CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

[Fred Hall]

And this is what we now tell are teens when not complying to LE when they have guns drawn on them.

Do we now just let our kids not take responsibility for basic things that should have been known.

These were not 13 year olds fresh out of a suburban middle school. Jmo.

The fact that a person is irresponsible and fails to comply does not legally justify their killing.

 

[Montjoy]

You really think these officers WANTED to shoot a 17 yr old girl?

Probably not. But lots of LE really don't care at all about the public.

This is from a very well respected article in a very well respected magazine:

"Morrison said that officers were socialized to be cynical about civilians. “We’re taught to almost dehumanize them,” she said. “It just got to the point where it’s, like, they’re a piece of s***. We don’t care if they raped a baby or were speeding in traffic—everybody’s a piece of s***.” Early in her career, she was often injured, because she fought with people while arresting them. Then she took a forty-hour course offered by the department in crisis-intervention training, a model used by many police departments to help officers communicate with suspects, particularly those who are mentally ill. She never got injured on duty again. She became a senior instructor in the class, but it was held in low regard by many of her colleagues. By 2007, fewer than thirty officers were taking the course each year."


http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased

 

[Fred Hall]

So what. You cannot use deadly force on a car thief.

I can if they threaten my life, and if Officer Jordan's life was threatened, mine would be too if I were standing in the same location and the car was approaching me in the same way.

 

[KaaBoom]

Yes, it is dangerous no matter which tactic they use. But it is safer to walk up with guns drawn, and eyes on the car windows.

Nonsense. That is counter to all current police training. Have you even heard of a Felony Stop?

 

[DexterMorgan]

I can if they threaten my life, and if Officer Jordan's life was threatened, mine would be too if I were standing in the same location and the car was approaching me in the same way.

You are agreeing with Katydid23. Even though you replied to her statement from its true context.

Btw. 53 pages.

We was suppose to be on a new thread. 10 pages ago.

MODS.

 

[Fred Hall]

You are agreeing with Katydid23. Even though you replied to her statement from its true context.

Btw. 53 pages.

We was suppose to be on a new thread. 10 pages ago.

MODS.

The mods also need to correct the title of this thread. It reads "CO-Jessica-Hernandez-17-killed-by-police-after-LEO-struck-by-stolen-car". This is incorrect, as no officer was struck.

 

[DexterMorgan]

The fact that a person is irresponsible and fails to comply does not legally justify their killing.

I am not justifying anything. If it was my daughter. I would have questions as well.

But if my son was the cop and pulled the trigger. Than I would try to see it his way as well.

Perception comes from experiences.

So people like to guess others perceived intentions.

I just try to use my common sense and move on.

But between the OJ and Casey Anthony juries. There is no telling how adults would perceive things as well.

Jmo

 

[DexterMorgan]

Remember the mother was on national tv for pulling her masked son from the Freddie Grey Baltimore riots.

Lmao.

He probably would never try nothing like that again.

It's very hard to consider yourself a person who doesn't care when everyone knows that your mom spanked you on national tv in front your friends and helped you not get caught up.

Sometimes this is needed to help our kids disassociate themselves from others who think that a certain lifestyle or acts are cool.

The girl thought stealing a car and running from the law was fun or at minimum there isn't going to be hard repercussions.

But hopefully others will see that the risk is not worth it.

Now if your son was the cop. You would think differently.

If your daughter was the driver. You would think differently.

This tells us that no matter the outcome.

People need to stop going off impulse from the beginning. Because others may go off impulse at the end.


So maybe they need a curriculum starting at Junior High school that teaches cause and effect from certain impulses that kids pick up from friends, movies, family, music, music videos ,news outlets, etc.
Jmo

 

[katydid23]

Nonsense. That is counter to all current police training. Have you even heard of a Felony Stop?

Wait. Didn't you tell me that the best way these cops could have handled this was to walk up to the car, without weapons drawn, and politely ask the driver to step out of the car?

 

[DexterMorgan]

Wait. Didn't you tell me that the best way these cops could have handled this was to walk up to the car, without weapons drawn, and politely ask the driver to step out of the car?

Agree. A car is somewhat like a bullet depending on how close things are.

It is hard to say if the person is going to just try and scare you in order to flee. Or if they are going to actually gun or run you down in order to flee.

When it comes to a split second thought. You go with safety first.

Is the car going to go around me? Or is the car going to gun for me?

Who knows.

But I can't take that chance.

Several warnings given.

1 life to live.

And I'm not dying because of some mishap of a joyrider who doesn't know when to say enough is enough.

So we truly need to teach our kids and their friends right from wrong before a certain age.

It takes a village.

BTW. IT'S ALL FUN AND GAMES UNTIL YOUR LOVED ONE IS KILLED BY SOME ONE WHO THOUGHT IT WAS ALL ABOUT FUN AND GAMES.

