CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

[Kimberlyd125]

passengers were not use to following orders from authority figures like teachers, parents etc.

bingo!!!!!

 

[noZme]

IMO
Society needs rules & laws. We hire police to enforce laws for the betterment of everyone. Police have the authority & duty to question speeders, erratic drivers, & certainly anyone driving a stolen vehicle. If citizens respect that authority & cooperate, nobody gets shot.

I liken this to the Michael Brown fiasco. He refused to cooperate, slammed the officer & we know what happened. The same posters that argued on his behalf are singing the same tune here. I do not see the grey area. Either you are lawful or you are not. Once you step over that line, you have put yourself in a precarious situation. It's like being pregnant, there is no little bit preggo. You are or you are not. There are many cases like this that end with the stolen car causing deaths of innocents just walking or driving down the road minding their own business.

Do you who do not endorse the police action think stealing cars & joy-riding is a harmless prank?

 

[Woodland]

View attachment 68452

With all due respect, we don't know if the degree of the turn on the wheels happened as a result of the driver driving at an officer standing at the fence, or if when the driver was shot, she turned the wheel as a result of no control over her actions. Look forward to someone taking the stand in court and saying exactly what the degree of turn on the wheels mean, or various reasons for it.

Imo, still have to consider the lack of damage to the fence - it was not rammed. Have to think this will play a roll in court. Jmo.

 

[Woodland]

IMO
Society needs rules & laws. We hire police to enforce laws for the betterment of everyone. Police have the authority & duty to question speeders, erratic drivers, & certainly anyone driving a stolen vehicle. If citizens respect that authority & cooperate, nobody gets shot.

I liken this to the Michael Brown fiasco. He refused to cooperate, slammed the officer & we know what happened. The same posters that argued on his behalf are singing the same tune here. I do not see the grey area. Either you are lawful or you are not. Once you step over that line, you have put yourself in a precarious situation. It's like being pregnant, there is no little bit preggo. You are or you are not. There are many cases like this that end with the stolen car causing deaths of innocents just walking or driving down the road minding their own business.

Do you who do not endorse the police action think stealing cars & joy-riding is a harmless prank?

Well, with this argument, why did LE leave anyone alive in the vehicle in question here? Why not take them all 'out' to avoid future problems? Or are there are rules for LE in this type of situation? Don't know - don't live in the US. However, LE in Canada likes to follow the lead of LE in the US - personally don't want to see such situations here over teens in a stolen vehicle. Ironically, many adults commit insurance fraud - especially where vehicles are concerned. Imo, would prefer to see them 'taken out' as it effects my rates. Jmo.

 

[Yoda]

bbm

For sake of discussion, let's say car was registered to either 1- Jessica's parent(s) or 2- Patty Passenger's parent(s),
neither of whom had given permission to Jessica or Patty to drive it.
Is parent reporting car as stolen, different from John Doe - stranger to Jessica & all in car -reporting vehicle as stolen?

After reporting stolen vehicle to 'get back' or 'teach a lesson' to Jessica or Patty, can parent reasonably expect
LEO stopping car should announce to driver & those in car -
'Before I ask for operator license & registration, if any of you borrowed relative's car without permission, pls be so kind as to speak up now,
because if that's what happened, then we/LE know it's an innocent joyride, or at worst a miscommunication,
and there will be no further questions, no arrests, above all, no shooting. We'll buy ice cream for all, then drop each of you at home.
OTOH, if you are using stranger's vehicle without permission, none of that applies.'

Yoda or anyone,
Sometimes I'm dense but do not think that's what Yoda's implying - re teen using car without permission.
Pls, explain significance of parent/owner - vs stranger - reporting car as stolen.

Redded by me.
A few years ago, or possibly several years ago, I remember reading where a teen died from a parent calling to report the car stolen (the son had taken it against parents objections). I don't remember the exact details, I'll google and try to find it. I believe the teen died from a car accident caused by him fleeing police. I do remember the parent being very upset at police. The parent just wanted the teen and car back.
I do wonder if information gets passed on. When searching a license plate, do details come up or does it just say stolen? Maybe there should be another category for stolen vehicle, such as borrowed without permission. :shrug:
Off to find the article.

That was quick:

Iowa police shoot teen dead after father reports stolen car to teach him a lesson

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/7/iowa-police-shoot-teen-dead-after-father-calls-cop/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tyler-c...thorities-to-report-the-teen-stole-his-truck/

 

[MyBelle]

With all due respect, we don't know if the degree of the turn on the wheels happened as a result of the driver driving at an officer standing at the fence, or if when the driver was shot, she turned the wheel as a result of no control over her actions. Look forward to someone taking the stand in court and saying exactly what the degree of turn on the wheels mean, or various reasons for it.

Imo, still have to consider the lack of damage to the fence - it was not rammed. Have to think this will play a roll in court. Jmo.

