CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #11

[Etilema]

It seems LE was either being 'tactfull', 'vaguely explicit' or both in using the phrase: "not intact."

'Tactfull' is understandable, given it was a public forum and certainly within family member's earshot.

'Vaguely explicit' is also understandable, to describe a condition without being to aggressive and given how LE holds close-to-the-cuff any information deemded important to identifying / convicting a perp.

Which is more important .. protecting the feelings of family or releasing vague information to help ensure perp identification? By using the phrase "not intact", LE has accomplished both IMO.

Some have reported a typical or even 'heavy' coyote presence (which suggests animal involvement in what was described) in the discovery area but one could also assume animal presence could be at a minimum since the area is a 'popular hangout' for teens and a destination for curisosity seekers and history buffs.

That does not preclude the possibility but let's take in to account all that we (think) we know:

- LE announced JR's remains were discovered Wednesday, 10/10/2012.
- LE spokeman used the phrase "not intact" to describe the remains.
- LE announced identification would be forthcoming by Friday afternoon.
- Positive identification was announced Friday, 10/12/2012.

What tactical or other purpose would it serve if the remains were actually discovered earlier (one post mentioned an 'uncle' claimed the remains were discovered Tuesday evening) but LE chose to announce the discovery date as Wednesday?

LE was quite specific in stating positive identification would be announced by Friday afternoon. Wow .. they were quite accurate, yes?

What tactical or other purpose would it serve if the remains were actually intact enough to have elicited visual confirmation of identity on the day of discovery?


***WARNING*** graphic phrasing to follow:


Assuming the "not intact" condition was sufficient to prevent visual or other form of immediate identification and it was the result of animals, they would have had to have removed or damaged:

- all fingertips.
- facial features.
- teeth.
- feet / skin on bottom of feet and toes.

It would take either full-out 'luck' (read: misfortune) or conscious effort for all of the above to have occurred.

Does LE require more than one item of identification?

If the perp wanted to delay or prevent positive identification then conscious effort is more likely and possibly a taunt game is afoot.

If it was simple misfortune (animals) then there is no mystery. The perp simply dumped JR's remains and moved on.

Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is the most likely, right?

The perp abducted JR, then fill-in-the-blank, then left JR in the field.

But when dealing with the psychology of any specific killer and, given what has occurred with this case all bets are off and Occam's Razor must be applied within a much different context. Even the experts are not fully aware of what that context fully entails.

..... and it seems that is exactly what LE has with this case.

ALSO GRAPHIC:
If animal damage, the skin could have been destroyed or removed such that fingerprints/footprints or visual identification of the face would be impossible. Also, small bones are often scavenged by animals, so teeth could be missing. Still, I tend to agree that it sounds like parts were actually missing, not just mutilated.

JMO

 

[absentia]

in reading this it occurred to me that maybe there was nothing around Standley & Ketner Lakes when they were first searching.

ooooh, but now I see you're saying that they were getting so close he dropped the backpack in the opposite direction to get them away from the remains?

I never thought about it being in response to the search efforts. but it makes so much sense. and it means LE is really smart, to go BACK to where they were searching when he distracted them instead of obsessing on Superior to the exclusion of other areas.

so he didn't want her found so soon. or at all? if not at all, then he could be in the habit of destroying the remains so as not to be found. So maybe he's been doing this all along an this is a break for LE b/c now they have a body and evidence. I try to see it as hopeful as I can. If she hadn't been found, no one would know there's a child killer on the loose or the first thing about how to catch him.
I hope they change Amber alert rules in this light.

http://goo.gl/maps/eYU8A

on the map I made I did my best to include dates and times of searches. If you look at Ketner lake and Standley lake they were searching those on the late afternoon of the 6th... if you look closer... that is getting mighty close to where her remains were discovered (note that other evidence may have been found where they moved the command post to standley)

two hours later
sometime after 1845 on the 6th
-------

then sometime between the hours of 1845 on the 6th and 1am ish on the 7th the backpack is standing up on the sidewalk six miles north of Jessica's house in the opposite direction that the searching of the open spaces was taking place (and canvasing of her neighborhood). After the backpack was found on the 7th the searching started to focus on those open spaces well over 10 miles away from where she ended up being found.

