CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

[Kimberlyd125]

Teen killed by police previously cited for resisting arrest

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-01-30-16-59-06

Wow. 3 weeks ago. And her license was already revoked.
IMO this girl had no respect for the law.
Jan. 1
- speeding after her license had been revoked.
-driving 80 mph in a 55 mph
-she was resisting arrest in a way that risked serious injury to him or others

 

[Woodland]

Some new details are coming out.
Officers reportedly asked the teens to exit vehicle.
officers fired when vehicle moved towards initial officer. It seems the officer was not struck before shots were fired.


"Moments before opening fire on a car full of teenagers, two Denver police officers asked several times for those inside to get out after learning the car had been reported stolen, Police Chief Robert White said Wednesday.
"At some point, the original officer that responded to the scene, the vehicle started driving toward him, which pretty much had him between a car and a brick wall and a fence," White said in an interview with The Denver Post. "Out of fear for his safety, he fired several shots and the other officer also fired several shots.""

"Jordan's leg was fractured during Monday's incident, White said."


http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27412773/denver-police-id-officers-fatal-shooting-unarmed-teen

Well, wrong as far as no rule prohibiting the firing at a moving vehicle by Denver Police should be taken up with the Denver Post for putting forward that it is prohibited. From post #38 and has been linked after that.

 

[Yoda]

Well, wrong as far as no rule prohibiting the firing at a moving vehicle by Denver Police should be taken up with the Denver Post for putting forward that it is prohibited. From post #38 and has been linked after that.

Im so confused. Apologies in advance, my train of thought must be on a different track than yours right now. Is your response replying to what I posted, or did you link my post to qualify something you posted up thread? TIA

 

[Kimberlyd125]

She's gone now, so a good thing for society, I guess.

She's gone now due to her own actions.
She made horrible choices. She was a criminal who thought she was above the law.

As a parent of a 17 year old daughter, I have to ask... WHERE WERE THE PARENTS?
Not just that day. I mean in the daily life of their child.

She was out of control. She needed guidance.

My 17 year old is forced to face consequences of her actions. She has been taught to respect authority. She's not perfect, but she damn sure isn't out smoking weed, drinking, speeding with a revoked license, fleeing from LE, resisting arrest... Because I won't allow it.

JMO

 

[Yoda]

Chuckles - not frustrated with one wing or another - just have a problem with LE executing unarmed citizens. Maybe it's just me.

JMO. I think everyone here has a problem with anyone killing another person. We only know the facts that we can glean from photos and online. At this moment, we know the thief's vehicle struck an officer, the officer was injured, the thief is dead. An investigation is being done. If it finds the thief drove towards the officer then I do not consider her unarmed.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Chuckles - not frustrated with one wing or another - just have a problem with LE executing unarmed citizens. Maybe it's just me.

She was armed with about 3,000 lbs of stolen steel. Cars kill more people than guns.

She wasn't "executed".
GMAB

 

[Woodland]

Im so confused. Apologies in advance, my train of thought must be on a different track than yours right now. Is your response replying to what I posted, or did you link my post to qualify something you posted up thread? TIA

Chuckles Yoda - the post was in response to post #159 - a discrepancy over whether Denver PD have an existing policy to fire or not fire at moving vehicles. You just happened to have posted an article that says they cannot.

 

[CoolJ]

Chuckles - not frustrated with one wing or another - just have a problem with LE executing unarmed citizens. Maybe it's just me.

I'm with you. I am one to wait for the facts especially when a young life is lost. If it is found after an unbiased investigation that she was aiming to run over police, then we can say it was a justified shooting because it was the only option. If she was merely trying to get away then I believe the police made the wrong decision and should be charged or reprimanded accordingly. IMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I'm so glad I had parents who taught me about the important things in life. About doing what is right. About respecting authority. And I hope I have been successful in teaching my daughter those same things.

 

[Yoda]

She's gone now due to her own actions.
She made horrible choices. She was a criminal who thought she was above the law.

