CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23

[Dr. Know?]

me too.

 

[KaaBoom]

The jogger that was attacked described Austin as brown haired.
The incident with the boy involved an athletic bald man, possibly 6' tall, without facial hair.

Austin is not bald and, in many pictures, he has facial hair.

Eyewitness descriptions are about the most worthless evidence there is. People almost never get the description of a suspect even half way correct. At that moment the jogger's mind would have been on getting a way from her attacker, not on what he looked like.

Thank god for DNA evidence.

 

[Dr. Know?]

There aren't any reports that I've heard that AS didn't have a shaved head in early May. He seems to have grown a good amount of hair on his face at an early age. Hair too. He could grow a decent amount since May. So I won't discount it, but the body description, I have nothing to cross check that with (I really don't need bod visuals, tia). jmo

Any pictures from May to Oct.? tia

 

[KaaBoom]

I can't for the life of me think of a good reason to be bringing younger brother to court. It is obviously very upsetting to him. Unless it is in some way a preventative measure. e.g. If you do this or that this is where you are going to be. Harsh I know, but jmo.

Yeah, I agree. But maybe he wanted to be there. Austin Sigg's family and friends seem to be sticking by him, for some reason. Including showing support for him in court.

Which I don't really understand. Personally if I was the parents, I'd try to get the younger brother as far away from all of this as possible. But thats just me.

 

[carole]

I read a news article today that said the BTK's brother felt for mom (Sigg's mom) as he too had to turn his brother in for murder after reading BTK's papers. I can't find it anywhere now. It was heartfelt and really told how a person feels turning in their own child or family member. Take it as rumor unless found...

Unabomber's brother.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Boy do I hope you're wrong. I was thinking along those lines too though. With the gag order in place they're not going to release very many details, as far as I know. I'm impressed with those who found anything at all listed! ETA: I actually don't hope you're wrong, I realized I wasn't very clear in my reply. I figured this would be one of the necessary legal steps, but I sure hope they're not even considering charging him as a child.

Related to the prior discussion/speculation that maybe he's got some sort of autism spectrum disorder going on... IMO he'd still know right from wrong. If anything I think he'd be over-sensitive to it, maybe knowing it was wrong, and being mad at himself for doing it anyway, but I think he'd know it was wrong. All MOO, and all speculation based on my time spent working with autistic children.

I agree with you.

I wasn't thinking that it would be in any way exculpatory; my only interest is in trying to figure out what makes this guy tick. I'm not completely convinced that he's a psychopath, although I could change my mind. I just don't have enough information yet to feel like I have much of a grasp on his personality.

I think the likely relevance will be in terms of which facility he is placed in once all the paperwork has been shuffled.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I can't for the life of me think of a good reason to be bringing younger brother to court. It is obviously very upsetting to him. Unless it is in some way a preventative measure. e.g. If you do this or that this is where you are going to be. Harsh I know, but jmo.

It could be that the brother WANTED to go to court. Possibly to be there for AS, or to actually hear what happened, or to see AS's reaction to the charges. It is possible the brother needed it to be real. He may have wanted to be there with his mom.

Just a speculation that it MIGHT have been the younger brother's choice to go to court.

 

[KaaBoom]

Something to keep in mind is that if he has PDD, he may not have the same grasp on interactions and relationships that most teens his age have. He may have thought he was having an ongoing relationship with the girl he dated once or twice without realising that she really didn't feel that way about him.

My niece has Asperger's and one of the many things she finds difficult is the whole give and take of human interactions thing. When she was 15, there was an incident where she thought she was having a relationship with a boy in one of her classes because he was nice to her (this is the girl whose definition of friend is "someone who doesn't say mean things to you"). His parents finally intervened because my niece was engaged in stalker-ish behaviour and the boy just didn't know how to handle it. My niece is not dangerous in any way but she just did not pick up that he was not interested in her. And being a very nice boy, he was unwilling to simply say to her "leave me alone, I don't want to have a relationship with you." He didn't realise that to her, that's not a cruel thing to say, it's actually a relief to deal with clear direction.

It would be interesting to hear what Sigg's take on the relationship is compared to the girl. I don't think she was lying or anything like that, I just suspect that he may not have seen it the way a normal 17 year old would.

People, please stop confusing sociopathy with autism.lease: They are totally different things. People with autism do not understand how to interact with other people, but they are not anti-social, they are not hostile, or aggressive and they don't violate other people's rights. No way in hell is Sigg autistic. He is a sociopath.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I agree.

If ARS is autistic, I'm Mother Theresa.

<modsnip> No fancy diagnosis. <modsnip> who knew exactly what he was doing, and enjoyed it, and would keep on doing it if he could.

A killing machine, like Bundy. No rhyme or reason, no "illness" or "psychosis"...just one of natures mistakes.

 

[Confusion]

People, please stop confusing sociopathy with autism.lease: They are totally different things. People with autism do not understand how to interact with other people, but they are not anti-social, they are not hostile, or aggressive and they don't violate other people's rights. No way in hell is Sigg autistic. He is a sociopath.

