CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

[Montjoy]

I did read it. It was a total hatchet job against LE. Why am I not surprised?

Give me a break. It was an incredibly well researched article. It's been called great journalism --

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/290339811.html

But it just doesn't fit your 'narrative' about law enforcement, so you (astonishingly) call it a 'total hatchet job'. It was published in the New Yorker. If you're not aware, it is one of the top English-language magazines in the world.

 

[Fred Hall]

Agreed, it should be changed to "CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police in stolen car". But unfortunately, most people here don't seem to care much about the facts of the case.

I am beginning to think that out of all the journalists who have written articles reporting on the DA's decision, literally none of them have bothered to read the decision letter.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If people do not understand the cops standard procedures by now. Than i don't know what else to imply.

Basic procedures are still being questioned by citizens when there is no need.

If there is a fire. Stop drop and roll.

If a cop has a gun at you. Stop drop and roll.

COMPLY FIRST AND SUE LATER.

BUT IF YOU DON'T COMPLY then a lawsuit is not a guaranteed win. Jmo

 

[KaaBoom]

Yup, just trying to get home safely.

Thank you, you are a brave hero. Here is some tax $$$$ for you.

 

[Fred Hall]

If people do not understand the cops standard procedures by now. Than i don't know what else to imply.

Basic procedures are still being questioned by citizens when there is no need.

If there is a fire. Stop drop and roll.

If a cop has a gun at you. Stop drop and roll.

COMPLY FIRST AND SUE LATER.

BUT IF YOU DON'T COMPLY then a lawsuit is not a guaranteed win. Jmo

If anyone has a gun on me, I will "stop drop and roll"

 

[Rhino-Esq]

These officers should certainly leave the force. It is hair-raising to think that they will be back on the streets of Denver shortly.

I second this.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If anyone has a gun on me, I will "stop drop and roll"

Lol. I didn't say if a rapist had a gun on you.

In some cases. You shouldn't just stop drop and roll.

Only when there is a fire or LE is involved while you know that you need to comply.

 

[CoolJ]

You know, I said that video is off topic. But in reality it is not. Incidents of psychopathic cops abusing their authority happens everyday. I have stated my opinion that this case here in this thread was a justified shooting. That's just how I feel because I can see how the officers in this case could have been in fear of major bodily injury.
But it is incidents like this video that create an image of what law enforcement are about. What type of impression are these children going to have towards LE for the remainder of their lives? Hundreds of thousands of kids are witness to these sorts of events. I know I was when I was a kid. I am sure the law enforcement profession attracts compassionate people who truly want to help. But does it also attract a relatively high proportion of societies psychopaths, looking for an excuse to abuse their authority?

 

[katydid23]

Give me a break. It was an incredibly well researched article. It's been called great journalism --

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/290339811.html

But it just doesn't fit your 'narrative' about law enforcement, so you (astonishingly) call it a 'total hatchet job'. It was published in the New Yorker. If you're not aware, it is one of the top English-language magazines in the world.

The New Yorker is not infallible. I googled Rachel Aviv , the author of that LE hit piece, and not everyone agrees that she is an unbiased nor fair journalist. She is known as a very left leaning progressive, so no surprise that her article was so derogatory and one-sided. JMO


For one example of criticism of her work:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonenti...-hayes-turning-rogue-into-beleaguered-hero/2/

 

[DexterMorgan]

<modsnip>

IF THIS WAS A male GANGBANGA WHO WAS LATER DISCOVERD TO HAVE A KIDNAPPED VICTIM IN THE TRUNK. THEN OK

But in this case. The cops was suppose to know that there was no chance of a possible victims to be left dead in the trunk or a possible victim left dead like the DC mansion murders that just happened.

If the driver in this alley was D.W. from the DC mansion murders. Everybody will be applauding.

