CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 4

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  • #621
I just read that. It seems they are quite proficient in 'saving' people from the death penalty.

Does anyone think JH will end up on death row?


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BBM--Yes Maisiebelle, I absolutely believe that he will get the death penalty.
 
  • #622
BBM--Yes Maisiebelle, I absolutely believe that he will get the death penalty.

I'm inclined to agree. If the psychologists appointed by the court both found JH to be completely sane I can't see how the defence can show otherwise (although I'm sure they will try). He spent months planning this attack. He put a lot of thought into it.


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  • #623
I'm inclined to agree. If the psychologists appointed by the court both found JH to be completely sane I can't see how the defence can show otherwise (although I'm sure they will try). He spent months planning this attack. He put a lot of thought into it.


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Honestly, after watching the DT of another trial (AZ convict 281129) I believe that anything is possible with "experts" in the field of psychology. So, I am certain that this DT has scraped the bottom of the proverbial barrel and found psych's willing to testify; but IMO and I agree with you that the amount of planning that he engaged in, as well as his level of functioning at the time of his interview by the FBI, are more than enough evidence to dismiss the claim that JH was legally insane.

I contend that that the DT will try to muddy the waters and hope that that ONE JUROR will confuse or extrapolate JH's mental illness (which he clearly has) to the level of "insane".
 
  • #624
Honestly, after watching the DT of another trial (AZ convict 281129) I believe that anything is possible with "experts" in the field of psychology. So, I am certain that this DT has scraped the bottom of the proverbial barrel and found psych's willing to testify; but IMO and I agree with you that the amount of planning that he engaged in, as well as his level of functioning at the time of his interview by the FBI, are more than enough evidence to dismiss the claim that JH was legally insane.

I contend that that the DT will try to muddy the waters and hope that that ONE JUROR will confuse or extrapolate JH's mental illness (which he clearly has) to the level of "insane".

I agree. I can imagine that's all they can do with the amount of evidence against him. I hope the jurors see past the "muddying" tactics and make the right decision. It must be a huge pressure to be on a jury in this type of case. I'm glad it's not me.


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  • #625
Thanks for that insight. I wonder if you ever felt like you were going a bit crazy when you were so involved with your work? Did you ever feel like your tiredness affected how you interacted with other people? Did you withdraw socially when you were working so hard or did you manage to balance work/life?
For me personally, I missed a lot of events and activities, but still was able to maintain a relationship, and while I definitely became less close to some friends who weren't on the same school path as I was, I gained several close friends who were also working in labs. I'm not sure how this school had things set up, but, I had my own lab/office. And in micro there were 3 other spots like mine for students. And then we had a room for disposal, autoclaving, and general "house keeping" and then we had a conference room. Most of us bonded in the last two rooms, and would often help each other out when making plates or cleaning and we would eat together often. I never felt alone, even if it was 2am, there was a chance there would be some other poor student or professor at work.

However, I could see how someone could choose to withdraw from others if they wanted to. To me that would indicate a lack of work. We use to joke that there are two different emotions you feel during lab: elation when something was going right and frustration when you were stuck. Either way, we were always eager to either share good news or vent out our frustrations with each other because really these other students are the only people beside your professors you can relate that stuff to easily.

ETA: I will also add that it was very consuming in the sense that you think about it constantly. Projects like these often mean trekking to the lab at bizarre times to carry out parts of the experiments that are time limited...I.e. Collecting DNA as several stages, where timing is important. So there was very few times where I had a day without thinking about it or tending to my microbes. It's almost like a baby that requires constant care and attention.
 
  • #626
I'm inclined to agree. If the psychologists appointed by the court both found JH to be completely sane I can't see how the defence can show otherwise (although I'm sure they will try). He spent months planning this attack. He put a lot of thought into it.


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I agree.

I cannot see how they will be able to claim an insanity defense with all the prepration and planning.

Its not like he didnt know what he was doing.
 
  • #627
  • #628
For me personally, I missed a lot of events and activities, but still was able to maintain a relationship, and while I definitely became less close to some friends who weren't on the same school path as I was, I gained several close friends who were also working in labs. I'm not sure how this school had things set up, but, I had my own lab/office. And in micro there were 3 other spots like mine for students. And then we had a room for disposal, autoclaving, and general "house keeping" and then we had a conference room. Most of us bonded in the last two rooms, and would often help each other out when making plates or cleaning and we would eat together often. I never felt alone, even if it was 2am, there was a chance there would be some other poor student or professor at work.

However, I could see how someone could choose to withdraw from others if they wanted to. To me that would indicate a lack of work. We use to joke that there are two different emotions you feel during lab: elation when something was going right and frustration when you were stuck. Either way, we were always eager to either share good news or vent out our frustrations with each other because really these other students are the only people beside your professors you can relate that stuff to easily.

ETA: I will also add that it was very consuming in the sense that you think about it constantly. Projects like these often mean trekking to the lab at bizarre times to carry out parts of the experiments that are time limited...I.e. Collecting DNA as several stages, where timing is important. So there was very few times where I had a day without thinking about it or tending to my microbes. It's almost like a baby that requires constant care and attention.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to explain. So it seems that you generally bond as a group who have the same workload and goals. I think I heard that the group JH was in were similar to your description but he chose to keep to himself. I wonder if he chose not to get too friendly with other people just in case they found out his plan. One of my sons is very socially awkward but he does have a small group of very close friends. I read that JH had a friend he used to see once a week to eat dinner and watch Lost. So he can make friends. He just preferred not to.


