CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[cody22]

Oh my. I hate to even bring it up, but how would you explain the cinnamon rolls being left uncovered in the kitchen if she was killed there? Wouldn't whoever cleaned up the scene have thrown them away?

If only those leftover from breakfast cinnamon rolls could talk...........

 

[SandyQLS]

JMO
I agree and Im wondering why they would even let him see anyone named in the arrest affidativ. Seems to me that anyone named should be excluded from him getting to see them even if it is a family member named.

There is something called "collusion" that is very possible if he is allowed to talk to anyone that may be involved in this in any way, shape, or form.

There is already a protection order in place for that.

 

[Mercedes]

Since leaving Switzerland, I have been stuck on KBs condo as the murder scene and by God, I think KBs mother fed us a clue. Why would she make it a point to tell people that KB looked kind of messy for KB?
Well, KB told Mom she thought she and PF were spending time together that day. I'm going with normal girl-type behavior here now. KB ran to the store for something, hair uncombed. Got home, PF either met her there or showed up shortly thereafter. KB asked him to either watch the baby, or put her down for a nap while she showered. There was something that went on in that time period that he found to be unacceptable for the very last time and fury and opportunity took over. I think he went off on her in the bathroom. Perhaps the shower curtain is missing. To any person, the area is easily cleaned, but is it really? Blood has a mind of it's own.
I think he might have been (perhaps) in a frenzy, perhaps scared, and told someone what had occurred. A brother? A mother?
I was quite shocked at his appearance yesterday. Was that from sinking into mental illness further and being medicated or shock itself?
Interesting case. Making my old brain hurt.
MOO, MOO, IMHO

In my very humble opinion, if he won’t talk, he won’t take medication either. And you really can’t push it down his throat.

Mental illness exacerbated. I believe very stressful situations can exacerbate mental illness. As a example, if you want to classify depression as a mental illness, and depression covers a broad spectrum, depression, IMO, can be exacerbated by stress. It can also lead to hallucinations, borderline psychotic behavior. While I don’t see that here, he could be very depressed, sleeping a lot, not caring about his appearance, etc.

I don’t know much about mental shock.

I also don’t know what happens to narcissists when they get knocked off their pedestal. I have read they get angry, lash out, etc. I don’t know if they cry. I read somewhere that he had slept almost the entire time he has been in jail.
Perhaps he didn’t sleep much for days before his arrest, perhaps depression has kicked in big time which causes fatigue and excess sleep.

I would be the first one to say that I don’t understand his personality. Someone really got to him and told him to keep his trap shut. Based upon comments from his first attorney, PF must have spoken to him. Curious if he has spoken with the public defender assigned to him. I almost doubt it.

MassGuy, anyone else, how do you make someone talk without torture or breaking the law. Sleep deprivation? I bet you can’t.

 

[BRRI]

Oh my. I hate to even bring it up, but how would you explain the cinnamon rolls being left uncovered in the kitchen if she was killed there? Wouldn't whoever cleaned up the scene have thrown them away?

Or ate them.

 

[Gardener1850]

Would his Defense Lawyer let PF's family know what was in those arrest documents ?

If the Chris Watts case is any indication of what is typical, then I'm guessing no. CW's family was upset that his defense lawyers would not tell them anything and would not let them discuss with CW what they thought he should do. Every time they called to try to talk to someone about the case and CW's defense they got transferred to a "social worker" (that's what they called her but I think it was a victim's advocate of some sort). Since PF is an adult then his family doesn't get any info from his attorneys unless it's something PF wants to communicate to them (he is free to call them or let them visit him-- all conversations will be recorded though). But the smart attorneys will tell him-- don't talk to anyone about the case, not even your mother. JMO.

 

[BRRI]

Just a guess---but I think the witnesses that he is not allowed to communicate with might be ones in Twin Falls. I still think there might be a girlfriend up there somewhere. Maybe she had no idea what was going on, but she may have accidentally helped him cover things up. ?

Yes, could be. Or if there is a girlfriend there, she could be the witness

 

[bestill]

If only those leftover from breakfast cinnamon rolls could talk...........

Maybe they have, I still think the cinnamon rolls are important and may have dna on them from someone involved in this.

 

[Elley Mae]

Did PF have key to Kelsey’s? If she was in the shower & it did occur there maybe that is what the ladder was used for. Maybe had to use ladder to access pipes.

 

[gitana1]

The baby is just over a year old, and most likely won’t have any memory of any of this.

Still, the baby is currently experiencing loss and grief. And not remembering it doesn't mean she won't be affected psychologically for life.

It's trauma and children are not at all resilient. They are especially affected by trauma. Particularly sensitive to it. So many mental illnesses that can afflict a person, stem back in part to experiences in childhood, whether remembered or not.

Depression. Anxiety. Attachment disorders. Personality disorders. OCD. Bi polar disorder.

All can have roots in childhood environment and experiences.

 

[K9Enzo]

MassGuy, anyone else, how do you make someone talk without torture or breaking the law. Sleep deprivation? I bet you can’t.

IMO, they might use his child to get him to talk. What her life will be moving forward, her wellbeing without her parents, etc. They will try to appeal to a closed off side of him right now.

I'm probably odd one out in my opinion here - but I believe he truly loves his daughter, even cherishes her.

 

[SandyQLS]

The Dec 31 court date is not an arraignment. It is an advisement.

This is a helpful legal guide for Colorado Criminal Procedure in First Degree Murder cases that I had saved from the Watts case:
Colorado Criminal Procedure in First Degree - Guides - Avvo
MOO

Thanks! It's so different in every jurisdiction. Here it is just arraignment - but you are correct, the docket says First Appearance which would be Advisement in CO. I also found this link helpful:

"Advisement hearings" in Colorado criminal court cases.

