CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[justaparent]

The reporting in this case has been so horrible that in my opinion only the press conferences and press releases can be relied on.

I also don’t believe that PF will plead anything other than not guilty unless there is very compelling evidence against him that could bring the death penalty and “might“ make him feel he needs to try for a plea-bargain. But no body, no guilty plea, no statements at all.

 

[Trudie]

Bet he misses his jeans & boots!
Of course he still has the big belt buckle. Only now, it’s locked.

 

[K9Enzo]

Cline says Frazee was the primary caretaker for their daughter — and would have had no reason to know immediately that Berreth had gone missing. He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past.

The above quote from the article. It's entirely possible he's recounting what he was told. Perhaps PF started some time ago, to plant unflattering seeds about KB as a person, and mom. With the goal when she did go missing, these things would be repeated (I'm leaning more towards this theory). Maybe it's all true. We, the outsiders looking in, really don't know until more of this case is released.

 

[Gardener1850]

It is interesting that PF friends claim that Kelsey frequently "disappeared", while her family claims that she does not "run off." When I first started reading this discussion, the general tone was that she was a fit, healthy runner / hiker who often / usually left her daughter in the care of in-laws and disappeared without telling anyone where she was going. My impression was that parenting was a burden and that she preferred a carefree and responsibility-free life.

Many comments were removed and "insiders" were encouraged to be verified so their comments could remain. I have since wondered if that general tone was set by PF friends and family, as it gave the impression that her disappearance was normal even though no one could answer questions about who last saw her, or where and when that was.

"Cline says Frazee was the primary caretaker for their daughter — and would have had no reason to know immediately that Berreth had gone missing. He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past.
...

“She’s not the kind that runs off,” her mom told reporters on Dec. 10, her voice shaking with emotion.”
​

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

The more I see the more I'm thinking KB worked some unconventional hours-- perhaps some nights and weekends? Perhaps PF agreed to care for the baby while she worked but perhaps he would lie and tell his friends and family he didn't know where KB was or what she was doing on a weekend when she had to work. He would only need to tell them that a few times to set up a false narrative that she was irresponsible and/or an uncaring mother. When the reality was that she was working hard making a living and probably saving up hoping to better their lives. MOO.

 

[NanZDrew]

Colleague of fiance arrested on murder charge speaks

PF friend Clinton Cline speaks on news video

Where have we heard this narrative before? Sounds like PF had a storyline for his family and friends worked out a little in advance. Reminds me of how Chris, who was quiet around his coworkers, also confided in them toward the end with his marital problems.

 

[otto]

Once again, I am reminded of the Fred Tokars case in Atlanta. His wife wanted a divorce and custody of the kids. I believe that she told her husband that she would blow the whistle on his drug dealing which would cost him his license to practice law and probably a jail sentence. He then hired someone to kill her.

Times were tough for PF. Maybe he turned to illegal activities to make money.

Maybe, but let's look at this more closely.

It seems that a custody hearing was set a month ago (per yesterday's discussion). That would mean that Kelsey had already met with lawyers and had sworn affidavits in support of custody. If she had any dirt about illegal activities, that information would have been in the paperwork, or at the very least provided to her lawyer. Murdering Kelsey after the custody application papers were filed would not prevent information about illegal activities from surfacing. I think it is unlikely that she was murdered to prevent her from revealing any possible illegal activities involving PF.

Thinking more carefully about the dates, she was murdered on Nov 22. Does anyone know the exact date that the custody hearing was booked?

 

[FlossiePotts]

Maybe, but let's look at this more closely.

It seems that a custody hearing was set a month ago (per yesterday's discussion). That would mean that Kelsey had already met with lawyers and had sworn affidavits in support of custody. If she had any dirt about illegal activities, that information would have been in the paperwork, or at the very least provided to her lawyer. Murdering Kelsey after the custody application papers were filed would not prevent information about illegal activities from surfacing. I think it is unlikely that she was murdered to prevent her from revealing any possible illegal activities involving PF.

Thinking more carefully about the dates, she was murdered on Nov 22. Does anyone know the exact date that the custody hearing was booked?

It has not been established when the custody hearing was booked or even if it was booked before her death.

 

[Trudie]

Yeah I wonder. I mean disability and illness don't eliminate a person from being able to have custody. As long as a person can adapt it's generally fine. Plenty of parents and grandparents who walk the same as her care for toddlers.

So I wonder. Is it more than that?

Absolutely. Even the Foster Parent Program does not disqualify a candidate based on a disability. Look st some of our courageous military men & women that have the most severe injuries, yet are fully capable of parenting.

I never had any doubt K’s family would be awarded custody. I can’t recall a case where a minor was placed in the home/family of the perp’.

I expect, as time progresses & visitation with Mrs. F is established, there will be strict stipulations. Especially when the child is older & talking.

 

[scdiv]

Ha! I hope he did just that. I hope he was cocky enough to think he deleted everything incriminating and that would be enough. The FBI can find deleted texts! MOO.

I'm thinking he had two phones and handed over the useless one to LE when he was being so "cooperative." Nothing to even delete. Like "search away!" Meanwhile still keeping possession of the phone where anything incriminating could be found or recovered.

