CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #17 *ARREST*

[OldLadyBlues]

I like this theory, and find it entirely plausible.

I've been thinking about this being one or the other, premeditated vs crime of passion. I ruled out crime of passion because of the obvious premeditation element, but that might very well be flawed thinking.

This could still be an opportunistic crime, regardless of his prior actions.

I've pretty much viewed this as opportunistic, Massguy, because I've also thought PF to be somewhat of a narcissist. Look what KB did for him....fell in love with him, moved for him, had a baby, perhaps bought the condo so they had a place to live, then most probably woke up to the manipulation she was also submitting to. But the most important part of a narcissist? Don't EVER cross them or go against them because they have snap 'fly off the radar' anger and can be just downright mean!
Their brain wiring is just different than ours. They are directors of their own worlds feeling far superior to most, when really they can be inferior. I also think this is the reason he remains quiet. Even though he has screwed up royally, he still views his master plan as being unflawed and totally justified which in his mind, makes him not only innocent in his own eyes, but he may even feel that eventually normal people and LE will see the error of their ways.
This is why I have also considered this case delicate.....because he had his daughter with him. And I also think this is why they were so quick on his arrest. His daughter had to be removed to protective custody to get her away from his control.
IMHO, IMHO, IMHO!

 

[Steelslady]

/The Twin Falls police department may have to cut back on resources in the Kelsey case as a Callie Heck is now reported missing. This young girl went missing only a few hours ago. KMVT web site and Twin Falls police department Facebook. Hoping everything turns out ok (Southern Idaho News Weather Sports Obits | KMVT | Magic Valley)

Oh no, I hope Callie is found safe and sound soon! Is there a thread for her already?

 

[enelram]

Article from 12/11 KB's uncle says KB moved to Sandpoint after
getting her pilot education at local community college. So she
followed her parents to Idaho when they retired. Possibly
living with them?
When the reporter asked her parents about PF, they stated they
"don't really know him" when questioned about his "character".

Vanished: Authorities investigating disappearance of ex-Warden woman

 

[Hatfield]

/The Twin Falls police department may have to cut back on resources in the Kelsey case as a Callie Heck is now reported missing. This young girl went missing only a few hours ago. KMVT web site and Twin Falls police department Facebook. Hoping everything turns out ok (Southern Idaho News Weather Sports Obits | KMVT | Magic Valley)

Thanks for this update. I had to modify your link a little to get it to work for me. Maybe because of the parenthesis or something. Link to article below

Southern Idaho News Weather Sports Obits | KMVT | Magic Valley

 

[Elley Mae]

"How did this end in murder," you ask? I think PF and KB were "drifting" for a while. Maintaining the status quo for appearance sake. Not broken up but the cracks where visible, at least to them. PF cheated on a former girlfriend as per Daily Mail article quoted by a SO of a former girlfriend of PF. So there's a history of sorts with straying, for him. We KNOW this was a premeditated act as per charges filed against him. I bet LE already know where his sights/sites were set. Trolling for the next one. KB was really too good for him and he probably felt she'd figured that out. She was a successful professional by all accounts. He was stuck with mom, for whatever reason. He wanted to start fresh, with a new, naive/gullable dish and perhaps he thought he could play this performance a little better in Act III, because let's face it, the last two Acts weren't a stellar performance. I can't get into his head, but I think he loves baby K, "whatever love is" to him (are not those the words Prince C used during an interview with DS before she entered that disastrous union?) His only obstacle to moving on was is KB, because he would be unwilling not to have full custody and he would have to fight for it. He wants complete control. Did he have the funds for that battle? And, could he even win it? In his sick twisted mind the only option was to "disappear" KB, so he could move ahead unhindered pursuing a new love "fantasy" with his daughter and no interference from KB. JMO

edit: spelling

I’m here as well.

 

[Elley Mae]

"How did this end in murder," you ask? I think PF and KB were "drifting" for a while. Maintaining the status quo for appearance sake. Not broken up but the cracks where visible, at least to them. PF cheated on a former girlfriend as per Daily Mail article quoted by a SO of a former girlfriend of PF. So there's a history of sorts with straying, for him. We KNOW this was a premeditated act as per charges filed against him. I bet LE already know where his sights/sites were set. Trolling for the next one. KB was really too good for him and he probably felt she'd figured that out. She was a successful professional by all accounts. He was stuck with mom, for whatever reason. He wanted to start fresh, with a new, naive/gullable dish and perhaps he thought he could play this performance a little better in Act III, because let's face it, the last two Acts weren't a stellar performance. I can't get into his head, but I think he loves baby K, "whatever love is" to him (are not those the words Prince C used during an interview with DS before she entered that disastrous union?) His only obstacle to moving on was is KB, because he would be unwilling not to have full custody and he would have to fight for it. He wants complete control. Did he have the funds for that battle? And, could he even win it? In his sick twisted mind the only option was to "disappear" KB, so he could move ahead unhindered pursuing a new love "fantasy" with his daughter and no interference from KB. JMO

edit: spelling

 

[Gardener1850]

Oh no, I hope Callie is found safe and sound soon! Is there a thread for her already?

I didn't see one so I created one: ID - ID - Callie Diane Heck, 11, Twin Falls, 27 Dec 2018

 

[allboys]

Some discussion about a difference between conspiracy and solicitation in CO Law:

“A key difference between solicitation and conspiracy is that for the crime of conspiracy to take place, there must be an agreement between at least two people to commit a crime and an overt act in furtherance of that agreement. In the offense of criminal solicitation, on the other hand, the motive or intent of the person solicited is irrelevant to the question of whether the person soliciting the crime has violated the solicitation statute.”

