CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

[BRRI]

Yeah. The same thing happened with CW. People contorted from the beginning in order to find a way to blame her for her own death. But as I stated then, these murders are never about the behaviors of the victim really. They're always about the character of the perp. Because normal people don't kill because of custody issues or because they're having an affair or because their ex is dating someone new. They do it because there's something wrong with them.

That being said, it's pretty normal for us to discuss and contemplate the "trigger" for his murderous act. There's always something. Whether it's loss of control of the person, a desire to punish them, to be free, etc.

Yes. I think it’s important to realize that I’m sure 95% of people here, at minimum, aren’t blaming her, or her family, or her daughter or anyone but him and his possible accomplice. But discussing motive is realistic. It’s not victim blaming. It’s being discussed from his POV. His disturbed, convoluted, sick, POV.

 

[Charlot123]

I have to disagree with you. I have no problem with her having a child out of wedlock and have stated more than once that it may have been by choice. There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea she had another bf. Her mother said KB and PF were engaged. KB has been gone for a month and nothing has surfaced yet about either KB or PF having other lovers. Maybe that will come up as the investigation and trial go on, but to keep insisting that there was another lover is disrespectful to KB and her family.

1) I didn't even insist either way, I wish that she found another person in her life rather than Patrick.

2) I believe no one can say it better than @BessDrew did. And her post sums up my attitude to the situation as well.

3) Honestly, neither of us knows about KB's relationship with PF. All I say at this point is that they were raising a child together and that she was a very happy mom and that she commuted really long hours (I am not a Colorado native - but isn't it an hour each way?) to balance working and raising a child, and to live near PF. And as the result of her selflessness, she was killed by her child's father, and as it now seems, it was not an accident, but a violent, premeditated murder.

And as I foresee more unpleasant news, I feel very sorry for KB, for her family, and for baby

 

[susiQ]

If only this were true! Agent Cooper to the rescue!

(teasing -- I'm sure you meant Twin Falls, not Twin Peaks)

Also, I will agree with you and guess that he (or someone) did drive her to Idaho. Probably her body, though I'm also playing with the idea that she was still alive when driven away. Of course this means that whatever evidence was found in her home wasn't definitive in determining that that's where she died. Maybe if he re-entered her home afterward, he left definitive evidence of her death at that point. It's a stretch, I know.

LOL! Can't believe I did that Funny thing is, I only ever watched about 3 episodes of Twin Peaks!

 

[MassGuy]

Interesting. There are over 700 people on death row here in California, and no one has been executed in over a decade. It certainly doesn’t seem to be any kind of deterrent. so even sentencing people to death, doesn’t result in death .

It provides leverage, which is huge.

You wouldn’t think that it would, but it does.

Plenty of killers have plead guilty, because of the prospect of the death penalty hanging over their heads.

It doesn’t prevent murders, but it can prevent some trials.

 

[BRRI]

Interesting. There are over 700 people on death row here in California, and no one has been executed in over a decade. It certainly doesn’t seem to be any kind of deterrent. so even sentencing people to death, doesn’t result in death .

I kind of view a death sentence as ultimately stripping the convicted of all control. They never know if, or when, someone else will take their life. I try to think of it as ultimate psychological punishment for a narcissist.

 

[LAHOLLA]

You're a good person La, I let loose quite the rant last thread.

Nah, I just don’t want to get booted

 

[nwmouse]

I've not seen that here. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for murder. Some are speculating as to PF's MOTIVE, which isn't victim blaming. No matter his motive, the punishment isn't tailored to his motive, it is a consequence to his actions. JMO

I absolutely agree with Mybelle.
No excuse for PF to murder a 110 pound. 5ft3 tall mom of his baby.
I hope he gets punished to the max.

moo

 

[Charlot123]

LOL! Can't believe I did that Funny thing is, I only ever watched about 3 episodes of Twin Peaks!

If it is of any consolation, I once confused Four Peaks, AZ, with Twin Peaks. It apparently happens to many people.

 

[Charlot123]

I absolutely agree with Mybelle.
No excuse for PF to murder a 110 pound. 5ft3 tall mom of his baby.
I hope he gets punished to the max.

moo

And with premeditation, as we now see.