 

[Trudie]

It has not been established when the custody hearing was booked or even if it was booked before her death.

Sorry, if this is known & verified. Did K & B “share” custody, previously?

If so, perhaps she wanted to renege on that arrangement & have full control. Not necessarily physical, but as far as decisions regarding religion, education, etc., decisions needing to be made in the future?

 

[NanZDrew]

Lol this is such a stupid hill for this guy to die on. The police have said they believe her to be deceased. They would never say that unless they had some kind of evidence of her death.

Even if running off were completely normal for her, the police having evidence that KB is dead and evidence that PF solicited someone to murder her, make these alleged disappearances completely irrelevant to the situation.

And as we have learned more about KB and her family, it seems unlikely KB did run off. Where did she run off to? She seemed to work alot and would not have been able to hold down that job. Maybe she just distanced herself from PF, which would have been understandable, and he considered that an abandonment.

 

[NanZDrew]

I'm thinking he had two phones and handed over the useless one to LE when he was being so "cooperative." Nothing to even delete. Like "search away!" Meanwhile still keeping possession of the phone where anything incriminating could be found or recovered.

What a great point. I hope LE is pushing CC for that number. I think you are right!!!

 

[jillianelaine]

I think the State has compelling evidence here otherwise they would not have gotten that arrest warrant. But I also think that the continuing development of the case evidence hasn't proceeded as they had expected. I wonder if whoever this 3rd party that is giving them information is not cooperating as much as they hoped, or if that person maybe doesn't actually have the information that they thought. Or if they maybe have a good idea where the body is, but are having difficulty getting to it. The comment earlier that residence should expect activity in the Woodland Park area is interesting.

Thinking outside the box. Is it possible that Kelsey's death is part of a larger investigation--something more than man kills woman and for this reason, things are progressing in a seemingly strange way? That they want even more than a body.... and releasing too much might jeopardize other touchy aspects of the "whole picture"?

 

[SandyQLS]

Lie.
Cline would have trouble getting through because LE had taken PFs phone!

Not necessarily a lie. If LE took your phone on which you regularly conduct business, you can simply buy another phone and have the same phone number. I do not doubt the media was swamping his phone with unwanted calls as well as not a few threats from nutcases, so he changed the number for the purpose of conducting his normal personal and business activities.

 

[The Saint]

I was thinking they’d traveled together frequently, making him aware of her luggage & things she’d bring on a trip.

Her brother's husband/partner said in an interviewed that the 3 of them had taken trips together that involved outdoor things like hiking.

 

[otto]

Sorry, if this is known & verified. Did K & B “share” custody, previously?

If so, perhaps she wanted to renege on that arrangement & have full control. Not necessarily physical, but as far as decisions regarding religion, education, etc., decisions needing to be made in the future?

We discussed this the other night - the reason why custody might be more of an issue now than it was when she was, for example, 4 months old. My impression is that Kelsey expected that they would get married and live together. Under that assumption, there would be no need to have a legal custody agreement.

The child was born in October 2017 so, by November 2018, it was probably clearer to Kelsey that marriage was only a possibility, and that she needed to establish a formal custody arrangement. There could be many reasons for this, but quality of day to day care may have been a priority. I can easily see that Kelsey was thinking more seriously about the long term care of her daughter as a single parent and the need to establish a formal agreement for her sake and that of her daughter.

 

[gitana1]

Absolutely. Even the Foster Parent Program does not disqualify a candidate based on a disability. Look st some of our courageous military men & women that have the most severe injuries, yet are fully capable of parenting.

I never had any doubt K’s family would be awarded custody. I can’t recall a case where a minor was placed in the home/family of the perp’.

I expect, as time progresses & visitation with Mrs. F is established, there will be strict stipulations. Especially when the child is older & talking.

Actually, I've seen numerous cases where the kids have been placed with the family of the perp. It has happened repeatedly.

Usually via guardianship cases.

 

[dkryder]

another thing to consider as far as her work schedule is that i have read the facility where she taught/instructed was 70 miles from her home. so, even if her classroom work and flight times were sorta scattered through the day with some off time i can't see her driving back and forth during even a 4 hour break in activity. i would guess she would get there fairly early and perhaps due to teaching night flight would stay until late. but that is just a guess based on some things i've read. for instance, she supposedly bought the small car specifically to go back and forth to work. likely is was better on gas than her truck.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

I saw somewhere they found part of the shower at the dump! I know for a fact I read that somewhere and can’t find it lol.

I think both of those things were SPECULATION ONLY here on WS.

 

[The Saint]

Thinking outside the box. Is it possible that Kelsey's death is part of a larger investigation--something more than man kills woman and for this reason, things are progressing in a seemingly strange way? That they want even more than a body.... and releasing too much might jeopardize other touchy aspects of the "whole picture"?

It's possible that PF solicited one person who turned him down, so he moved onto another person who went through with the contract hit. The first person could be cooperating with LE and they don't want the contract killer to kill the informer. (I think someone may have already proposed this scenario earlier.)