CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[cody22]

Exactly. But who? Especially if the killer is locked up...unless there is a second killer.

Family, friends, ???..... Some folks just don't like snitches period.

 

[SandyQLS]

How long can they keep the warrant sealed from the defense?

Great question.

 

[CuriousCricket]

To me, I took it that the mother was trying to say that she thought that something was already hurting or upsetting Kelsey, because a happy Kelsey would not leave the house like that.

I wondered if perhaps KBs beauty routine had changed after the birth of the baby. Perhaps before, when CB was most familiar with, KB would not leave the house without full hair and makeup. So that seeing her post-baby, with different priorities and amount of time, might have been a surprise.

 

[Gardener1850]

Since leaving Switzerland, I have been stuck on KBs condo as the murder scene and by God, I think KBs mother fed us a clue. Why would she make it a point to tell people that KB looked kind of messy for KB?
Well, KB told Mom she thought she and PF were spending time together that day. I'm going with normal girl-type behavior here now. KB ran to the store for something, hair uncombed. Got home, PF either met her there or showed up shortly thereafter. KB asked him to either watch the baby, or put her down for a nap while she showered. There was something that went on in that time period that he found to be unacceptable for the very last time and fury and opportunity took over. I think he went off on her in the bathroom. Perhaps the shower curtain is missing. To any person, the area is easily cleaned, but is it really? Blood has a mind of it's own.
I think he might have been (perhaps) in a frenzy, perhaps scared, and told someone what had occurred. A brother? A mother?
I was quite shocked at his appearance yesterday. Was that from sinking into mental illness further and being medicated or shock itself?
Interesting case. Making my old brain hurt.
MOO, MOO, IMHO

I agree with your possible scenario except for the part about "something he found unacceptable" happening. This was a premeditated crime according to the charges. He had asked someone to help him murder her. I think it's possible KB had asked PF to stop by and watch baby K while she showered and got ready to go out with them. Then PF might have attacked her (or taken the baby away and had someone else attack her) while she was in the shower.

Another clue that KB's mom might have inadvertently given was that she seemed to avoid mentioning the clothes KB was wearing. The reporter mentioned the store video and asked what she noticed-- trying to get CB to say if people should be looking for KB in the clothing she had on at the store. But CB seems to avoid talking about the clothes-- she mentions her hair and Baby K being in the car seat indicating how strong KB was instead. I wonder if avoiding mentioning the clothes is an indication the clothes KB wore to the store were found in her home. MOO.

 

[PrairieWind]

How long can they keep the warrant sealed from the defense?

There isn't a hard rule. But once PF enters his plea of "not guilty" which could come as early at the 31st, the clock will start ticking on the speedy trial requirement. I imagine at that time the court will unseal the warrant to the defense team at least. The prosecution may try to push back arraignment and additional formal charges and the court may allow that for a week or two. But that may prompt the defense to file a motion to force arraignment or release him from jail. The judge will give the prosecution the benefit of the doubt for now, but that wont go on indefinitely.

 

[PommyMommy]

I agree with you. The state wants to continue to keep everything in the case a big secret, not from the media and public (who cares), but also from the arrestee, his defense attorney and whoever the state suspects. It means they don't have their case together and discovery is delayed. Did they offer a new date for this unsealing of the AW?

No, I don't see any proposed date for it to be unsealed.
MOO

 

[Hatfield]

If I'm reading that statement correctly his family are considered witnesses and named in the arrest affidavit. In that it states he's not to have contact with anyone names in the arrest affidavit except his family, it would lead me to believe they've been named in the arrest affidavit.

JMO
I agree and Im wondering why they would even let him see anyone named in the arrest affidativ. Seems to me that anyone named should be excluded from him getting to see them even if it is a family member named.