 

[Tricia]

Dear Websleuths Members,

Remember this is a thread about Jessica Hernandez. Please DO NOT bring up other police/civilian cases.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Fred Hall]

<modsnip>

IF THIS WAS A male GANGBANGA WHO WAS LATER DISCOVERD TO HAVE A KIDNAPPED VICTIM IN THE TRUNK. THEN OK

But in this case. The cops was suppose to know that there was no chance of a possible victims to be left dead in the trunk or a possible victim left dead like the DC mansion murders that just happened.

If the driver in this alley was D.W. from the DC mansion murders. Everybody will be applauding.

I'm guessing that finding a body in the trunk is fairly unlikely, although I'm sure it happens from time to time. We probably would be applauding if the person who was shot in that stolen Honda was a serial killer, but it wasn't, due to car thieves being much more common. If you want to start shooting suspects, your ratio of petty criminals to serial killers is going to be awfully high
CLARIFICATION: In the above, I am referring to the stolen Honda Civic that Jessica Hernandez was shot in.

 

[Tricia]

Hello???

Please do not talk about other cases on this thread.

The thread is about Jessica Hernandez ​

 

[al66pine]

The mods also need to correct the title of this thread. It reads "CO-Jessica-Hernandez-17-killed-by-police-after-LEO-struck-by-stolen-car". This is incorrect, as no officer was struck.

Fred Hall Re your suggested title: Yes, generally agreeing w your thought that current title is not accurate. I suggest slight clarification, as JH, not LEO, was in stolen car, & adding Denver & date.
This thread may cont. for some time (civil suit by parents re her death?)

"CO-in-stolen-car-Jessica-Hernandez-17-killed-by-Denver-LE-Jan-2015"

Azzuming all that will fit.
Going to alert on this post, to ask Mods to change. Mods, please & thank you.:loveyou:

 

[KaaBoom]

Fred Hall Re your suggested title: Yes, generally agreeing w your thought that current title is not accurate. I suggest slight clarification, as JH, not LEO, was in stolen car, & adding Denver & date.
This thread may cont. for some time (civil suit by parents re her death?)

"CO-in-stolen-car-Jessica-Hernandez-17-killed-by-Denver-LE-Jan-2015"

Azzuming all that will fit.
Going to alert on this post, to ask Mods to change. Mods, please & thank you.:loveyou:

I would do that but it says, "This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts." I don't think a miss-titled thread would meet those criteria.

Plus moderators have been monitoring this thread. Apparently they don't see any problem with the title. But it is a very misleading title, no matter how you look at it.

 

[Fred Hall]

Fred Hall Re your suggested title: Yes, generally agreeing w your thought that current title is not accurate. I suggest slight clarification, as JH, not LEO, was in stolen car, & adding Denver & date.
This thread may cont. for some time (civil suit by parents re her death?)

"CO-in-stolen-car-Jessica-Hernandez-17-killed-by-Denver-LE-Jan-2015"

Azzuming all that will fit.
Going to alert on this post, to ask Mods to change. Mods, please & thank you.:loveyou:

Yes, "Jessica-Hernandez-17-killed-by-police-in-stolen-car" sounds like a cop jacked a car and ran down a schoolgirl Regarding my thought experiment in which I place myself in Officer Jordan's position, I note that Morrissey cites a self-defense statute that is apparently applicable to private citizens on page 22:

C.R.S. 18-1-704 is the general Colorado statute pertaining to self-defense and
defense of others. This statute is not restricted to peace officers when making an arrest or
preventing escape from custody. As pertinent to this case, 18-1-704 states:
(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section,
a person is justified in using physical force upon another person
in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably
believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force
by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he
reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.
(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a
lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that
he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of
receiving great bodily injury; &#8230;.

By citing the above, Morrissey seems to imply that he would have found the shooting justified if it had been made by any person who found themselves in the same situation, not just a police officer. Am I mistaken in this interpretation?

 

[al66pine]

"Originally Posted by katydid23 If my child was out on bail for stolen car"

Source that she was out on bail for stealing a car?

bbm

Does this help, the report discussed the past few days? Footnote 22, Page 24.

