CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 7

[Hatfield]

Asperger's is not actually recgnized in the latest DSM anymore. It is all Autism Spectrum Disorder now. He would be classified as autistic with his degree autism depending on his level of functioning. Those that you would think of as having Asperger's would usually be referred to as high functioning autism.

The doctor asked him what kind of music he liked and he said Techno music and he mentioned about liking the beat + rhythm of it.

Would that fall in line with what is commonly seen in some Autism or Asperger patients?

A lot of people like that kind of music so its nothing that can indicate a definite thing one way or another. Just curious if it is commonly seen in those kinds of patients or maybe no correlation whatsoever to liking loud rhythmic music.

 

[carson456]

The doctor asked him what kind of music he liked and he said Techno music and he mentioned about liking the beat + rhythm of it.

Would that fall in line with what is commonly seen in some Autism or Asperger patients?

A lot of people like that kind of music so its nothing that can indicate a definite thing one way or another. Just curious if it is commonly seen in those kinds of patients or maybe no correlation whatsoever to liking loud rhythmic music.

I have no idea. I'm a nurse but I am definitely not an expert on mental health disorders.

 

[Hatfield]

I have no idea. I'm a nurse but I am definitely not an expert on mental health disorders.

Im not sure either.

I wondered about it because I saw on TV once where a person who had Aspergers liked to "rock" his chair back and forth and was just wondering if maybe a steady loud beat of music would be kind of the same sort of thing that maybe those type of patients may be common with.

 

[bamacurious]

I haven't been on here in a while but I have been watching this trial and something has been eating at me and I just need to say it out loud. First of all, I thought the interviewer (psych.) today interviewing James Holmes was excellent. I'm actually interested in hearing the rest of the 22 hours. Second, I found Holmes to be very logical, sane, and even socially appropriate when you would expect one to be. Introverted yes. Probably on the spectrum of Asperger's somewhere...but not insane. I expected more anger about his family, or coldness...but the only thing I noticed was a hesitation to really talk about girls and a lack of a successful girl/guy relationship. (he seemed really hesitant to discuss this, but the failed 'romantic" dinner he made for Valentine's day, down to lighting good smelling candles, struck me as an immature geeky guy in search of a girlfriend.) I even got that feeling in reading his notebook yesterday. I can't help but feel like he was somewhat successful in California...hs and college, but when he moves away and strikes out on his own, he fails. He's angry at the world, and where can you go and kill a lot of happy people...couples especially...but a movie theater? And chances there would be small children in a theater after midnight? Probably small in his mind. (hence the statement he made about hoping there weren't any children that he shot) He was a camp counselor, he had feelings.

 

[carson456]

He certainly does not come across as someone that is manipulative and adept at fooling people as can be commonly seen with people with antisocial personality disorder(the ones that are commonly referred to as sociopaths).
After seeing his notebook, it completely reminds me of ramblings and odd, deranged thoughts of someone with schizophrenia. Definitely similar to some that I have encourtered as a nurse in a mental health facility. Especially the symbols and equations. I think it would be really hard to fake that notebook. Even the handwriting looks like his mental state is deteriorating as it progresses. It's hard to see him as the person that was capable of so much viscious murder...but I think a lot of that has to do with him currently being stabilized on medication. I believe he was suffering from a mental disorder and was psychotic and delusional but he still knew that murdering people was wrong.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I haven't been on here in a while but I have been watching this trial and something has been eating at me and I just need to say it out loud. First of all, I thought the interviewer (psych.) today interviewing James Holmes was excellent. I'm actually interested in hearing the rest of the 22 hours. Second, I found Holmes to be very logical, sane, and even socially appropriate when you would expect one to be. Introverted yes. Probably on the spectrum of Asperger's somewhere...but not insane. I expected more anger about his family, or coldness...but the only thing I noticed was a hesitation to really talk about girls and a lack of a successful girl/guy relationship. (he seemed really hesitant to discuss this, but the failed 'romantic" dinner he made for Valentine's day, down to lighting good smelling candles, struck me as an immature geeky guy in search of a girlfriend.) I even got that feeling in reading his notebook yesterday. I can't help but feel like he was somewhat successful in California...hs and college, but when he moves away and strikes out on his own, he fails. He's angry at the world, and where can you go and kill a lot of happy people...couples especially...but a movie theater? And chances there would be small children in a theater after midnight? Probably small in his mind. (hence the statement he made about hoping there weren't any children that he shot) He was a camp counselor, he had feelings.

Very good observations. Thanks for your input. I believe he also helped out at an orphanage.

Psych interview 2 years after the shootings. Unbelievable.

