CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[NanZDrew]

BBM
That's an awful lot of gruesome words and thoughts that have no basis in reality.

We have to wait for more information to learn the cause of death. Imagining gruesome ways that a man might murder a woman in her own home seems a bit like viewing the murder as a spectator sport.

Police have indicated that she is deceased, and that her murder likely happened in her own home. That's it. We don't know any more and will not know until police reveal that information. We already know the possibilities.

Those are gruesome words, and there had to be evidence that something gruesome happened that would have been significant enough for them to determine that her life (not just an injury) had been taken in the home.

 

[NanZDrew]

Let's not run after some wild idea that PF had a girlfriend while engaged to Kelsey. This idea has been tossed around a bit, but until we know something perhaps we should leave it alone.

At this time, there is no third party to the marriage. There is a possible third person involved in the murder but we don't know who that is, why there were search warrants in Idaho, what evidence was gathered and why there has not been another arrest.

I read this as the girlfriend was Kelsey. He felt torn between his mother and Kelsey.

 

[KBB87]

To me PF looks lazy. Low energy. How he ever got the energy to murder KB confuses me. The motive had to be the baby. He fell in love with K. and he somehow was feeling threatened about her leaving him and taking the baby. They were ill matched, IMO. He probably wanted Susie Homemaker to stay home, doing all the farm house wifey things. KB was an ambitious career woman. I think she called her mom to get the cinnamon roll recipe to at least make something from scratch for Thanksgiving. I still don’t understand why she wasn’t going to his place for Thanksgiving dinner. Nothing wrong with going out to dinner for Thanksgiving but it is a family holiday. I am wondering if she did not get along with SF. MOO

Low energy? Where have I heard that before?

 

[otto]

Putting geographic pieces together ... work in progress

View attachment 161910

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek.

Given the circumstances — Kelsey Berreth, Frazee’s 29-year-old fiancée and mother to their 1-year-old daughter, who by then had been missing for 28 days — “I think that’s the last thing I would have been doing at that time, calling my customers and giving a new cell,” Cline says.
But while conceding it “sounds strange,” Cline believes Frazee’s actions suggest he had nothing to hide.

Cline tells PEOPLE that some media accounts have misrepresented the relationship between Frazee and Berreth, at least as Cline understood it.

He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past.

 

[NanZDrew]

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek.

Given the circumstances — Kelsey Berreth, Frazee’s 29-year-old fiancée and mother to their 1-year-old daughter, who by then had been missing for 28 days — “I think that’s the last thing I would have been doing at that time, calling my customers and giving a new cell,” Cline says.
But while conceding it “sounds strange,” Cline believes Frazee’s actions suggest he had nothing to hide.

Cline tells PEOPLE that some media accounts have misrepresented the relationship between Frazee and Berreth, at least as Cline understood it.

He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past.

Yep. We know where the "They were never engaged" rumors came from.

 

[KBB87]

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek.

Given the circumstances — Kelsey Berreth, Frazee’s 29-year-old fiancée and mother to their 1-year-old daughter, who by then had been missing for 28 days — “I think that’s the last thing I would have been doing at that time, calling my customers and giving a new cell,” Cline says.
But while conceding it “sounds strange,” Cline believes Frazee’s actions suggest he had nothing to hide.

Cline tells PEOPLE that some media accounts have misrepresented the relationship between Frazee and Berreth, at least as Cline understood it.

He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past.

It seems so irresponsible to me for a journalist to write something like “he contends Berreth had disappeared on other occasions...”

If you’re going to make an accusation like that, include the exact quote.

Did this witness say “Patrick said she was always running off?” or something similar to that? Or did he have information from someone that is not currently accused of killing her?

 

[gitana1]

BBM
That's an awful lot of gruesome words and thoughts that have no basis in reality.

We have to wait for more information to learn the cause of death. Imagining gruesome ways that a man might murder a woman in her own home seems a bit like viewing the murder as a spectator sport.

Police have indicated that she is deceased, and that her murder likely happened in her own home. That's it. We don't know any more and will not know until police reveal that information. We already know the possibilities.

I don't know. Some of those words have an absolute basis in reality IMO. They tore up that house and removed pieces of flooring and cabinets right before arresting him. Which logically indicates a ton of blood evidence.

This was murder. Not a tea party.

He is a good sized man. He got her out of the house somehow. He killed her somehow. I think the speculation in this instance is not outrageous.

 

[cluciano63]

If anything, the necessity by LE in tearing apart her home shows a serious clean up effort that was relatively successful...for a while. But either LE went back there with specific info that told them she was killed there, or they knew by then she was deceased and decided to find out. I think the former.

 

[otto]

I read this as the girlfriend was Kelsey. He felt torn between his mother and Kelsey.

Speculation about a girlfriend means someone other than his girlfriend Kelsey, and does not mean that his mother is the other woman.

 

[otto]

I don't know. Some of those words have an absolute basis in reality IMO. They tore up that house and removed pieces of flooring and cabinets right before arresting him. Which logically indicates a ton of blood evidence.

This was murder. Not a tea party.

He is a good sized man. He got her out of the house somehow. He killed her somehow. I think the speculation in this instance is not outrageous.

WARNING : GRAPHIC

Not outrageous, but given the absence of fact and information, it is unnecessarily gruesome. We all know that a woman can be killed in many ways including strangulation, incapacitation through beating, multiple stab injuries, kicked until teeth are avulsed, shot, and so it goes. Until we know more, what's the point of mentioning some of the gruesome ways that someone can be murdered?