"22 On January 22, 2015, just four days prior to this shooting, a Thornton police officer saw Hernandez in the driver seat of a parked Honda Civic that had been stolen the day before. When the officer announced his presence, Hernandez looked at him and ran away. She was later found and arrested, and then released." bbm
"Three weeks before that incident, on January 1, 2015, Hernandez was observed driving her mother&#8217;s car 80 mph in a 55 mph zone in Adams County. When a Trooper with the Colorado State Patrol signaled for her to pull over, she drove erratically in an attempt to elude him. She ultimately drove into an alley, stopped the car, and fled on foot. Two days later, the Trooper spoke to her at her mother&#8217;s house and asked her what had caused her to run. Hernandez told the Trooper: &#8220;I got scared. I can&#8217;t have any contact with the police.&#8221; (She was on probation for other offenses at the time)." bbm

"Another incident occurred on December 2, 2013, one week after her 16th birthday. She was seen smoking marijuana on Colfax Avenue by Denver police officers. When being handcuffed, and apparently while under the influence of marijuana, Hernandez became extremely profane and verbally threatening to the officers and their families. She then &#8220;head butted&#8221; one of the officers in the throat. She was charged, as a juvenile, with a felony assault to the police officer and was ultimately placed on probation."

^Not just my 2 cents, but Denver District Attorney's. Wrong? Making it up? IDK but respectfully doubting he's telling a long series of fabrications.

(Sorry if this was covered since KaaBoom's posting a few days ago)

 

[katydid23]

"Originally Posted by katydid23 If my child was out on bail for stolen car"

bbm

Does this help, the report discussed the past few days? Footnote 22, Page 24.

"22 On January 22, 2015, just four days prior to this shooting, a Thornton police officer saw Hernandez in the driver seat of a parked Honda Civic that had been stolen the day before. When the officer announced his presence, Hernandez looked at him and ran away. She was later found and arrested, and then released."

"Three weeks before that incident, on January 1, 2015, Hernandez was observed driving her mother&#8217;s car 80 mph in a 55 mph zone in Adams County. When a Trooper with the Colorado State Patrol signaled for her to pull over, she drove erratically in an attempt to elude him. She ultimately drove into an alley, stopped the car, and fled on foot. Two days later, the Trooper spoke to her at her mother&#8217;s house and asked her what had caused her to run. Hernandez told the Trooper: &#8220;I got scared. I can&#8217;t have any contact with the police.&#8221; (She was on probation for other offenses at the time)."

"Another incident occurred on December 2, 2013, one week after her 16th birthday. She was seen smoking marijuana on Colfax Avenue by Denver police officers. When being handcuffed, and apparently while under the influence of marijuana, Hernandez became extremely profane and verbally threatening to the officers and their families. She then &#8220;head butted&#8221; one of the officers in the throat. She was charged, as a juvenile, with a felony assault to the police officer and was ultimately placed on probation."

^Not just my 2 cents, but Denver District Attorney's. Wrong? Making it up? IDK but respectfully doubting he's telling a long series of fabrications.

(Sorry if this was covered since KaaBoom's posting a few days ago)

OH MY...THANK YOU. I thought I was going nuts because I was sure I had remembered a previous stolen car incident. And the reason I remembered was because I was so upset with JH because I worked with high school kids for years, mostly with At Risk teens. And I was always willing to help them overcome past 'mistakes.' But when I read that she had just that day been released after two prior incidents with resisting arrest, no license, and stolen cars, then I knew that this was a kid with some major issues going on. It was not just a one time mistake that she needed to get past. She was seriously saying EFF YOU to her family and to the cops. JMO

 

[Minette]

"Originally Posted by katydid23 If my child was out on bail for stolen car"

bbm

Does this help, the report discussed the past few days? Footnote 22, Page 24.

