CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[jillianelaine]

The more I think. about it, the more I realize that what PF said about picking up the baby that day may have been a lie, and not a "typical exchange" as my impression has been.
A lie opens up the possibility that he'd gone there that day for other reasons.
(If anyone is thinking "Duh!", I am sorry. I'd make a horrible criminal with all these lies...)

Id like to know the length of time the baby was in her home prior to his claimed "exchange". Did she work the night before. If so, was it rare for her to have the kid overnight and turn her back over to him that early in the day?

 

[Charlot123]

We don’t know for sure, but I suspect that she spent a lot of time watching her granddaughter.

I imagine that Cowboy Pat’s plan, was to kill Kelsey, and ensure that he and mommy would be able to spend all the quality time they wanted, with baby K.

Ironically, instead of years spent together, it was a matter of weeks.

Not exactly what he was going for.

It was not exactly quality time, either. Judging by the photo of excavations around his ranch, the septic tank is kaput.

 

[tictoc]

I haven’t been able to do distances and directions and could have missed it if it was posted, anyone know the distance/direction from KB’s to safeway to PF’s.?

According to Google maps, KB's residence is just north of Safeway, minutes away, and 15 miles east of PF/Florissant via highway 24.
ETA 1.4 ml via highway 24 to/from Safeway. 4 minute drive.
Approx .5 mile to Hwy 24 from KB residence:
Right leads west, 15 miles to Florissant. Left heads south, approx 1 mile to Safeway

 

[jillianelaine]

Haaaa. If evidence were to come to light that Cowboy Pat was dealing in something other than cattle, then I’ll certainly entertain that.

Sigh. Alright. Happy holidays, anyways! Pfffft

 

[susiQ]

I think his mother got sincerely attached to the kid and expressed fear that the baby could be moved away.

I wonder about that too. Not at all implying his mother had anything to do with the actual crime, but as time was rolling on and nothing was moving forward, PF may have expressed his discontent with the relationship, bad mouthing KB to his mother and family (most likely due to his own feeling of inadequacy), in that she was pressuring him, questioning him regarding his intentions with getting married and such. Of course, his mother would bring up, "what will happen if you leave her? She may go back to WA. We'll never see the baby" I'm sure as others here have pointed out, Kelsey was having serious doubts herself even if she still considered herself "engaged" to be married. In my gut, I still have this gnawing feeling that PF had already moved on to someone else, even if he hadn't actually met face to face with someone. I suspect he was already trolling on a dating site. JMT

 

[susiQ]

The more I think. about it, the more I realize that what PF said about picking up the baby that day may have been a lie, and not a "typical exchange" as my impression has been.
A lie opens up the possibility that he'd gone there that day for other reasons.
(If anyone is thinking "Duh!", I am sorry. I'd make a horrible criminal with all these lies...)

I'm so VERY glad you would make a horrible criminal All reasonable theories are on the table, as they say. We know so little, but are very good at speculating.

 

[enelram]

So.... I'm sorry to be blunt here. We see over and over these women and girls being murdered again and again. And again.

What's the consensus if there is one here on motive? One seems to be as deluded as the next, other woman, life insurance, "freedom", rage. It goes on and on.

Are there ideas that I'm missing on why this "cowboy" decided this loving mama, daughter, neighbor, woman decided should be murdered?

Hi Johnny! I think many of these murders have similar things:
1) The males have little or NO respect for women.
2) The men want things to go THEIR way.
3)The men come from a background of male domination.
4)The men have learned violence against women is OK.
5) The men have fragile self-esteem, inflated egos.
6)The men had no healthy role models in 'how to grow up male'.
In other words, the man believed he was entitled, period.

 

[tictoc]

I'm so VERY glad you would make a horrible criminal All reasonable theories are on the table, as they say. We know so little, but are very good at speculating.

The sleuthiness here is awesome, riveting! I'm horrible at it

 

[Charlot123]

.

I wonder about that too. Not at all implying his mother had anything to do with the actual crime, but as time was rolling on and nothing was moving forward, PF may have expressed his discontent with the relationship, bad mouthing KB to his mother and family (most likely due to his own feeling of inadequacy), in that she was pressuring him, questioning him regarding his intentions with getting married and such. Of course, his mother would bring up, "what will happen if you leave her? She may go back to WA. We'll never see the baby" I'm sure as others here have pointed out, Kelsey was having serious doubts herself even if she still considered herself "engaged" to be married. In my gut, I still have this gnawing feeling that PF had already moved on to someone else, even if he hadn't actually met face to face with someone. I suspect he was already trolling on a dating site. JMT

Yes. But he was financially dependent on mom. Possibly, emotionally, too. And if mom was constantly fearful about the perceived loss of the child, then it could be the reason in his mind.