 

[Gardener1850]

If only those leftover from breakfast cinnamon rolls could talk...........

Well if she was violently killed in the kitchen they might! Hopefully they were bagged an tagged at some point. It's a really tiny kitchen. I can not imagine a scenario where they would be taking her cabinet doors, for instance, and no evidence ended up on uncovered cinnamon rolls.

 

[jillianelaine]

Yes, this is what I'm going with as well on the hair comments. I also think KB might have told her mother what time PF was arriving to take them to dinner. So she might have known that KB was cutting it close being at the store at that time and not ready to go anywhere. Or perhaps CB knew that PF's truck was seen at the townhome by a neighbor between 12:30 and 1 PM. I wonder if KB normally used a straightening iron to style her hair everyday? CB had been in KB's home and might have known if there was no evidence that KB did her hair after arriving back from the store. JMO.

Absolutely! I was shocked, when her mother expressed shock that her hair wasn't done! I had previously read that Kelsey liked the outdoors which often doesn't always go hand in hand with doing your hair and fixing your makeup. Kelsey didn't have to work that day--and it was still relatively early in the day. The only thing I could come up with was that she had told her mother that she had relatively special plans at an early part of the day!

 

[gitana1]

The one problem the B family faces in the custody issue would be that they will be taking the baby 1000 miles away to another state. The P family is intervening in CO while they can to probably get visition more than full custody because once the child is out of the first state's jurisdiction, it's another whole complication. The B's are present now in CO, so it's a good thing to move forward quickly, not a bad thing.

Can anyone clarify - I know SF filed the motion to intervene, but did PF's father also file, or was that MSM bad reporting? Thx.

In dependency cases it is not uncommon for a child to go to a relative in another state. It happens not infrequently.

If the court determines that's the best option for the baby the court won't hesitate in placing the baby with them.

I'm imagining they're already back in ID in fact.

I am curious why the child was immediately placed with them. I'm gratified. For numerous reasons. (For example we heard of zero reaching out by the parental grandparents to the horrified and terrified and bereft maternal grandmother who was there in the state desperately looking for her daughter and who could've used a hug of the sweet baby PF cruelly withheld from her. No ontervention so she could see the baby. No mother reaching out to another mother, who was part of the family that was going to be in laws. Says a lot to me right there).

But I'd like to know why. PF's mother apparently spent a huge amount of time caring for the baby and the baby lived at least part time in her home. She lives in-state. Why wouldn't that be the first option?

I'm curious.

I hope the baby is able to stay with the Berreths.

 

[BRRI]

Well if she was violently killed in the kitchen they might! Hopefully they were bagged an tagged at some point. It's a really tiny kitchen. I can not imagine a scenario where they would be taking her cabinet doors, for instance, and no evidence ended up on uncovered cinnamon rolls.

I’ve said from the beginning, watch the cinnamon buns be the key to it all

 

[Jupiter05]

From the size and look of the larger wrapped material, removed from the house by LE, I am guessing the kitchen area, was where she was killed......MOO

Did we hear somewhere that LE removed part of her shower to test for evidence? I know I saw it somewhere, but not sure where. IMO

 

[PrairieWind]

Thanks! It's so different in every jurisdiction. Here it is just arraignment - but you are correct, the docket says First Appearance which would be Advisement in CO. I also found this link helpful:

"Advisement hearings" in Colorado criminal court cases.

He already made on initial appearance and waived advisement. I am not sure, but I think the hearing on the 31st was set because the DA had anticipated formal charges to be filed by then and they would likely do a new initial appearance. That may not happen. But the hearing may still go forward and the judge may treat it more like a status conference and ask the DA when/if new charges will be made. If the DA doesn't anticipate more, the judge will set an arraignment or maybe ask the defense if they want to enter a plea at that time. I would think that LE will be working like crazy today and over the weekend.

 

[The Farm]

Whatever took place in her condo...must not have been obvious to her brother, etc...so I doubt things like a shower curtain missing for example. Police had to take it apart to find their evidence.

I agree but something made LE go back and look in more detail.

What I never understood is how did her brother who lives in Washington State know there was nothing missing from her place.
Did he go there often, if this happened to me no one walking into my house would really know what was missing or not aside looking for my purse, keys or phone.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

"
The day before his arrest in the murder of his still-missing fiancée, a Colorado man gave no indication that he was worried.

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek."

"While authorities have declined to discuss the couple’s custody arrangement, Cline says Frazee was the primary caretaker for their daughter — and would have had no reason to know immediately that Berreth had gone missing.

He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past."

Much more at link

 

[NanZDrew]

In dependency cases it is not uncommon for a child to go to a relative in another state. It happens not infrequently.

If the court determines that's the best option for the baby the court won't hesitate in placing the baby with them.

I'm imagining they're already back in ID in fact.

I am curious why the child was immediately placed with them. I'm gratified. For numerous reasons. (For example we heard of zero reaching out by the parental grandparents to the horrified and terrified and bereft maternal grandmother who was there in the state desperately looking for her daughter and who could've used a hug of the sweet baby PF cruelly withheld from her. No ontervention so she could see the baby. No mother reaching out to another mother, who was part of the family that was going to be in laws. Says a lot to me right there).

But I'd like to know why. PF's mother apparently spent a huge amount of time caring for the baby and the baby lived at least part time in her home. She lives in-state. Why wouldn't that be the first option?

I'm curious.

I hope the baby is able to stay with the Berreths.

You echoed my opinions exactly. I'm glad to hear an attorney who sees these cases routinely express similar sentiments.