After looking at the map again closer I am thinking that the perp did it as an attempt to redirect the searching away from the area. Was it to take the heat off so he could get out of the area undetected to get rid of evidence? Or was it to draw the search away from where he had already disposed of evidence? I am not sure on that... What we do know is that he had that backpack in his possession and instead of throwing it away he planted it. He didn't get rid of it but planted it.

 

[marazul]

I've been involved in many cases of child molestation. We can profile these guys extensively but the fact remains that if they are seeking gratification they will find it. A pedophile often escalates to murder. Just because the early victims are known to him doesn't preclude him from moving on to stranger abductions.

Yes. Like the Jorelys Rivera case. The perp had prior juvenile accusations of molesting a family member and escalated to stranger (or casual aquaintense) abduction for molestation, the first and only of which resulted in murder.

 

[Theforeigner]

I have been trying to keep up but I have a sick child and I'm beat. Anyway, I searched for news clips on youtube to see what the news in CO is saying and there is a clip of news 9 from Oct 11 and the only comment is from someone called TheSuperPsychoKiller that says news 9 is stupid (something like that).

I took a screen shot....don't know how to attach. I cant get the youtube link to copy. Ugh. The smartphone is only as smart as the user. :/

I would head to my laptop to upload but I am afraid to move bc my sick child has bionic hearing and I don't want to wake him. I have no idea when I can get back on again. I dont wanna be a Chicken Little either. I just wanted to share at least this much with y'all. If this has been discussed already then ignore me and sorry for being redundant. I am still on thread #9. I think?

I found it just by searching "Jessica Ridgeway 9 News"
It is 99% nothing--just some jerky jerk. But still, how odd.

I am headed back to my battle with nursery school germs. Wish me luck!

This is a link to all TheSuperPsychoKiller 's youtube videos, there are several concerning the JR case:

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSuperPsychoKiller

 

[carbuff]

It seems LE was either being 'tactfull', 'vaguely explicit' or both in using the phrase: "not intact."

'Tactfull' is understandable, given it was a public forum and certainly within family member's earshot.

'Vaguely explicit' is also understandable, to describe a condition without being to aggressive and given how LE holds close-to-the-cuff any information deemded important to identifying / convicting a perp.

Which is more important .. protecting the feelings of family or releasing vague information to help ensure perp identification? By using the phrase "not intact", LE has accomplished both IMO.

Some have reported a typical or even 'heavy' coyote presence (which suggests animal involvement in what was described) in the discovery area but one could also assume animal presence could be at a minimum since the area is a 'popular hangout' for teens and a destination for curisosity seekers and history buffs.

That does not preclude the possibility but let's take in to account all that we (think) we know:

- LE announced JR's remains were discovered Wednesday, 10/10/2012.
- LE spokeman used the phrase "not intact" to describe the remains.
- LE announced identification would be forthcoming by Friday afternoon.
- Positive identification was announced Friday, 10/12/2012.

What tactical or other purpose would it serve if the remains were actually discovered earlier (one post mentioned an 'uncle' claimed the remains were discovered Tuesday evening) but LE chose to announce the discovery date as Wednesday?

LE was quite specific in stating positive identification would be announced by Friday afternoon. Wow .. they were quite accurate, yes?

What tactical or other purpose would it serve if the remains were actually intact enough to have elicited visual confirmation of identity on the day of discovery?


***WARNING*** graphic phrasing to follow:


Assuming the "not intact" condition was sufficient to prevent visual or other form of immediate identification and it was the result of animals, they would have had to have removed or damaged:

- all fingertips.
- facial features.
- teeth.
- feet / skin on bottom of feet and toes.