 

[Mae’s Friend]

Responding to a couple of posts above, most studies have shown that the death penalty, even in states where executions are carried out, generally do not act as a deterrent to violent crime that might call for such punishment. There may be other reasons for people to be in favor of the death penalty but deterrence shouldn’t be one of them. Frankly if someone is depraved enough to kill the mother of his child and try to cover it up that person isn’t sitting back to consider whether he’s about to commit such heinous acts in a death penalty state. IMO.

 

[cluciano63]

If the motive was getting full custody, it would not have mattered what Kelsey did on Thanksgiving or any other day, once he had decided to kill her...the day may have been different but not the outcome...jmo

 

[Jupiter05]

Interesting. There are over 700 people on death row here in California, and no one has been executed in over a decade. It certainly doesn’t seem to be any kind of deterrent. so even sentencing people to death, doesn’t result in death .

\deleted by me

 

[jewelsmac]

Many of us here on WS have wondered about the relationship between Kelsey and PF. Just my 2 cents.....

Maybe Kelsey's life prior to meeting PF was busy in school getting degree, church activities and she wasn't a party scene type of girl. She has been described as shy in a few articles I've read and maybe a little naïve. If so, I can totally see her using an internet dating website.

Cowboy Pat (thanks MassGuy) while not suave and so charming IRL, probably could come off quite pleasantly online. I believe he did sell her a 'bill of goods' as another poster pointed out. My ranch, farmer, dog breeder blah blah blah,

Kelsey seems like an honest, forthright person so she could have easily been duped and did little investigating his claims.

He convinces her to move and 'let's get married and live happily ever after'. She believes this, she falls for him. Moves and once she's able to see him consistently IRL, she starts having concerns. She gets pregnant and decides to push those aside for baby K's sake. She loves her new job and coworkers, so buys her own place perhaps thinking this will nudge CP along.

Things worsen over time, and at some point Kelsey gives Cowboy Pat an ultimatum and well, Cowboy Pat doesn't take kindly to those. Anger, custody, financial motives, could be any and all of them. JMHO

This post is made of win. Everything I was thinking but could not put together

 

[katydid23]

KB was pretty petite. I think she could have been placed in a large duffle bag or a rolling suitcase. I dont think anyone would have taken notice of a suitcase or a bag being put in truck during the holidays.

 

[Beamer15]

And with premeditation, as we now see.

Do we really know for sure if it was premeditated?

 

[BRRI]

But motive isn't relevant legally. It's not an element of murder. Or solicitation.

I’m confused. While it’s not an element of murder, it’s relevant in criminal cases, is it not? Self defense, for example?

 

[MassGuy]

Do we really know for sure if it was premeditated?

Yes. In addition to first degree murder, he’s charged with “solicitation of murder,” which means that at some point prior to this crime, he was actively plotting her death.

He interacted with someone, and at the very least, began the planning for her murder.

Whether this person actually participated, is still in question.

 

[TexLil]

Do we really know for sure if it was premeditated?

I think the solicitation of murder charge shows there was premeditation. Moo

 

[Jupiter05]

Responding to a couple of posts above, most studies have shown that the death penalty, even in states where executions are carried out, generally do not act as a deterrent to violent crime that might call for such punishment. There may be other reasons for people to be in favor of the death penalty but deterrence shouldn’t be one of them. Frankly if someone is depraved enough to kill the mother of his child and try to cover it up that person isn’t sitting back to consider whether he’s about to commit such heinous acts in a death penalty state. IMO.

In my opinion, we have not had technology and DNA to the extent that we have now and it will only get better. The death penalty debate that sends innocent people to the chair is massive and wrong. If we have proven scientific and physical evidence, then it is a possibility and should remain. Many governors will come and go in these lifetimes. There should always be the possibility for these kinds of crimes. Chris Watts should have ended up in the chair. As long as the person has a certain IQ and has no known mental health issues such as bipolar schizophrenia IMO

 

[BRRI]

KB was pretty petite. I think she could have been placed in a large duffle bag or a rolling suitcase. I dont think anyone would have taken notice of a suitcase or a bag being put in truck during the holidays.

I’m her size. I cannot confirm nor deny that I have tried this, but if I did try, I will say that I most definitely could easily fit in a suitcase.