Nobody is confusing psychopathy with autism. I personally believe that AS shows more signs of autism than of psychopathy, but autism isn't what would make him do what he did. People with autism are just like people without it - some are hostile, and some aren't; some are anti-social, and some aren't; some can be aggressive, and some never are; I think you get the idea.

In addition to that, not all sociopaths kill people, torture animals, beat their spouses/kids, or even end up in jail - but some do. Some actually live peaceful lives and never bother anybody. Of course, a lot of those people probably don't spend a lot of time socializing, and most likely have careers that allow them to show off their superiority to others without seeming completely full of themselves.

I guess my point is just that generalizations are very seldom fitting for an entire group of people. If all people with autism acted exactly the same, all sociopaths acted exactly another way, all people with schizophrenia acted another way, etc., we wouldn't need expensive doctors and tests to diagnose them, but I don't believe they've come up with any one sign/symptom that all people with any mental/emotional disorder has, or one that is only seen in any one specific disorder. MOO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yeah, I agree. But maybe he wanted to be there. Austin Sigg's family and friends seem to be sticking by him, for some reason. Including showing support for him in court.

Which I don't really understand. Personally if I was the parents, I'd try to get the younger brother as far away from all of this as possible. But thats just me.

There's no way you could hide or minimise something like this.

No doubt ARS's brother is going through hell but keeping things from him would make it all worse.

It's all a bit too serious for that, and he's a bit too old to hide things from.

I really feel for his family...this must be absolutely horrific, especially worrying about the effect on the younger sibling.

Still, at least their son is alive.

:rose:
Jessica

 

[Dr. Know?]

When a child does wrong, their friends stand up usually at first. Some doubt him, some are having a very hard time dealing with it. Hopefully they have support.

jmo Glad they are protected by the gag order right now. I don't need to hear about it just now. jmo

 

[Confusion]

When a child does wrong, their friends stand up usually at first. Some doubt him, some are having a very hard time dealing with it. Hopefully they have support.

jmo Glad they are protected by the gag order right now. I don't need to hear about it just now. jmo

I think it's going to be harder for the family than just living with what he did. I'd expect them to lose a lot of friends, and be treated differently by many, if not most, people. I'm sure there will be some who are being judgmental and feel like they had to know something but covered up for him, and others who worry that AS isn't the only one in the family who's a sandwich short of a picnic. I think that the biggest problem, though, will be people who start avoiding them because they just don't know what to say and feel uncomfortable about it. A lot of times it happens even with the family of a victim, but how do you go up to a mother and say, "I'm so sorry that the child you loved so much turned out to be a monster"?

 

[kkdj]

There's no way you could hide or minimise something like this.

No doubt ARS's brother is going through hell but keeping things from him would make it all worse.

It's all a bit too serious for that, and he's a bit too old to hide things from.

I really feel for his family...this must be absolutely horrific, especially worrying about the effect on the younger sibling.

Still, at least their son is alive.

:rose:
Jessica

If it were my sibling I would be there no matter what probably from the age of 8 up. I love my siblings and if something like this would have occurred I would have thought something went very very screwy somewhere somehow and I would want them to realize I loved them.
The other very important factor is that I would have to be there to protect my single parent mother. I think AS brother is 13 or 14 years old. Boys especially at this age are very protective of their mothers. I feel certain if I would hVe been in her situation when my son was 14, he would absolutely step in to protect me in any and every way he could think of!

 

[kkdj]

There's no way you could hide or minimise something like this.

No doubt ARS's brother is going through hell but keeping things from him would make it all worse.

It's all a bit too serious for that, and he's a bit too old to hide things from.

I really feel for his family...this must be absolutely horrific, especially worrying about the effect on the younger sibling.

Still, at least their son is alive.

:rose:
Jessica

I'll bet his younger sibling turns out to just fine. I'll bet his parents really nurture him thru this along with any weirdness he encountered during life with his brother. I'll bet he turns out reflective and balanced.
And I'll bet he helps others thru unimaginable times successfully.
Jmo he will come thru this with a strength that will empower others that otherwise might lose their way.
This is just what I think...
Hope......
And pray.

 

[Some1Nose]

People, please stop confusing sociopathy with autism.lease: They are totally different things. People with autism do not understand how to interact with other people, but they are not anti-social, they are not hostile, or aggressive and they don't violate other people's rights. No way in hell is Sigg autistic. He is a sociopath.

BBM

I agree with you about the sociopath (interchangable with the term psychopath) status of AS.

Who could dismember a child's body without being psychopathic and get "joy" from it?

Psychopaths have been referred to as "cardboard" persons by criminal justice professionals; meaning that their personalities are cardboard thin and that their emotions are sorely lacking. Psychopaths do not feel sympathy or empathy for others. In other words, they do not feel others' pain, be it physcial or emotional, they are not able to put themselves in anothers' shoes, another who is experiencing pain - they are cold, calculating and unfeeling. Yet, they may exhibit a surface charm that is disarming which may explain the young school girls' interest in him.

