet rooms" in schools and I've also evacuated entire classrooms because a student was being unsafe.

Rarely, but it's happened, a child was restrained but it was always part of a written plan everyone agreed upon before implementation.

But striking a child? Never.

 

[human]

agreed...it is a control technique,

im just curious as to what you would suggest doing if a child in a school misbehaves?.....won't do what he/her is told, talks back to a teacher, swears at a teacher, throws food at a teacher, runs out of class, runs out of the school, throws desks and chairs around the classroom, etc etc.....what is your suggestion if a teacher can not touch a child?.....i have seen all of the above happen first hand....so what would you do?

Here is only one example. The newsletter ACE’s, Adverse Childhood Experiences is chock full of information and ideas.

https://acestoohigh.com/2012/04/23/...oach-to-school-discipline-expulsions-drop-85/

Discipline at Lincoln High School in Walla Walla, WA, he was blown away. Because it worked.

In fact, it worked so well that he never went back to the Old Approach to Student Discipline.

This is how it went down: A student blows up at a teacher, drops the F-bomb. The usual approach at Lincoln – and, safe to say, at most high schools in this country – is automatic suspension.

Instead, Sporleder sits the kid down and says quietly: “Wow. Are you OK? This doesn’t sound like you. What’s going on?” He gets even more specific: “You really looked stressed. On a scale of 1-10, where are you with your anger?”

The kid was ready. Ready, man! For an anger blast to his face….”How could you do that?” “What’s wrong with you?”…and for the big boot out of school. But he was NOT ready for kindness. The armor-plated defenses melt like ice under a blowtorch and the words pour out: “My dad’s an alcoholic. He’s promised me things my whole life and never keeps those promises.” The waterfall of words that go deep into his home life, which is no piece of breeze, end with this sentence: “I shouldn’t have blown up at the teacher.”

 

[Ibiz]

it's a shame when we take power out of the hands of adults, and place it in the hands of children

This is ABSOLUTLY correct. We see this all to often where the child has complete control, and the parents are just there to serve them. Do their homework, drive them around.

Now the school teachers are being told that the students are in charge. The teachers should just sit at their desk, keep quiet, be seen, not heard.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The facts as we know them now is that she assaulted him for refusing to stand for the pledge of allegiance, which is his/her right according to the rules. She was not allowed to punish him/her for this in any way.

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The fact is that the teacher was "accused" of assaulting a student. We don't know that she did assault the student.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

The fact is that the teacher was "accused" of assaulting a student. We don't know that she did assault the student.

Yes, but it is a fact that she has been put on leave pending investigation of these allegations, and it's also a fact that thus far we've not been informed of any mitigating circumstances or counter arguments (such as the student acting out in other ways).

So we only know that the alleged assault is said to have occurred in response to something she did not have the right to punish a student for at all - in any way.

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[flourish]

This is ABSOLUTLY correct. We see this all to often where the child has complete control, and the parents are just there to serve them. Do their homework, drive them around.

Now the school teachers are being told that the students are in charge. The teachers should just sit at their desk, keep quiet, be seen, not heard.

Where did you see instructions for teachers "being told that the students are in charge?" Weird that was never mentioned in undergrad or graduate school... double checking... Yep I have a master's degree in teaching...nope never was taught that! Reviewing job descriptions... nope not there either... Please do share your source!

 

[katydid23]

Actually, it's clear cut that teacher broke the rules.

How so?

There was an accusation. As far as I know, INNOCENT until proven Guilty. And she hasn't even been charged with anything, nor fired, nor demoted.

 

[NSS]

I lived in the US for 12 years. I never stood for the pledge.
I stood and sang (without hand on heart) the anthem as a mark of respect.

I couldn't pledge allegiance to a 'flag', my allegiance is to my family.
I was never assaulted for it and neither were my kids.

 

[foleybrau]

In recent times, the kneeling started in response to police brutality. From my observation, the kneelers are aware of why they are kneeling. jmo

Plus, where is this information coming from that a student in this case knelt?? Got a link for that or is this an assumption?

jmo

I think this is mainly due to the proliferation of guns in the US. Cops are on edge because so many people have them. And gangs are so prevalent. You don't see same thing going on in the UK or Australia. Also, no stats support the assertion that blacks are impacted by police brutality more than non blacks. It's just amplified by social media.

The premise that western societies are inherently racist (i.e. white people) is deeply flawed. I live in Australia where the same thing is pushed. But in my daily life people of all backgrounds have the same opportunities, successes and all get along quite nicely. The media seems to live in an alternate reality.

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[flourish]

Here is only one example. The newsletter ACE’s, Adverse Childhood Experiences is chock full of information and ideas.

https://acestoohigh.com/2012/04/23/...oach-to-school-discipline-expulsions-drop-85/

Discipline at Lincoln High School in Walla Walla, WA, he was blown away. Because it worked.