There is something called "collusion" that is very possible if he is allowed to talk to anyone that may be involved in this in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Mercedes]

See... that was my point in saying I was not using the term "hostile" with any legal knowledge. (Thanks for the lesson, though!) I was using what I knew to be a legal term in what I meant to be merely an adjective describing his actions (or lack of). Sorry I wasn't clear. My point was that he isn't helping his case by not respecting the court and its processes - even if his response is "I plead the 5th," it would be better than silence.

You were clear!

 

[NervousNellie]

You were clear!

Okay. I get it. Thanks for the detailed info you provided! Very informative.

 

[cluciano63]

Whatever took place in her condo...must not have been obvious to her brother, etc...so I doubt things like a shower curtain missing for example. Police had to take it apart to find their evidence.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Family, friends, ???..... Some folks just don't like snitches period.

I don't get the feeling that this is about snitches.

For awhile now jillianelaine has been saying KB stumbled across illegal activity that got her killed.

The way the document is worded, "the People believe that disclosure of this information at this juncture may seriously jeopardize the physical safety of potential witnesses in this investigation" leads me to wonder what indeed they are dealing with and where the investigation has led.

 

[NervousNellie]

JMO
I agree and Im wondering why they would even let him see anyone named in the arrest affidativ. Seems to me that anyone named should be excluded from him getting to see them even if it is a family member named.

There is something called "collusion" that is very possible if he is allowed to talk to anyone that may be involved in this in any way, shape, or form.

Any conversations he has with family (or anyone at this point) would be recorded, right? So let them collude, IMO.

 

[SandyQLS]

No, I don't see any proposed date for it to be unsealed.
MOO

I downloaded and read the docs now. Many thanks for posting them and being on top of it.

 

[cody22]

Whatever took place in her condo...must not have been obvious to her brother, etc...so I doubt things like a shower curtain missing for example. Police had to take it apart to find their evidence.

From the size and look of the larger wrapped material, removed from the house by LE, I am guessing the kitchen area, was where she was killed......MOO

 

[SandyQLS]

There isn't a hard rule. But once PF enters his plea of "not guilty" which could come as early at the 31st, the clock will start ticking on the speedy trial requirement. I imagine at that time the court will unseal the warrant to the defense team at least. The prosecution may try to push back arraignment and additional formal charges and the court may allow that for a week or two. But that may prompt the defense to file a motion to force arraignment or release him from jail. The judge will give the prosecution the benefit of the doubt for now, but that wont go on indefinitely.

How can he be arraigned and enter any plea when they won't unseal the AW? I read the docs but I have no idea whether the motions are boilerplate. The PD office sounds offended in their response. I think Monday Dec 31 will be continued.

 

[cody22]

Any conversations he has with family (or anyone at this point) would be recorded, right? So let them collude, IMO.

Would his Defense Lawyer let PF's family know what was in those arrest documents ?

 

[gypsysoul]

At this point in the investigation, what does LE tell KB's parents? Do they know a lot more than we do, or does LE keep the details under wraps from them as well??

 

[Gardener1850]

From the size and look of the larger wrapped material, removed from the house by LE, I am guessing the kitchen area, was where she was killed......MOO

Oh my. I hate to even bring it up, but how would you explain the cinnamon rolls being left uncovered in the kitchen if she was killed there? Wouldn't whoever cleaned up the scene have thrown them away?

 

[katydid23]

Just a guess---but I think the witnesses that he is not allowed to communicate with might be ones in Twin Falls. I still think there might be a girlfriend up there somewhere. Maybe she had no idea what was going on, but she may have accidentally helped him cover things up. ?

 

[PommyMommy]

How can he be arraigned and enter any plea when they won't unseal the AW? I read the docs but I have no idea whether the motions are boilerplate. The PD office sounds offended in their response. I think Monday Dec 31 will be continued.

The Dec 31 court date is not an arraignment. It is an advisement.

This is a helpful legal guide for Colorado Criminal Procedure in First Degree Murder cases that I had saved from the Watts case:
Colorado Criminal Procedure in First Degree - Guides - Avvo
MOO