CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[jillianelaine]

I don't get the feeling that this is about snitches.

For awhile now jillianelaine has been saying KB stumbled across illegal activity that got her killed.

The way the document is worded, "the People believe that disclosure of this information at this juncture may seriously jeopardize the physical safety of potential witnesses in this investigation" leads me to wonder what indeed they are dealing with and where the investigation has led.

Yes, that woman whom you just referenced (smile) has firmly convinced herself that Kelsey stumbled across something (probably illegal) that ultimately played a role in her death. I firmly believe that more than one person wanted her silenced, ergo the bold solicitation. And that the day she probably died (Thanksgiving Day), coupled with the day the texts arrived (the last day of that holiday weekend) was more than a coincidence and most likely related to the dates someone arrived from, and departed to Idaho. Someone who came back to Colorado to spend the holiday with their family/friends. I believes that someone who shared the interest in silencing Kelsey (but whom did not take a part in an actual murder) is providing LE with information to include where/how she was killed, and the general vicinity where the body is located. Whether that person went to the police hoping for some sort of immunity or lesser sentence, or whether the police were able to locate that person, for me--remains a mystery. But in either scenario, I believe that individual lead them to Kelsey's phone and is the same person who was solicited for Kelsey's murder. IMO, the death of Kelsey B. was motivated by something far more complex than a typical domestic/custody issue. IMO IMO IMO

 

[PrairieWind]

I followed a case years ago, not at WS, where the prosecution just strung together garbage evidence. There was no murder at all and the incompetence of the state was appalling. The state has unlimited resources against the individual. Jurisdictional semantics aside, the state is delaying showing their evidence to the defendant while he is stuck in a jail cell for an indeterminate period of time, and I do not support this per the public defender response, although I understand the judge has ruled/filed the order.

I think the State has compelling evidence here otherwise they would not have gotten that arrest warrant. But I also think that the continuing development of the case evidence hasn't proceeded as they had expected. I wonder if whoever this 3rd party that is giving them information is not cooperating as much as they hoped, or if that person maybe doesn't actually have the information that they thought. Or if they maybe have a good idea where the body is, but are having difficulty getting to it. The comment earlier that residence should expect activity in the Woodland Park area is interesting.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It appears to me from all of the articles, videos and clips of PF I've seen he comes across as extremely withdrawn, silent, and non expressive. I haven't glimpsed one shred of emotion good or bad from him at all except annoyance.

As crazy as it sounds, he looks to me like he couldn't care less about what's going on around him. He's sleeping away his days in jail without worry or concern IMO. I can't figure out if it's arrogance, psychopathy, delusion IDK??? Maybe all?

ETA: Except the dog "training" videos. Oh those gave me the willies! Not nice.

 

[Noharg]

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek.

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

New cellphone number.

Wonder if it was a “throw away” phone. JMO Was it also turned in to LE?

 

[The Farm]

She only just bought the place in May and it is not very big. Perhaps her brother and brother-in-law came to help her move in? There is a recent photo of Kelsey with baby K and Kelsey's mom in this video: Kelsey Berreth case: Parents of missing Colorado mom get custody of child
That tells me her family had come to see her recently. JMO.

Thanks for the video, I had not seen that one yet. Amazing how the three generations all look so much alike.

Yes I realize she had only been there since May and I suppose he was looking for the obvious as I stated above including maybe her toothbrush. And it is a small place with maybe an extra closet area for some storage as they usually do have that.

 

[1mtroyal]

In relistening to the DA's comments at the second press conference, and in reference to what solicitation meant, he said it is a crime to "solicit someone to commit another crime". Attaching that to the charges, it would play out this way: Patrick Frazee is charged with First Degree Murder and Solicitation to Commit First Degree Murder (solicit someone to commit another crime). That might be soliciting someone to send some messages from a phone from a murdered person, and PK might not have solicitated someone to have done the actual murder.

 

[susiQ]

I don't get the feeling that this is about snitches.

For awhile now jillianelaine has been saying KB stumbled across illegal activity that got her killed.