How did he get to the point of being a psychopath? An article that I recently posted a link to on this thread theorizes that psychopaths are born, not made. (For me, "the jury" is still out on that but it's an interesting theory.) Could extreme forms of tip the scales for someone who is already prone to psychopathy? Very probably, IMO. Psychopaths are known to have vivid, violent fantasies that they feel driven to carry out in real life...scary stuff.

 

[catswhiskers]

I doubt that many people will agree with me, but I really don't see AS as a sociopath - a very sick minded person, but not a sociopath. There are a few things that just don't fit that label for me. For one thing, he doesn't seem to be all that charismatic, which is a common characteristic of one.

People have said he was intelligent, and friends thought he was charismatic, but it seems like most people described him as strange, quiet, weird, etc.

I don't believe he and his brother would be as close if he was truly a sociopath. It seems like little brothers and sisters are almost as commonly abused as pets by people with no conscience, but his brother seems to genuinely care about him and doesn't seem to have accepted it readily.

He doesn't seem to be much good at lying. I don't see a true sociopath confessing to his mother to start out, and immediately admitting to the murder and other things once questioned. Being a believable liar is a big trait of sociopaths, but it seems like almost nobody has believed much of anything he's said (other than that he's guilty!)

To me, he seems more like someone who is fairly high on the Autism spectrum, but has other severe issues along with it. The signs I see are: not knowing proper social cues, becoming obsessed with subjects of interest, appearing "odd" to people who don't know him well (and to some who do), not spending time doing age appropriate activities, spending time with younger kids (especially girls, because he seems to have more in common with them), the stare is fairly common in someone who is trying to force him/herself to look people in the eye, sometimes a vacant stare can actually aim at another person and feel uncomfortable.

My guess is that he has some form of PDD, along with anxiety, depression and/or some other mood disorder, OCD, and probably some form of psychosis. I believe he knew what he did was wrong, but I'm not sure how much he cared, I really wouldn't be surprised at all if he were to plead guilty. I'd like to say that I feel sorry for him, but any chance of that flew out the window the moment his fantasies became reality.

Am a few pages behind here, so sorry for tossing this in now - but I agree with you Confusion. This is what I was trying to get at in a post of mine a few days ago - the lack of empathy and disregard for others/social awkwardness/talking to himself etc. made me think of of the Autism spectrum too - as well as possibly any or all of the other disorders you have mentioned combined to send him over the edge. Great post

 

[pinto]

Reports of abduction attempts rise after Jessica Ridgeway case

Holly Pierce was horrified one October afternoon when her 8-year-old son rushed home and told her, through tears, that a man had tried to lure him into his car as he rode his bike in their Parker neighborhood.

"He came in screaming and crying. He was inconsolable, and he was frantic," Pierce said. "All he saw was someone waving, and he thought, 'What else could that mean but "get in the car"?' ... We kept saying, 'Are you sure? Are you sure? Tell us again.' But we wanted to let him know we believed him, too."

She called the police.

The case was among scores of reports of abduction attempts that have landed on detectives' desks throughout the metro area in the weeks since 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway was kidnapped and killed while leaving her Westminster home for school. And like many of them, Pierce's incident turned out to be a misunderstanding....


Read more: Reports of abduction attempts rise after Jessica Ridgeway case - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...ise-after-jessica-ridgeway-case#ixzz2BRpIMdDe
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

 

[otto]

Ew... I didn't even want to let my mind go there, but what if he had no in person male role model? It's possible IMO. IIRC at least one article talked about him being pretty fascinated with Ted Bundy. Was he a possible "role model?"

I know some might think I'm contradicting myself since earlier I was saying I don't believe AS was involved in a ton of crimes, but I definitely think he might've been involved in some of them beyond just what he's been charged with. And of course, if he's looking to someone like say Ted Bundy as a role model, yikes.

ALL SPECULATION and JMO.

There has to be someone that was a male role model. I suspect that it was his father, and my concern is that the attitudes that Austin's father had towards law, society and women (evident in his lengthy criminal record) are what Austin internalized. His dad appeared to be financially successful and happy in his various careers. People gave him positions of authority (ex: church financial controls). There's no reason why Austin wouldn't think that he too could live outside of the law, just like his father.

 

[otto]

Eyewitness descriptions are about the most worthless evidence there is. People almost never get the description of a suspect even half way correct. At that moment the jogger's mind would have been on getting a way from her attacker, not on what he looked like.

Thank god for DNA evidence.

Fortunately, with this particular witness, her description was bang on. Austin is 5'6", and her description was 5'6" - 5'8". She said that he had brown hair, and Austin has brown hair. She described what he was wearing, baseball cap and his sunglasses, and that may also be true. She said that he was between the ages of 18 -30, and Austin passes for that age, particularly with the facial hair.