It would take either full-out 'luck' (read: misfortune) or conscious effort for all of the above to have occurred.

Does LE require more than one item of identification?

If the perp wanted to delay or prevent positive identification then conscious effort is more likely and possibly a taunt game is afoot.

If it was simple misfortune (animals) then there is no mystery. The perp simply dumped JR's remains and moved on.

Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is the most likely, right?

The perp abducted JR, then fill-in-the-blank, then left JR in the field.

But when dealing with the psychology of any specific killer and, given what has occurred with this case all bets are off and Occam's Razor must be applied within a much different context. Even the experts are not fully aware of what that context fully entails.

..... and it seems that is exactly what LE has with this case.

One thing that is overlooked here: LE in the field WILL NOT make an identification no matter what they can see or how sure they are. That has to be done officially. Even if the dead person is carrying ID and wearing clothes with a nametag, they still have to verify it officially, notify the next of kin, and probably go through some other paperwork. I don't know what the exact procedures are but it takes 12 hours to a couple of days usually to get the official word.

So it's possible that none of our morbid speculation is true. For all we know, they may have taken her to the morgue Thursday, had the dentist come in with charts and x-rays that afternoon, notified the family members Friday morning, and released the information in the afternoon.

The "uncle" saying Wednesday makes me wonder whether they found some part of her that night, probably over near Standley Lake.

 

[rpgman]

I agree with this. When we were being shown the scene from the helicopter live, it really only looked big enough to be a torso only. Unless legs were being covered by grass, all I saw was something the size of a torso.

exactly what I saw.

 

[JustyThoughts]

correct, they speculate the backpack was left where it was in the manner it was as EITHER a taunt or a distraction. I am voting for distraction. but taunt may well be true instead.

It could be both. MOO. A distraction in that it was placed in an area away from the body/abduction/perp's home. A taunt in that it was placed in the open to be found and even in an area with a previous child murder case. MOO

 

[tlcya]

Yes. Like the Jorelys Rivera case. The perp had prior juvenile accusations of molesting a family member and escalated to stranger (or casual aquaintense) abduction for molestation, the first and only of which resulted in murder.

Hi Maruzul, nice to see you again. You had alot of good input on Jorelys' threads and look forward to your insights on Jessica's case.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

GRAPHIC:
LE couldn't identify her sex. Mutilation of the genitals or that lower half of torso was not connected to what was found. IMO

Right, which means pieces. Maybe a torso. No head. Possibly no arms or hands with fingers as I saw pictures with her nails painted - painted nails on a 10 y/o would suggest a female victim. My God. I keep thinking there were various non identifying body parts & they were left in the open for wildlife to naturally get rid of the "evidence".

 

[winterrose]

Hi Jersey Girl.
Reply re: BBM part above. I read on that forum (maybe it was a news link) sorry I do not have the link to post here.... that his truck was seen on camera in some part of YS park (10/7 - I think) and the timing would not have been possible.

He sure was at Yellowstone alot through the years, glad they have his DNA now and hopefully can link him to any other crimes like with that poor little girl.

 

[absentia]

apparently a couple of RSO's are near there too.

Why do I think of a bus route when I look at her neighborhood compared with where her backpack was found? Wondering why the perp picked the area he did to place that backpack. I know it was posted that the lady who murdered her 6 month old child used to live by there, but could that be the only link? What else is there?

 

[b2alicia]

At the home where the BP was found, the owners said they went out Saturday evening, leaving the house around 6 pm and did not notice anything in the front yard. Then, when they returned home, around 11:30 PM, they saw it, but figured it belonged to a neighbor child, and did not look at it at that time.

When it was still there the next day, they put a notice on their neighborhood message board, saying , come get your backpack. They included the JR's name on the water bottle, but didn't know about the abduction at first. Someone who read the notice and recognized the name, contacted the homeowner. Homeowner then called LE.