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  • #629
  • #630
  • #631
I agree.

I cannot see how they will be able to claim an insanity defense with all the prepration and planning.

Its not like he didnt know what he was doing.

Things like listening to loud music to drown out the screams of the victims (didn't want that to make him stop?) and being surprised that law enforcement were outside (apartment didn't explode) and the way he interacted with Police after the event makes me think he knew exactly what he was doing.


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  • #632
That photo says it all about him doesnt it.

Bored and indifferent about his own murder trial. LOL

Is he wearing bright yellow trousers?


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  • #633
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to explain. So it seems that you generally bond as a group who have the same workload and goals. I think I heard that the group JH was in were similar to your description but he chose to keep to himself. I wonder if he chose not to get too friendly with other people just in case they found out his plan. One of my sons is very socially awkward but he does have a small group of very close friends. I read that JH had a friend he used to see once a week to eat dinner and watch Lost. So he can make friends. He just preferred not to.


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I can't imagine making it through those labs without friendships. But I do think you would have to try hard not bond with the other students. Unless you weren't really doing the work. We did have one student replaced in the program when at our monthly luncheon with the head of the department and they asked us where a student was and we had no idea who that was. Apparently they had been providing the PA with fake data and acting like they were working hard. Some people actually think they can get away without the work. But I liken it to getting on stage at a body building competition....if you haven't put in the time and work it will obvious to everyone looking at it.
 
  • #634
Is he wearing bright yellow trousers?


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Its hard to tell the color with the lighting in the photo. If I had to guess, they look like maybe tan or beige docker type.
 
  • #635
Its hard to tell the color with the lighting in the photo. If I had to guess, they look like maybe tan or beige docker type.

What isn't hard to tell is how much weight he has gained...MOO! (Pun completely intentional LOLOL)
 
  • #636
I can't imagine making it through those labs without friendships. But I do think you would have to try hard not bond with the other students. Unless you weren't really doing the work. We did have one student replaced in the program when at our monthly luncheon with the head of the department and they asked us where a student was and we had no idea who that was. Apparently they had been providing the PA with fake data and acting like they were working hard. Some people actually think they can get away without the work. But I liken it to getting on stage at a body building competition....if you haven't put in the time and work it will obvious to everyone looking at it.

Maybe JH thought he was much cleverer than everyone else and thought he was above them (narcissistic perhaps). He seems to have gotten a bit of a shock when he didn't do so well at the university. The fact that he walked out of the programme shows he can't take criticism. They were willing to let him stay and redo the assessments but he preferred to just leave.


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  • #637
I can't imagine making it through those labs without friendships. But I do think you would have to try hard not bond with the other students. Unless you weren't really doing the work. We did have one student replaced in the program when at our monthly luncheon with the head of the department and they asked us where a student was and we had no idea who that was. Apparently they had been providing the PA with fake data and acting like they were working hard. Some people actually think they can get away without the work. But I liken it to getting on stage at a body building competition....if you haven't put in the time and work it will obvious to everyone looking at it.

It is interesting to me to hear about lab work. I love lab work and I have always wanted to nail a job where I could be a lab assistant or something.

I know there are different types and such. The kind I enjoy are where there are experiments or testing of chemical solutions.

I just enjoy mixing stuff and watching reactions and even things like DNA testing and the sort. I would love to someday get a job in a lab.

Some people probably think it is a little boring but to me it is very exciting stuff.
Even normal type testing and stuff is exciting to me. I dont have to cure cancer or anything. I would be happy doing blood or DNA analsysis in a lab.

Back in college days, I always enjoyed my courses that had a lab portion. They were always more exciting to me than just the book part.
Hands-on stuff I really enjoyed.
 
  • #638
What isn't hard to tell is how much weight he has gained...MOO! (Pun completely intentional LOLOL)

He has definitely *ahem* filled out somewhat!


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  • #639
Channel 2 KWGN ‏@channel2kwgn · 38s39 seconds ago
#TheaterShooting court is back up on the live stream/blog. Watch here: http://kwgn.com/live

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Will C. Holden ‏@will_c_holden · 52s53 seconds ago
#TheaterShooting court is back up on the live stream/blog. Watch here: http://link.kdvr.com/1E3Ilb4



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Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 7m7 minutes ago
Here's the calendar found on JH's bedroom wall. FBI agent testified about it yesterday. #theatershooting
 
  • #640
It is interesting to me to hear about lab work. I love lab work and I have always wanted to nail a job where I could be a lab assistant or something.

I know there are different types and such. The kind I enjoy are where there are experiments or testing of chemical solutions.

I just enjoy mixing stuff and watching reactions and even things like DNA testing and the sort. I would love to someday get a job in a lab.

Some people probably think it is a little boring but to me it is very exciting stuff.
Even normal type testing and stuff is exciting to me. I dont have to cure cancer or anything. I would be happy doing blood or DNA analsysis in a lab.

Back in college days, I always enjoyed my courses that had a lab portion. They were always more exciting to me than just the book part.
Hands-on stuff I really enjoyed.

The thing that gets me is he could have done so much good with his abilities. IF he had a mental illness he could have relieved treatment and continued with his chosen career. Who knows what he could have achieved. Instead he chose another path which let to utter devastation and destruction :(


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