Golly, could it be the officer's body sustained the damage instead of the fence? Who is the Court going to find more credible? The officers or the possible accomplices in the stolen car? I doubt there will be an expert witness called to testify about degree of turned tires. This photo shows the sharp angle and the only way to achieve that angle is intentionally.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Redded by me.
A few years ago, or possibly several years ago, I remember reading where a teen died from a parent calling to report the car stolen (the son had taken it against parents objections). I don't remember the exact details, I'll google and try to find it. I believe the teen died from a car accident caused by him fleeing police. I do remember the parent being very upset at police. The parent just wanted the teen and car back.
I do wonder if information gets passed on. When searching a license plate, do details come up or does it just say stolen? Maybe there should be another category for stolen vehicle, such as borrowed without permission. :shrug:
Off to find the article.

That was quick:



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/7/iowa-police-shoot-teen-dead-after-father-calls-cop/

The police aren't substitute parents. Such tactics may have worked in the 60's but times have changed significantly.

Years ago a mother in a small community near my city phoned village police and reported her son was violent in the hope a visit would "scare him straight." Her son greeted police with a raised knife. They shot and killed him.

JMO

 

[Yoda]

The police aren't substitute parents. Such tactics may have worked in the 60's but times have changed significantly.

Years ago a mother in a small community near my city phoned village police and reported her son was violent in the hope a visit would "scare him straight." Her son greeted police with a raised knife. They shot and killed him.

JMO

BBM Completely agree!

 

[MyBelle]

Well, with this argument, why did LE leave anyone alive in the vehicle in question here? Why not take them all 'out' to avoid future problems? Or are there are rules for LE in this type of situation? Don't know - don't live in the US. However, LE in Canada likes to follow the lead of LE in the US - personally don't want to see such situations here over teens in a stolen vehicle. Ironically, many adults commit insurance fraud - especially where vehicles are concerned. Imo, would prefer to see them 'taken out' as it effects my rates. Jmo.

I think LE rules permit them to use force only to remove the threat. The vehicle was the weapon. If the occupants of the car weren't pointing weapons, they weren't a threat.

JMO

 

[nrdsb4]

The police aren't substitute parents. Such tactics may have worked in the 60's but times have changed significantly.

Years ago a mother in a small community near my city phoned village police and reported her son was violent in the hope a visit would "scare him straight." Her son greeted police with a raised knife. They shot and killed him.

JMO

That exact thing happened yesterday in Fort Worth, though I don't know that the mother called the police out of a desire to teach him a lesson. When the police arrived, he shot one of them through a bedroom door. You shoot a cop, you are probably dead.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article8605565.html

 

[Elley Mae]

Teen killed by police previously cited for resisting arrest

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-01-30-16-59-06

 

[Woodland]

Golly, could it be the officer's body sustained the damage instead of the fence? Who is the Court going to find more credible? The officers or the possible accomplices in the stolen car? I doubt there will be an expert witness called to testify about degree of turned tires. This photo shows the sharp angle and the only way to achieve that angle is intentionally.

JMO

With all due respect, you have not presented any evidence on your statement. Others see it differently - so evidence would help. Jmo.

 

[Woodland]

The police aren't substitute parents. Such tactics may have worked in the 60's but times have changed significantly.

Years ago a mother in a small community near my city phoned village police and reported her son was violent in the hope a visit would "scare him straight." Her son greeted police with a raised knife. They shot and killed him.

JMO

Sounds like a solution to all LE problems? So why are some saying no? Maybe I'll change sides - kill everyone that is different? Help me out here.

 

[Woodland]

I think LE rules permit them to use force only to remove the threat. The vehicle was the weapon. If the occupants of the car weren't pointing weapons, they weren't a threat.

JMO

With all due respect, no one knows that at the moment.

 

[MyBelle]

With all due respect, you have not presented any evidence on your statement. Others see it differently - so evidence would help. Jmo.

I cited the photograph posted upthread by Yoda in answer to your hypothetical court case. There currently is no court case and I doubt there will be a court case.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

With all due respect, no one knows that at the moment.

Didn't the officers have eyes? It was their judgment call to make and they made it.

 

[Woodland]

I cited the photograph posted upthread by Yoda in answer to your hypothetical court case. There currently is no court case and I doubt there will be a court case.

JMO

Done deal then.

 

[Woodland]

Didn't the officers have eyes? It was their judgment call to make and they made it.

With all due respect the question is, did LE make the right call? They have rules - not firing at a moving vehicle is one of them. That rule was contravened - was it justified? It seems the officer that was hit with the vehicle, may have been hit after the driver was shot. No one here has all the facts - just yet.

 

[MyBelle]

With all due respect the question is, did LE make the right call? They have rules - not firing at a moving vehicle is one of them. That rule was contravened - was it justified? It seems the officer that was hit with the vehicle, may have been hit after the driver was shot. No one here has all the facts - just yet.

You are incorrect. There is no rule prohibiting the firing at a moving vehicle.

Department policy encourages officers to move out of the way of a moving car rather than use their firearm. But it also allows them to shoot if they have no other reasonable way to prevent death or serious injury.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/3...eview-moving-car-shootings-over-past-2-years/

 

[Kimberlyd125]

With all due respect, no one knows that at the moment.

Her post started with "I think".
So that makes it an opinion. Not that anybody "knows" it.