Colorado’s "Criminal Solicitation" Laws (18-2-301 C.R.S.)

 

[PommyMommy]

The solicitation charge of first degree murder is a charge against PF. Doesn't that assume that he himself asked, begged, paid someone to try to kill Kelsey for him, or with him? It doesn't IMHO imply that anyone accepted this "request" or even acted on it. Thoughts?

From the district attorney:

"Under the solicitation statute, a suspect would not only have discussed committing a crime with another person but would have taken steps to see it through," May said.

"So, it isn't just a discussion," the prosecutor said. "You've actually done something that shows the firmness of your actions."
Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN

A legal analyst talks about the solicitation charge here (starting at the 2:12 mark):

 

[Writestuff]

Playing devil's advocate here...if the legal eagles would respond please
If the State cannot come up with formal charges by Dec 31st for whatever reason - lack of evidence, etc - will they have to release PF?

 

[jillianelaine]

Article from 12/11 KB's uncle says KB moved to Sandpoint after
getting her pilot education at local community college. So she
followed her parents to Idaho when they retired. Possibly
living with them?
When the reporter asked her parents about PF, they stated they
"don't really know him" when questioned about his "character".

Vanished: Authorities investigating disappearance of ex-Warden woman

Do we know whether KB's parents ever met PF. I may have read that one of the parents thought he was an "odd duck" from the get-go. Was that based on meeting him or maybe, not meeting him?

 

[NervousNellie]

I agree and have learned to appreciate everyone's thoughts on these cases. It really helps to get different ideas and different possibilities.

Over time something I learned about myself is I would be a terrible juror because I tend to flow with the tide. LOL
One minute Im ready to hang a person by their toenails and when a different person brings up another possibility or other facts about a case then I tend to flip flop. I have gotten better at trying to be open minded and to gather all the facts as we go forward and everyone's input is valuable to these cases.

Are we related? Because I do this same thing (and I'm a descendant of the Hatfield Clan!)

 

[enelram]

Do we know whether KB's parents ever met PF. I may have read that one of the parents thought he was an "odd duck" from the get-go. Was that based on meeting him or maybe, not meeting him?

They must have met him but maybe were only around him for a short time based on the dad's comments that "they were skeptical
of him".

 

[NanZDrew]

Back when my bro-in-law was single, he met a girl and they had a baby. As soon as she had the baby, she was done with him. She made it clear she wanted a child and not a man. He wanted to marry her but she wasn't having that. You just never know why people do what they do...

The custody case was filed after she was dead and after he was arrested my CPS. Several threads back it was explained by our VI.

 

[tictoc]

I'm looking up Gooding ID on Maps. What's there? Population 3k, en route to nowhere, 12 miles north off highway 84; Twin Falls, pop 49k, makes more sense as a stop-over...Why Gooding? There is a municipal airport. I can't see any reason for KB's phone to be there, other than a diversion. But why Gooding?
Twin Falls/Twin Falls County LE have issued the search warrants; Gooding is not in TF county.
If "items of evidence" from TF include phone, purse, contents of purse, why go to Gooding to send those texts?
AND, would the solicitation charge include the following scenario:
PF asks someone to take the phone & purse up to Idaho, send texts (on hiscue), and dispose?
Someone please just put me out of my misery.

 

[BingoBongo]

Do we know whether KB's parents ever met PF. I may have read that one of the parents thought he was an "odd duck" from the get-go. Was that based on meeting him or maybe, not meeting him?

Members of Sandpoint church continue prayers for Kelsey Berreth | FOX 28 Spokane

 

[jillianelaine]

They must have met him but maybe were only around him for a short time based on the dad's comments that "they were skeptical
of him".

Might her father be skeptical of him because he never accommodated her home for visits? And they never met him? Just a thought....

 

[Mae’s Friend]

I guess I’ve gotten a bit confused by the discussion centered on KB’s condo and her family’s LLC. I Had thought that the condo was in her name, not the LLC’s. If so, the LLC is acting as any bank or real estate lender — collect payments pursuant to a note between the LLC and KB, secured by a mortgage on the property. The family probably had an understanding as to the ultimate disposition of the condo, but it looks like a simple corporate vehicle set up to benefit KB.

 

[Elley Mae]

I'm looking up Gooding ID on Maps. What's there? Population 3k, en route to nowhere, 12 miles north off highway 84; Twin Falls, pop 49k, makes more sense as a stop-over...Why Gooding? There is a municipal airport. I can't see any reason for KB's phone to be there, other than a diversion. But why Gooding?
Twin Falls/Twin Falls County LE have issued the search warrants; Gooding is not in TF county.
If "items of evidence" from TF include phone, purse, contents of purse, why go to Gooding to send those texts?
AND, would the solicitation charge include the following scenario:
PF asks someone to take the phone & purse up to Idaho, send texts (on hiscue), and dispose?
Someone please just put me out of my misery.

Lol

The only thing I can come up with is that is where the phone was when who ever had it was asked to call PF/Kelsey’s work.

Eta seems that phone records would show who called KB’s phone.

 

[jillianelaine]

Members of Sandpoint church continue prayers for Kelsey Berreth | FOX 28 Spokane

"A close friend of the family, said Kelsey’s parents haven’t lost faith, but were skeptical of Frazee from the start, describing him as an “odd duck”.

I think PF is an odd duck. I've never met him. Sometimes we draw conclusions based on what we've heard or seen. Or in their case, maybe not seen. I think someone said her parents were retired. Did they visit Colorado often to see their first grandchild? Do we know if they were EVER together as a family of five? Or even four?