As a parent of a 17 year old daughter, I have to ask... WHERE WERE THE PARENTS?
Not just that day. I mean in the daily life of their child.

She was out of control. She needed guidance.

My 17 year old is forced to face consequences of her actions. She has been taught to respect authority. She's not perfect, but she damn sure isn't out smoking weed, drinking, speeding with a revoked license, fleeing from LE, resisting arrest... Because I won't allow it.

JMO

Thank you. It's sad that people don't understand the importance of being a responsible parent.

 

[al66pine]

From my earlier post:
"re teen using car without permission....significance of parent/owner - vs stranger - reporting car as stolen."

....reading where a teen died from a parent calling to report the car stolen (the son had taken it against parents objections). believe the teen died.... I do remember the parent being very upset at police.
The parent just wanted the teen and car back.
I do wonder if information gets passed on. When searching a license plate, do details come up or does it just say stolen? Maybe there should be another category for stolen vehicle, such as borrowed without permission. :shrug:....
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/7/iowa-police-shoot-teen-dead-after-father-calls-cop/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tyler-c...thorities-to-report-the-teen-stole-his-truck/

. bbm sbm

Linked article has so little info about Iowa case I hesitate to comment.
AFAIK, no MSM yet about whether car Jessica stole belonged to a passenger's parent - or by total stranger-
so may or may not be relevant to Jessica's death. But as Yoda raised an interesting question, here we go.
If anyone wants to discuss this issue further, maybe I s/take this to a new thread downstairs.

bbm 1
Iowa case is a tragic result for family and LE. Of course parents just wanted teen & truck back.
I wonder why Iowa teen 's parent(s) did not go looking for son taking father's truck w/out permission, to go buy ciggies.
Or why not wait until son returned home w truck, then 'deal' w son in a manner they thought appropriate?
If this was a family matter, why not handle as a fam matter? Isn't that a parent's job?
(We don't have all the info, so maybe unknown-to-us circumstances compelled them to call 911. IDK)

If Iowa parents wanted to report as police matter (& they did), then PDs have policies & procedures to follow for reported criminal acts.
Those LE P&Ps are different from (most? all?) parents' P&Ps for handling (whatever action).

Would any parent tell LE 'My teen borrowed car w'out permission, follow regular P&Ps, which might involve your shooting him.'
Per P&P, LE actions vary depending on teen's actions when LE approaches.
Should parent reporting crime committed by their teen be able to dictate LE's P&P for handling that teen?
(Sarc) 'When you find him & truck, let him drive home, you-LEOs following, but stop to treat him to ice cream cone.'

bbm2
If local LE establishes another category -'borrowed without permission' BWP distinct from 'stolen vehicle 'SV
then LE's P&Ps for handling BWP suspect would be different from regular SV. Chase or no-chase? etc.
Who determines whether 911 call is BWP or SV - person phoning 911? dispatch? LE in field?
If parent says 'I think he'll bring it back' it's BWP, why classify as crime, when it's something less, a family issue?:worms:
Sorry, got carried away, ending ramble.

O/T: Brings to mind ppl calling 911 saying they were shorted by one McNugget or got too much ketchup on BigMac. Is it a matter for LE?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Thank you. It's sad that people don't understand the importance of being a responsible parent.

I agree. And those same people who can't take the time to be bothered teaching their kids to be upstanding citizens want to shout "PROTEST" when one of the unguided children get themselves in trouble or killed.

The world seems so backwards to me at times. It's scary.

 

[Montjoy]

I'm so glad I had parents who taught me about the important things in life. About doing what is right. About respecting authority. And I hope I have been successful in teaching my daughter those same things.

While I think that it is often a good thing to respect authority, let's not forget that many atrocities have happened precisely because people have respected authority. <modsnip> So it is not a simple matter.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Does anyone ever wonder why you hear about these LEO involved shootings primarily here in the US? Justified or no, there seems to be a systemic problem and to blame it all on the criminals is irresponsible and naive at best and dangerous at worse. Something has got to change!