Not sure, but I think I got all this info from the WPD facebook page, or from a local news page.

 

[absentia]

I was a free roaming, latch key kid from age 8 and up. i could've been snatched any day easily. parents allowed more freedom back in the 70's. but I think it was naive.

I agree that this is certainly a quandary...

I have seen the effects of both sides of the pendulum... Not counting abduction/murders... And It takes a whole lot of soul searching and awareness for a parents to make the correct decisions... :waitasec:

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Found the original post re. the dogs following the scent to the school in Superior.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8427556&postcount=744

Kevin Torres - 9 News

A dozen investigators including 4 FBI on scene now. 1:03 found backpack by grey house. Man didn't know it was connected till he looked inside & saw things with her name. 20 minutes later, he contacted police. Two bloodhounds were in area. They left. Fewer officers on scene now. Helicopter hovering, maybe JeffCo. Will bring in heavy duty lights to use on the street tonight. Bloodhound went toward Superior elementary school, then back to that area.

*** Showing the quoted post to make it easier to refer to. ***

So, dogs didnt lead detectives to the backpack. A man living by wear it was found is the one that discovered it. Thank you for searching this out.

 

[NC Analyzer]

At the home where the BP was found, the owners said they went out Saturday evening, leaving the house around 6 pm and did not notice anything in the front yard. Then, when they returned home, around 11:30 PM, they saw it, but figured it belonged to a neighbor child, and did not look at it at that time.

When it was still there the next day, they put a notice on their neighborhood message board, saying , come get your backpack. They included the JR's name on the water bottle, but didn't know about the abduction at first. Someone who read the notice and recognized the name, contacted the homeowner. Homeowner then called LE.

Not sure, but I think I got all this info from the WPD facebook page, or from a local news page.

I thought they came home much later but you could be correct. If you could find the link to the time, it would be very helpful. TIA

Never mind...I see there is a scanner report posted. Thanks anyway!

 

[Theforeigner]

What type of backpack was it? Victorious? I'm not saying THIS is the backpack, but here is an example of what I was talking about. Her water bottle could have been in one of those mesh side pockets like the one here

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/...772875-_-kw-&gclid=COvgyIGahrMCFQmmPAode2IAuw

According to the Jessica Ridgeway missing flyer it was a:

"Pink "Victoria Justice" backpack"

 

[absentia]

OHHHHHHH- the command post was originally at West View Rec Ctr. that sheds light on the police scanner transcripts from the afternoon of the 5th. that's where they found the unicorn pillow pet then (someone allegedly saw her walking with it and then it was found there (?), confirmed by the family it was hers, and then it was assumed by LE that she had to have gone up there(?)). so she went NW instead of E and S to Chelsea park? WHY????

there are LOTS of trails right there by West View Rec Ctr. I think that's majorly important.

 

[Jax49]

What type of backpack was it? Victorious? I'm not saying THIS is the backpack, but here is an example of what I was talking about. Her water bottle could have been in one of those mesh side pockets like the one here

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/...772875-_-kw-&gclid=COvgyIGahrMCFQmmPAode2IAuw

Nurse posted a photo of Jessica wearing a backpack.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...6864304.-2207520000.1350407524&type=1&theater

Thank you Nurse for finding that. I knew I'd seen that photo somewhere.

 

[tlcya]

*** Showing the quoted post to make it easier to refer to. ***

So, dogs didnt lead detectives to the backpack. A man living by wear it was found is the one that discovered it. Thank you for searching this out.

In addition, that post does not specify that the bloodhounds LED or tracked anywhere, it simply says they "went" towards Superior elementary school, then back.

Could have been tracking could have been led in an attempt to let them get a scent if one existed.

 

[absentia]

ok, that's too weird. A "Victoria Justice" backpack found on Alpha way in Superior? we know what this guy thinks of himself and what he did.

According to the Jessica Ridgeway missing flyer it was a:

"Pink "Victoria Justice" backpack"