"22 On January 22, 2015, just four days prior to this shooting, a Thornton police officer saw Hernandez in the driver seat of a parked Honda Civic that had been stolen the day before. When the officer announced his presence, Hernandez looked at him and ran away. She was later found and arrested, and then released."

"Three weeks before that incident, on January 1, 2015, Hernandez was observed driving her mother&#8217;s car 80 mph in a 55 mph zone in Adams County. When a Trooper with the Colorado State Patrol signaled for her to pull over, she drove erratically in an attempt to elude him. She ultimately drove into an alley, stopped the car, and fled on foot. Two days later, the Trooper spoke to her at her mother&#8217;s house and asked her what had caused her to run. Hernandez told the Trooper: &#8220;I got scared. I can&#8217;t have any contact with the police.&#8221; (She was on probation for other offenses at the time)."

"Another incident occurred on December 2, 2013, one week after her 16th birthday. She was seen smoking marijuana on Colfax Avenue by Denver police officers. When being handcuffed, and apparently while under the influence of marijuana, Hernandez became extremely profane and verbally threatening to the officers and their families. She then &#8220;head butted&#8221; one of the officers in the throat. She was charged, as a juvenile, with a felony assault to the police officer and was ultimately placed on probation."

^Not just my 2 cents, but Denver District Attorney's. Wrong? Making it up? IDK but respectfully doubting he's telling a long series of fabrications.

(Sorry if this was covered since KaaBoom's posting a few days ago)

I am sorry JH is dead. I am sorry her parent(s) had no control over her actions. I'm sorry she made a series of choices that ended in her death. And I'm sorry that people seem to believe that law enforcement is supposed to take the place of parents, to be understanding in the face of a potentially deadly situation, that 'this is just a kid, she doesn't actually mean to ram me with this car' and to risk their own lives in an encounter with an out of control child. But I will say--sorrowfully--that once your child gets to a place in which you have no control, in which he or she breaks the law repeatedly, has violent or potentially violent interactions with other and/or LE, perhaps it is time to consider your failures as a parent and not the failures of law enforcement. Because it is NOT the job of LE to parent your child, to excuse your child from breaking the law, to pardon your child from endangering others, it is the job of LE to protect the peace and to enforce the laws of society. It is up to the judicial system to determine the punishment(s) for various crimes, but in a situation in which someone (whether it is your beloved teenaged child or a much older criminal is breaking the law) society expects/demands that LE protect society as a whole over any given individual. You have a problem with that? Take it up with your duly elected representatives and work to change the laws, because whether you like it or not, in the absence of an egregious illegal act on the part of LE (which is IMO absent in THIS case, or we wouldn't have people constructing ever more particular straw men that have to be shot down rather than dealing with the actual facts) LE is acting on the will of society overall. Maybe you don't like it because they have guns and *have been given the authority by society to use deadly force* but if you have a problem with the overall concept of deadly force being used to enforce the law you are way, WAY too late in objecting by the time you get to the actual end result of same.

IMO.

 

[al66pine]

....Regarding my thought experiment in which I place myself in Officer Jordan's position, I note that Morrissey cites a self-defense statute that is apparently applicable to private citizens on page 22:

C.R.S. 18-1-704 is the general Colorado statute pertaining to self-defense and defense of others. This statute is not restricted to peace officers when making an arrest or preventing escape from custody. As pertinent to this case, 18-1-704 states:
(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section,
a person is justified in using physical force upon another person
in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably
believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force
by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he
reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.
(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that
he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of
receiving great bodily injury; …. "

By citing the above, Morrissey seems to imply that he would have found the shooting justified if it had been made by any person who found themselves in the same situation, not just a police officer. Am I mistaken in this interpretation?

bbm in Fred's text; sbm

Fred Hall. Glad you pointed this out. Why did Dist. Atty include ^ (not ltd to LE) self defense section in his report?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing w your ^implication, but wonder if anyone else has thoughts about other reasons he included this. Anyone?