 

[Harmony 2]

mod note: Please stay on topic... Take discussion about politics to the designated area of the forum. Thanks

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I agree that something has to change here in America.
We need more respect for authority.
We need more consequences for bad behavior.
We need to quit giving in to protestors who stand up for people who obviously caused their own circumstances.

<modsnip>

all just my opinion.

 

[al66pine]

.... Look forward to someone taking the stand in court and saying exactly what the degree of turn on the wheels mean, or various reasons for it.....consider the lack of damage to the fence - it was not rammed. Jmo.

sbm bbm

bbm1
Yes, looking forward to high res photos, forensic reports, whether in court or through other public info release.

bbm2
Lack of damage to fence? IDK.
1. Front bumper touches two fence panels (~right angle to ea other), attached to corner post, which may h/bn knocked askew a bit.
2. Short fence panel touching bumper is split from corner post ('listing to port') from bumper on up & is no longer at 90 deg. angle to brick wall.
^Both are consistent w car's impact being more than a mere car tap into fence.

3. Look at fence panels 'vertical seams' where (probably 6' or 8') sections are attached, esp. gap 1'-2' to left of garbage can in alley.
That 'vertical seam' gap or split is bigger than other seams to right of garbage can.
Fwiw, appears fence on lot car ran into is newer (lighter-colored, less-weathered) than fence at lot to left & behind car.

Agreeing, car's impact was not strong enough to knock corner post to ground, did not flatten fence panels to ground,
but appears to have impacted enough to cause damage to fence at that corner, imo.
What injuries would/might have been inflicted on a person standing between car & fence (if that's what happened).

Not a MVA reconstructionist & don't play one on TV or W/S, just observing fence features in pix.

This pix seems to be the best depiction of car wheels angles, but it's not very clear to me.
Anybody w engineering expertise who could add to discussion?

 

[Yoda]

THis is the only photo I can find that has an evidence marker. Just FYI.

 

[al66pine]

So she was driving on suspended and had just been released on stolen car charges---
that tells me that she was pretty desperate when she was stopped this time....

bbm

Pretty desperate for being stopped again? Not sure about that. Another interp - she was quite confidant?
Per link below:
No date ----- offense for which her license was revoked (suspended, per other MSM). No big deal, no prob, keep driving.
Jan 1 ------ stopped for speeding w license already revoked? No prob.
" ----- Per other MSM, mother said Jessica was arrested for stealing car. No prob.
" ------ Her resisting arrest caused risk of serious injury to LE or others. No prob.
Jan 25?-26 ---stole a car again? No prob.
Jan 26 ------ Presumably failed to comply w orders to stop? No prob, just ignore.
" --------- Presumably either tried to drive away or injure LE. No prob, still self-assured & confidant until she was shot.

katy,
Imo, w those actions, on Jan 26, I w/be very desperate. I bet you w/be desperate too. Ditto, most everyone, virtually all here.
Jessica? Desperate? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe confidant. IDK.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Am I misinterpreting sequence of events from article, or was reporting here less than clear?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-01-30-16-59-06 Jan 30
"State troopers cited Jessica Hernandez on Jan. 1 for speeding down a highway north of Denver in her mother's car
after the girl's driver's license had been revoked.The citation shows Hernandez was driving 80 mph in a 55 mph zone,
and the trooper noted that she was resisting arrest in a way that risked serious injury to him or others.
It does not provide other details of the case."

 

[katydid23]

She's gone now due to her own actions.
She made horrible choices. She was a criminal who thought she was above the law.

As a parent of a 17 year old daughter, I have to ask... WHERE WERE THE PARENTS?
Not just that day. I mean in the daily life of their child.

She was out of control. She needed guidance.

My 17 year old is forced to face consequences of her actions. She has been taught to respect authority. She's not perfect, but she damn sure isn't out smoking weed, drinking, speeding with a revoked license, fleeing from LE, resisting arrest... Because I won't allow it.

JMO

Also, the mom said her daughter had just been released from jail, after being accused of stealing a car. So why was her kid out joyriding with her friends in a stolen car? Didn't they ground her at the very least?