The way the document is worded, "the People believe that disclosure of this information at this juncture may seriously jeopardize the physical safety of potential witnesses in this investigation" leads me to wonder what indeed they are dealing with and where the investigation has led.

I think I'm finally getting to see this "angle" as being a possibility. When the heat was being turned up on PF as a suspect, he may have realized he has made himself a target of some other nefarious individuals that have something to hide. Just thinking. When LE apprehended him and detained his mom on the laneway out of the property, did they do so because they feared he was taking baby K to a secret place with a trusted friend? That lends itself to LE having had to execute the arrest warrant earlier than they wanted to. If I recall correctly, both he and SF had their vehicles. Were they planning a switch with the baby a bit down the road, where SF takes her somewhere to hide? SF's vehicle would draw less attention? I may be way off here. Just thoughts racing through my head

 

[otto]

OMG, this guy is a special kind of stupid, IMO. I'd be curious to know why he "contends Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned." Repeating what PF tells you does not make it fact.

Edited to add:

And this quote from the article: "While authorities have declined to discuss the couple’s custody arrangement, Cline says Frazee was the primary caretaker for their daughter — and would have had no reason to know immediately that Berreth had gone missing."

Umm, really? So this guy's definition of "immediately" is "within ten days"?

It is interesting that PF friends claim that Kelsey frequently "disappeared", while her family claims that she does not "run off." When I first started reading this discussion, the general tone was that she was a fit, healthy runner / hiker who often / usually left her daughter in the care of in-laws and disappeared without telling anyone where she was going. My impression was that parenting was a burden and that she preferred a carefree and responsibility-free life.

Many comments were removed and "insiders" were encouraged to be verified so their comments could remain. I have since wondered if that general tone was set by PF friends and family, as it gave the impression that her disappearance was normal even though no one could answer questions about who last saw her, or where and when that was.

"Cline says Frazee was the primary caretaker for their daughter — and would have had no reason to know immediately that Berreth had gone missing. He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past.
...

“She’s not the kind that runs off,” her mom told reporters on Dec. 10, her voice shaking with emotion.”
​

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

 

[jillianelaine]

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

"
The day before his arrest in the murder of his still-missing fiancée, a Colorado man gave no indication that he was worried.

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek."

"While authorities have declined to discuss the couple’s custody arrangement, Cline says Frazee was the primary caretaker for their daughter — and would have had no reason to know immediately that Berreth had gone missing.

He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past."

Much more at link

Bet this aint the only time an extra phone came in handy!

 

[Jessthinkin]

Anybody else thinking these "potential witnesses" may be giving evidence r/t the solicitation to murder charge?
*ETA: Also, it's interesting that the DA's office thinks the safety of witnesses is in jeopardy given that PF is in custody. Nobody else has been charged (yet).
So who poses a physical threat to witnesses, I wonder?
Thoughts?

Yes, I definitely have some thoughts but want to stay on the correct side of TOS.... time will tell, though...

 

[cluciano63]

I don’t think LE rushed, or was rushed to arrest him. I think they had enough for the warrant and followed through.

 

[GordianKnot]

Yes, I definitely have some thoughts but want to stay on the correct side of TOS.... time will tell, though...

JT, I understand. Mum's the word, so to speak.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

"
The day before his arrest in the murder of his still-missing fiancée, a Colorado man gave no indication that he was worried.

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek."

"While authorities have declined to discuss the couple’s custody arrangement, Cline says Frazee was the primary caretaker for their daughter — and would have had no reason to know immediately that Berreth had gone missing.

He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past."

Much more at link

Wow. Sticking to the Kelsey has taken off before narrative. Hmmmmmmmm.

 

[Jessthinkin]

JT, I understand. Mum's the word, so to speak.

Yup, and Bob’s your uncle.