 

[Hatfield]

I haven't been on here in a while but I have been watching this trial and something has been eating at me and I just need to say it out loud. First of all, I thought the interviewer (psych.) today interviewing James Holmes was excellent. I'm actually interested in hearing the rest of the 22 hours. Second, I found Holmes to be very logical, sane, and even socially appropriate when you would expect one to be. Introverted yes. Probably on the spectrum of Asperger's somewhere...but not insane. I expected more anger about his family, or coldness...but the only thing I noticed was a hesitation to really talk about girls and a lack of a successful girl/guy relationship. (he seemed really hesitant to discuss this, but the failed 'romantic" dinner he made for Valentine's day, down to lighting good smelling candles, struck me as an immature geeky guy in search of a girlfriend.) I even got that feeling in reading his notebook yesterday. I can't help but feel like he was somewhat successful in California...hs and college, but when he moves away and strikes out on his own, he fails. He's angry at the world, and where can you go and kill a lot of happy people...couples especially...but a movie theater? And chances there would be small children in a theater after midnight? Probably small in his mind. (hence the statement he made about hoping there weren't any children that he shot) He was a camp counselor, he had feelings.

Good points. Thanks for sharing input. Interesting about the theory of maybe the movie theatre setting after midnight would predominantly have couples. There maybe something to that.

 

[Whiteorchids]

The doctor asked him what kind of music he liked and he said Techno music and he mentioned about liking the beat + rhythm of it.

Would that fall in line with what is commonly seen in some Autism or Asperger patients?

A lot of people like that kind of music so its nothing that can indicate a definite thing one way or another. Just curious if it is commonly seen in those kinds of patients or maybe no correlation whatsoever to liking loud rhythmic music.

My son has schizoaffective disorder and bi-polar. He will only listen to Techno music. I hate it. He listens to it so loud I can still hear it from his earbuds. The loud thumping. He said he likes that type of music because it helps drown out the voices he hears in his head. Just so sad.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Very good observations. Thanks for your input. I believe he also helped out at an orphanage.

Psych interview 2 years after the shootings. Unbelievable.

How in the heck can you know if he was insane at the time and knew right from wrong two years later.? There is no excuse for waiting so long. Especially since he was under the care of a psychiatrist up until the shooting.

 

[bamacurious]

I do think he had a major depressive disorder but I can't go as far to think of it as sociopathic yet. I think bipolar for sure. Not too sure if maybe the medications might have increased his problems...drugs like abilify and wellbutrin have been known to have bad side effects for some people...including psychosis and suicidal ideation

 

[bexlex]

Very good observations. Thanks for your input. I believe he also helped out at an orphanage.

Psych interview 2 years after the shootings. Unbelievable.

I wish the first physch had video taped.....it doesn't look good that they can't produce anything (video) for that time period....

 

[Whiteorchids]

I do think he had a major depressive disorder but I can't go as far to think of it as sociopathic yet. I think bipolar for sure. Not too sure if maybe the medications might have increased his problems...drugs like abilify and wellbutrin have been known to have bad side effects for some people...including psychosis and suicidal ideation

Yes, Wellbutrin can cause mania and aggression but not sure if he took this. Some drug addicts will crush and snort it. I just talked to a Dr about this.

 

[bamacurious]

my grand daughter is autistic and hates loud sounds, it's funny how different people can be on the spectrum...but then again, aren't we all?

 

[carson456]

That is really sad. Has he not found a medication that helps quiet the voices? I know they are pretty effective in doing that, calming the negative symptoms like hearing voices.

 

[carson456]

He wasn't prescribed Wellbutrin or Ability before the shottings. He was on setraline, an SSRI, and a benzodiazepine.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Good points. Thanks for sharing input. Interesting about the theory of maybe the movie theatre setting after midnight would predominantly have couples. There maybe something to that.

If this is related to being angry and not getting a GF because of being shy, introverted from Autism or Aspergers then this would really be like the 22 yr Elliott Roger, UCSB student in May 23 2014 mass murder in Isla Vista near Santa Barbara. He killed six and injured 14. He made all those YouTube videos about how all he wanted was a pretty girlfriend and how jealous he was of the jerks who had them.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings

 

[bamacurious]

my other thought today (I'm blonde, I only have a few) was that what if the defense uses the insanity defense knowing they won't win, but the playing of the tapes to the jury garners enough sympathy and empathy for Holmes (despite and in spite of) the monstrous thing he did, he won't get the death penalty. They essentially win.

 

[Whiteorchids]

He wasn't prescribed Wellbutrin or Ability before the shottings. He was on setraline, an SSRI, and a benzodiazepine.

That's what I thought. My Dr explained to me some anti-depressants cause more mania than others. I don't remember the other ones.

 

[Whiteorchids]

my other thought today (I'm blonde, I only have a few) was that what if the defense uses the insanity defense knowing they won't win, but the playing of the tapes to the jury garners enough sympathy and empathy for Holmes (despite and in spite of) the monstrous thing he did, he won't get the death penalty. They essentially win.

I'm blonde and had exactly the same thought. Lol.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I wish the first physch had video taped.....it doesn't look good that they can't produce anything (video) for that time period....

Yep. Defense is going to have a field day with this.