 

[justpeachy22]

Wonder if he is thinking “man, I wish I could have a ‘do-over’” yet? I always think the first couple weeks of incarceration to be the hardest.

Mint/Kelly green do nothing for him. IMO

Geeze, if I lived in that county, the colors & wide horizontal stripes of the uniform would have me walking the line.

Yes, but that jail he’s in is too small for him to really break down quite yet. He’s pry exhausted and depressed. Once the evidence against him is fully presented to him and if he is moved into a big prison, he will give anything to have a redo.

 

[otto]

If anything, the necessity by LE in tearing apart her home shows a serious clean up effort that was relatively successful...for a while. But either LE went back there with specific info that told them she was killed there, or they knew by then she was deceased and decided to find out. I think the former.

Police searched the waste disposal site, then her house, then the arrest. Maybe one of her bed sheets was covered in blood and found in his waste disposal. We don't know. Something about that sequence of events led them to the evidence they needed to charge him with murder.

 

[justpeachy22]

Let's not run after some wild idea that PF had a girlfriend while engaged to Kelsey. This idea has been tossed around a bit, but until we know something perhaps we should leave it alone.

At this time, there is no third party to the marriage. There is a possible third person involved in the murder but we don't know who that is, why there were search warrants in Idaho, what evidence was gathered and why there has not been another arrest.

When I said girlfriend I was referring to KB. I should’ve stated that.

 

[otto]

When I said girlfriend I was referring to KB. I should’ve stated that.

There have been several comments suggesting that PF had a girlfriend and that is reason that Kelsey was murdered. There was nothing to suggest that all of these comments meant that his mother was his girlfriend.

Besides, everyone has a mother. When people suggest that a man has a fiance and a girlfriend, it doesn't mean his mother.

 

[SweetPeas56]

You Have the Right to Remain Silent

I accidentally posted this in the wrong place before. I find it interesting because his extreme silence is unnerving to me. MOO is that it's because he's guilty and doesn't want to risk a slip up. Still, it's not that easy to stay completely silent.

 

[justpeachy22]

There have been several comments suggesting that PF had a girlfriend and that is reason that Kelsey was murdered. There was nothing to suggest that all of these comments meant that his mother was his girlfriend.

Besides, everyone has a mother. When people suggest that a man has a fiance and a girlfriend, it doesn't mean his mother.

what? He was torn between kB and his mom. Jmo. End of story.

 

[MsBetsy]

There have been several comments suggesting that PF had a girlfriend and that is reason that Kelsey was murdered. There was nothing to suggest that all of these comments meant that his mother was his girlfriend.

Besides, everyone has a mother. When people suggest that a man has a fiance and a girlfriend, it doesn't mean his mother.

I'm very confused. Has it been suggested that PF's mother was his girlfriend?

 

[gitana1]

WARNING : GRAPHIC

Not outrageous, but given the absence of fact and information, it is unnecessarily gruesome. We all know that a woman can be killed in many ways including strangulation, incapacitation through beating, multiple stab injuries, kicked until teeth are avulsed, shot, and so it goes. Until we know more, what's the point of mentioning some of the gruesome ways that someone can be murdered?

I'm sorry. I disagree with you. I don't think the OP was particularly gruesome. They were simply speculating about how Kelsey was murdered. There wasn't even graphic detail. You used graphic detail "teeth avulsed". They did not except speculating about what he did to get her body out of the house.

You bolded several words as being "gruesome" and having "no basis in reality. Including "kill", "hate", "anger" "good sized man", "blood".

Yeah. Sounds like murder to me.

You also bolded the word "pieces" but I think misconstrued what the poster meant, which didn't have to do with her body.

Sometimes I do think people go overboard wondering in graphic detail about what happened to victims and coming up with ever-increasingly more horrific experiences not based on any reasonable assumptions. (For example, in these scenarios children are typically always raped and/or buried alive, etc).

But I'm not seeing that here. The poster is wondering how he killed her which is a normal thing to wonder but they're not coming up with baseless, "gruesome" suggestions, that aren't based in reality, IMO. He was a big guy. He did kill her in one of the typical ways these people kill. He got her body out of the house.

I think you'd have a point if people were gleefully talking about graphic details of what someone goes through while dying or coming up with improbable manners of death not seen in these cases, like being fed to a wood chipper.

This was a horrible crime and it's natural to wonder what he did and discuss that to some degree on a crime sleuthing website, I think.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Day Before He Was Arrested in Case of Missing Fiancée, What Colorado Dad Told a Client

To the contrary, Patrick Frazee thought that as the investigation ramped up and calls flooded his cell phone, client Clinton Cline might have trouble getting through — and so Frazee reached out first, sharing a new cell number with Cline, who worked alongside Frazee to care for a protected herd of wild donkeys in the small town of Cripple Creek.

Given the circumstances — Kelsey Berreth, Frazee’s 29-year-old fiancée and mother to their 1-year-old daughter, who by then had been missing for 28 days — “I think that’s the last thing I would have been doing at that time, calling my customers and giving a new cell,” Cline says.
But while conceding it “sounds strange,” Cline believes Frazee’s actions suggest he had nothing to hide.

Cline tells PEOPLE that some media accounts have misrepresented the relationship between Frazee and Berreth, at least as Cline understood it.

He also contends that Berreth had disappeared on other occasions and returned. Police have not confirmed any such incidents from Berreth’s past.

Why didn't Clinton Cline think it was scary that Patrick didn't beg him and others to help search for Kelsey and put up her missing person fliers? Imo, Mr. Cline's irrational thinking showed his agenda was to help Patrick.