 

[susiQ]

I think, they were not scared because KB was not scared during her last conversation with mom.

Sad or good that people don't foresee the future? On that Safeway video, KB walks calmly, she looks busy and is aware of her child, but she has no foreboding of the horror to start in 30 minutes.

So she told mom, calmly, of her plans. A dinner, a X-mas tree. And who would have thought that her child's father had very different plans for the evening? I think she was calm, she had plans, and they included PF. This is why no one got scared.

Sad and good, yes. Kelsey's mom will cherish that last conversation with her but will also be haunted by it. I can't even imagine.

 

[susiQ]

The sleuthiness here is awesome, riveting! I'm horrible at it

Not so! We all learn something from each other. I find it fascinating to read others views which opens my mind to other possibilities. We all have something to offer even if it gets a little confusing at times

 

[enelram]

Here's a copy of a poem that I saw years ago but it's still true today.
I firmly believe children grow up living what they learned in their
family.....

If a child lives with - Poem

 

[susiQ]

Here's a copy of a poem that I saw years ago but it's still true today.
I firmly believe children grow up living what they learned in their
family.....

If a child lives with - Poem

Lovely poem. Only thing that made me really sad is this part:
If a child lives with security, he learns to have faith in himself and those about him . .
If a child lives with friendliness, he learns the world is a nice place in which to live.”
How utterly tragic it is these qualities are what can also make us prey for those who would seek to harm us.
JMO

 

[SoVeryMe]

Lies. I think the lies were catching up. I think he lied to Kelsey about who and what he was. He lied so successfully that she left her family and moved a great distance to be with him. He lied to her about why they had to postpone the wedding. He lied to her about his true intentions in regards to a commitment.
I also think he lied to his family about her. I believe he told them the baby wasn't his, that she was unstable and had substance abuse issues.
I think the lies were catching up and so he decided Kelsey had to go.

I definitely can see that!! This makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[enelram]

Lovely poem. Only thing that made me really sad is this part:
If a child lives with security, he learns to have faith in himself and those about him . .
If a child lives with friendliness, he learns the world is a nice place in which to live.”
How utterly tragic it is these qualities are what can also make us prey for those who would seek to harm us.
JMO

Yes, so true- which is why I said earlier I think Kelsey was a sweet,
loving, kind, honest young woman with good family values but
her downfall was she was NAIVE and way too trusting. She gave
PF the benefit of the doubt on his behavior. Like many other
abuse survivors, they believe they will change and become
the man they want them to be.
Striking up a relationship online, long distance is of benefit
to 'Bad Men' - local women probably won't have anything to do with the lout, they know his reputation. So these men go after
fresh meat- online- where they lie and inflate and the poor
female believes them. Kelsey's parents were skeptical of PB
right from the start. Oh how I wished she had listened to them
and not fallen so hard and fast.

 

[Charlot123]

.

Haaaa. If evidence were to come to light that Cowboy Pat was dealing in something other than cattle, then I’ll certainly entertain that.

Doubtful...all I can think of, he likes the word "b**ches", but he is no Lucky Luciano.

 

[Yellow Rose]

I am wishing all my sleuthing friends a very MERRY CHRISTMAS and praying Kelsey’s family is holding that precious baby close to their hearts.

 

[CuriousCricket]

He likely wanted it to look like she had been murdered while on the way to see relatives, and assumed that that's where they would look.
Could be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking. Imo

I think so too, and I thought that was a possibility or that she wrecked off the road in an area where she could not been seen.

But I could not get past both her cars being home. If she had gone off with someone else, then they had to be missing too.

That is the glaring mistake in this -- IMO.

If he could have driven one of her vehicles into a remote mountainous area and rolled it off the side of the mountain somewhere he would have been in much better shape.

BUT he would have been forced to hike back home, and the time necessary prob. created its own set of problems.

To me, the biggest problem was her cars being home.

 

[jewelsmac]

I think his mother got sincerely attached to the kid and expressed fear that the baby could be moved away.

I completely agree. I think the fact that his mother provided care for the baby is a bigger factor than is being discussed.

 

[jewelsmac]

.


Yes. But he was financially dependent on mom. Possibly, emotionally, too. And if mom was constantly fearful about the perceived loss of the child, then it could be the reason in his mind.

this