 

[katydid23]

If this is representative of LE thinking - condescending/sarcastic - everyone is sunk.

If LE thinking was non-military and non-combat the approach would be different.

I am not representative of LE thinking. I am just another member at WS. But it is kind of funny to paint ME as sarcastic and condescending , after reading some of the posts upthread, like the one about the 'two types of people in the world,' for example, ....but whatever.

How can LE possibly be non-combative when there are thousands of criminals running around wanting to fight with them?

 

[katydid23]

The fact that a person is irresponsible and fails to comply does not legally justify their killing.

No, but it makes it more likely that they will be injured or killed because if they do not comply, the cop is going to force the issue. And that amps up the situation considerably.

 

[KaaBoom]

Seriously? If you were a cop, your number one priority would be returning people's property back to them, above your own safety? Oh OK...good luck with that.

Yes, thats their job. To recover stolen property and arrest people. Why should anybody get paid to get home safe? Thats every person's personal responsibility. Nobody should get paid for it. My god, talk about a sense of entitlement. I just got home safe, I think I should get paid for that. :facepalm:

Stop wasting my tax money for these people to do nothing but protect themselves.

 

[katydid23]

Probably not. But lots of LE really don't care at all about the public.

This is from a very well respected article in a very well respected magazine:

"Morrison said that officers were socialized to be cynical about civilians. “We’re taught to almost dehumanize them,” she said. “It just got to the point where it’s, like, they’re a piece of s***. We don’t care if they raped a baby or were speeding in traffic—everybody’s a piece of s***.” Early in her career, she was often injured, because she fought with people while arresting them. Then she took a forty-hour course offered by the department in crisis-intervention training, a model used by many police departments to help officers communicate with suspects, particularly those who are mentally ill. She never got injured on duty again. She became a senior instructor in the class, but it was held in low regard by many of her colleagues. By 2007, fewer than thirty officers were taking the course each year."


http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased

I am not sure that I agree that one woman's perspective means that ' lots of LE don't care about the public at all.' That kind of goes against the entire meaning behind 'Protect and Serve' the community.

As for her claim that cop's are taught to 'dehumanize' civilians, I understand but don't see it quite the same way she does. I think it is more like the way EMT's learn to compartmentalize all of the pain and misery they see. ER doctors/nurses do the same thing. If you listened in on them kidding around in the break room you would be shocked at some of the jokes/sarcasm. But it is just a way for them to emotionally deal with and survive the turmoil. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Yes, thats their job. To recover stolen property and arrest people. Why should anybody get paid to get home safe? Thats every person's personal responsibility. Nobody should get paid for it. My god, talk about a sense of entitlement. I just got home safe, I think I should get paid for that. :facepalm:

Stop wasting my tax money for these people to do nothing but protect themselves.

wow. You just got home safe and you are going to compare that to a night shift as a cop in Chicago or Detroit?

Also, you said that a cop should prioritize someone's property OVER his own life. Would you sacrifice your life to get someones stolen car back to them?

 

[KaaBoom]

"Morrison said that officers were socialized to be cynical about civilians. “We’re taught to almost dehumanize them,” she said. “It just got to the point where it’s, like, they’re a piece of s***. We don’t care if they raped a baby or were speeding in traffic—everybody’s a piece of s***.”


http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased

This is what I don't get. Why do so many people support police officers who treat everybody "like, they’re a piece of s***", and those are the words of a police officer.

This country is so hopeless. We will never be able to fix this problem, and 17 year old kids are going to keep dying because of it. :cry:

 

[Montjoy]

I am not sure that I agree that one woman's perspective means that ' lots of LE don't care about the public at all.' That kind of goes against the entire meaning behind 'Protect and Serve' the community.

Yes, it does.

And if you're willing to have your eyes opened, you might want to read that article. It is totally inaccurate to suggest that it is just 'one woman's perspective', and I'm not sure how you can critique the article without having read it.

I also don't think that police brutality and violence is of the same order as 'gallows humor'; it's a very poor analogy.

 

[KaaBoom]

The mods also need to correct the title of this thread. It reads "CO-Jessica-Hernandez-17-killed-by-police-after-LEO-struck-by-stolen-car". This is incorrect, as no officer was struck.

Agreed, it should be changed to "CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police in stolen car". But unfortunately, most people here don't seem to care much about the facts of the case.

 

[Montjoy]

Yup, just trying to get home safely.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, it does.

And if you're willing to have your eyes opened, you might want to read that article. It is totally inaccurate to suggest that it is just 'one woman's perspective', and I'm not sure how you can critique the article without having read it.

I also don't think that police brutality and violence is of the same order as 'gallows humor'; it's a very poor analogy.

I did read it. It was a total hatchet job against LE. Why am I not surprised?