In fact, it worked so well that he never went back to the Old Approach to Student Discipline.

This is how it went down: A student blows up at a teacher, drops the F-bomb. The usual approach at Lincoln – and, safe to say, at most high schools in this country – is automatic suspension.

Instead, Sporleder sits the kid down and says quietly: “Wow. Are you OK? This doesn’t sound like you. What’s going on?” He gets even more specific: “You really looked stressed. On a scale of 1-10, where are you with your anger?”

The kid was ready. Ready, man! For an anger blast to his face….”How could you do that?” “What’s wrong with you?”…and for the big boot out of school. But he was NOT ready for kindness. The armor-plated defenses melt like ice under a blowtorch and the words pour out: “My dad’s an alcoholic. He’s promised me things my whole life and never keeps those promises.” The waterfall of words that go deep into his home life, which is no piece of breeze, end with this sentence: “I shouldn’t have blown up at the teacher.”

You mean the teacher took a situation and made it a teaching opportunity?!? Holy biscuits, Batman! What a concept!!

 

[katydid23]

Yes, but it is a fact that she has been put on leave pending investigation of these allegations, and it's also a fact that thus far we've not been informed of any mitigating circumstances or counter arguments (such as the student acting out in other ways).

So we only know that the alleged assault is said to have occurred in response to something she did not have the right to punish a student for at all - in any way.

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We also know that the police arrived on scene and took a report. If the student had been visibly injured in any way, with any marks, they would have arrested the teacher for assault, then and there. IMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Yes, but it is a fact that she has been put on leave pending investigation of these allegations, and it's also a fact that thus far we've not been informed of any mitigating circumstances or counter arguments (such as the student acting out in other ways).

So we only know that the alleged assault is said to have occurred in response to something she did not have the right to punish a student for at all - in any way.

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There's a lot we don't know. We have an accusation. The teacher has been put on paid leave pending an investigation. I would expect her to be put on leave that doesn't show or prove guilt imo.

We absolutely, unequivocally, without a doubt, do not know that the teacher assaulted the student unless someone is privy to inside information.

 

[Giucy]

How so?

There was an accusation. As far as I know, INNOCENT until proven Guilty. And she hasn't even been charged with anything, nor fired, nor demoted.

She is suspended. <modsnip>

 

[Deleted member 158085]

We also know that the police arrived on scene and took a report. If the student had been visibly injured in any way, with any marks, they would have arrested the teacher for assault, then and there. IMO

There is talk in twitter land, of the student being 'verbally assaulted' ....so if that is the case, then we should reevaluate, imo.

By what Twitter search? I can't find a thing regarding a verbal assault. What search terms are you using?

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[Ibiz]

Actually, it's clear cut that teacher broke the rules.

It doesn't matter what the rules are. A teacher gives an order, it should be followed. If the student felt his rights were in violation, he should have taken that up after class with a higher authority or whatnot.

It's the same in the world. If a police officer orders you to get on the ground, what do you do? Tell the officer no because you did nothing wrong? Of course not, you have to follow orders from an authority, and work out whoever is right or wrong later with the proper channels.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

It doesn't matter what the rules are. A teacher gives an order, it should be followed. If the student felt his rights were in violation, he should have taken that up after class with a higher authority or whatnot.

It's the same in the world. If a police officer orders you to get on the ground, what do you do? Tell the officer no because you did nothing wrong? Of course not, you have to follow orders from an authority, and work out whoever is right or wrong later with the proper channels.

No, no, no. By that logic, the teacher could tell them to strip and run around the football field and they should do it. <modsnip>

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[human]

Unfortunately, it is legal for a parent to strike a child in many states. And it's legal to use an object. It's just not legal to leave a mark.

Anectodal Source: I called child protection in Oregon on account of a child coming to school every day crying because his mother hit him with a belt.

I don't have time to go find a published source for ya ATM.

However, just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right or effective or acceptable or developmentally appropriate.

For every person who thinks getting hit as a child helped them become a better person there's at least that many who feel getting hit was harmful to their emotional health, psyche, etc.

As a teacher and someone with extensive experience and education in child and human development and behavior theory I'm continuously appalled at the attitude that hitting is remotely acceptable.

It took forever to address the idea that your spouse does not deserve to be hit. I hope soon that the idea that it is ok to hit children will go away.

Can you imagine if your neighbor decided to “discipline”you because he did not like the way you kept up the lawn?

 

[Deleted member 158085]

It took forever to address the idea that your spouse does not deserve to be hit. I hope soon that the idea that it is ok to hit children will go away.

Can you imagine if your neighbor decided to “discipline”you because he did not like the way you kept up the lawn?

Yeah, ask Rand Paul about that. Lol.

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[human]

If it is a verbal assault, is it OK for the teacher to call the kid names or shame? Those days should be over. We know better now. We know what shaming does to kids. I have citations, of course. Ask and ye shall receive.