 

[The Saint]

Yes, that woman whom you just referenced (smile) has firmly convinced herself that Kelsey stumbled across something (probably illegal) that ultimately played a role in her death. I firmly believe that more than one person wanted her silenced, ergo the bold solicitation. And that the day she probably died (Thanksgiving Day), coupled with the day the texts arrived (the last day of that holiday weekend) was more than a coincidence and most likely related to the dates someone arrived from, and departed to Idaho. Someone who came back to Colorado to spend the holiday with their family/friends. I believes that someone who shared the interest in silencing Kelsey (but whom did not take a part in an actual murder) is providing LE with information to include where/how she was killed, and the general vicinity where the body is located. Whether that person went to the police hoping for some sort of immunity or lesser sentence, or whether the police were able to locate that person, for me--remains a mystery. But in either scenario, I believe that individual lead them to Kelsey's phone and is the same person who was solicited for Kelsey's murder. IMO, the death of Kelsey B. was motivated by something far more complex than a typical domestic/custody issue. IMO IMO IMO

Once again, I am reminded of the Fred Tokars case in Atlanta. His wife wanted a divorce and custody of the kids. I believe that she told her husband that she would blow the whistle on his drug dealing which would cost him his license to practice law and probably a jail sentence. He then hired someone to kill her.

Times were tough for PF. Maybe he turned to illegal activities to make money.

 

[Gardener1850]

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

"
The day before his arrest in the murder of his still-missing fiancée, a Colorado man gave no indication that he was worried.

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek."

"While authorities have declined to discuss the couple’s custody arrangement, Cline says Frazee was the primary caretaker for their daughter — and would have had no reason to know immediately that Berreth had gone missing.

He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past."

Much more at link

Colleague of fiance arrested on murder charge speaks

PF friend Clinton Cline speaks on news video

Wait, is this the same friend who said his wife watched baby K while he and PF went out to work? In the above video gliving posted he is saying PF was watching over baby K and was taking care of her. But it doesn't sound like PF was able to do that if he depended on his colleague's wife to watch his daughter so he could work. I bet PF gave that person and his wife some false sob story about KB leaving him without childcare options at the last minute so they would agree to watch baby K for a few hours. I'm guessing PF knew how to work people to make himself look good. And the result also made Kelsey look bad. But I'm betting KB had to work and PF agreed to take care of the baby. Why wasn't his mom watching her? Maybe PF used his daughter to set up this false narrative that he was the one always having to take care of her. He might have agreed to have her during the day but I also think KB might not have know he was dragging their daughter around and making it seem like she forced him to take care of the baby. This was a ploy for sympathy by PF IMO.

 

[Noharg]

There's some interesting comments along with photos on a non authorized fb page...I'm sure that WS members have read them. Waiting to see if there's any truth to it. Hope I can say this much without going against WS rules.

I haven’t.

 

[jillianelaine]

I agree but something made LE go back and look in more detail.

What I never understood is how did her brother who lives in Washington State know there was nothing missing from her place.
Did he go there often, if this happened to me no one walking into my house would really know what was missing or not aside looking for my purse, keys or phone.

Something, or someone!
Good point. How did the brother know nothing was missing?
I suspect he was primarily focused on items that indicated she was traveling. specifically luggage. Why would he be familiar with her luggage? Maybe they purchased it together when she moved to Colorado. Or maybe he bought it for her. Or perhaps, it was his former luggage. Kelsey may have been a "stay at home" type of person right up to the time she moved and for that reason, the luggage may have been recently acquired with his help. Whatever the reason, he seemed firmly convinced that nothing was missing.

 

[KBB87]

Wow. Sticking to the Kelsey has taken off before narrative. Hmmmmmmmm.

Lol this is such a stupid hill for this guy to die on. The police have said they believe her to be deceased. They would never say that unless they had some kind of evidence of her death.

Even if running off were completely normal for her, the police having evidence that KB is dead and evidence that PF solicited someone to murder her, make these alleged disappearances completely irrelevant to the situation.

 

[Trudie]

Thanks for the video, I had not seen that one yet. Amazing how the three generations all look so much alike.

Yes I realize she had only been there since May and I suppose he was looking for the obvious as I stated above including maybe her toothbrush. And it is a small place with maybe an extra closet area for some storage as they usually do have that.

I was thinking they’d traveled together frequently, making him aware of her luggage & things she’d bring on a trip.