CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[Gardener1850]

ABC News was one of the few outlets to get the info right-- calling this an emergency custody hearing set after PF was arrested: Video: Parents of missing woman win custody of her daughter

 

[jillianelaine]

No doubt! One news station in Colorado reported it and the rest followed suit, and Shep quoted the Denver Fox. Here on WS it seems many are leaning towards it was an emergency scheduled after she disappeared.

A member here said it was on lexisnexis but I have not heard more.

I noticed that the docket thingy poo stated "temporary custody hearing". Did anyone not a previous incident which stated just "custody hearing", not Temporary?

 

[susiQ]

Technically we don’t know anything about the solicitation charge or who he was trying to have killed. Obviously Kelsey was murdered, but he could’ve solicited to have someone else killed after the fact and failed. Unlikely, but a possibility. I think that’s the point the OP was making.

Agree, unlikely, but a possibility. What we know is that he was charged with murder in the first degree which tells us he planned it, premeditated. The charge of solicitation would be the obvious reason for a first degree murder charge. But, all theories are "on the table."

 

[WildWest]

Thanks WW, it's hard to believe they could still be getting it so wrong, but as we've learned it is def possible.

I wonder if @riolove77 or @Bill Carson or other attorneys here have lexisnexis and can take a peek?

 

[jillianelaine]

From a defense perspective, what he is doing is really smart IMO. If he says nothing, there is no chance to catch him in any lie. No chance to use any of his words against him. It’s unusual that someone is able to do it all the way through, but so far, I guess he is managing.

His decision to remain mute may have come about as a result of watching the events unfold in the Watts murder, as opposed to advice from his relatives. To date, I've seen nothing to suggest any sort of tight bond between he and his siblings. Sometimes I think they didn't even like him.

 

[girlhasnoname]

ABC News was one of the few outlets to get the info right-- calling this an emergency custody hearing set after PF was arrested: Video: Parents of missing woman win custody of her daughter

Tyvm G. I was sure until I saw another video today. What a mess they've made with this.

I do like this particular reporter and think they're the most accurate so far.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

BBM
That's an awful lot of gruesome words and thoughts that have no basis in reality.

We have to wait for more information to learn the cause of death. Imagining gruesome ways that a man might murder a woman in her own home seems a bit like viewing the murder as a spectator sport.

Police have indicated that she is deceased, and that her murder likely happened in her own home. That's it. We don't know any more and will not know until police reveal that information. We already know the possibilities.

Hi Otto,

First I'm a newbie here and obviously my posts are pale in comparison to yours. But being there is so much experience on this board I find it a good place for cutting my teeth on some of these cases. Granted we don't know many of the details but I think as we do find out more and more details, such as how she was murdered, those can play an important role as to what actually happened and the motive for it. Being he is charged with solicitation as well as murder this tells me there was some planning on his part and not just an act of something sudden that went out of control. My thinking was if he had planned it (remember the solicitation charge) I would like to believe it was more of a clean killing say choking and disposing of her body which would seem a lot cleaner. The solicitation charge somehow tells me there was no sudden action anger, such as an argument in the heat of the moment that took her life. But I certainly appreciate your feedback as I'm here to hear all theories and thoughts from all. That is the way we learn.

 

[Gardener1850]

Tyvm G. I was sure of this until I saw another video today. What a mess they've made with this.

I do like this particular reporter and think they're the most accurate so far.

I believe our verified attorneys on WS and ABC News have it right. It doesn't make any sense for KB to have set that hearing up before she was murdered and no one to have found it on the docket before PF was arrested. Our members checked the records long before that. I have noticed that some of the CO reporters following this case seem to be young/new journalists or not very experienced covering this type of case... But there's no excuse for Fox News Channel getting the info wrong too. It's like most of the bigger outlets are not bothering to fact-check the local reporters. It's very frustrating. I've never seen so many screw ups on getting info right. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Sorry I wasn’t clear. What I meant is after he killed Kelsey, if he solicited the murder of a different person— perhaps a witness — that would also explain a solicitation of murder charge.

Again, I don’t think that’s the case but the fact DA’s concerned about witness safety sparked the thought.

bbm
Maybe the murder of someone, who would also challenge him for custody of his child, ie. CB?

 

[Ccging]

Do we know the first date that either LE or KB’s family went inside her residence? December 2?

I’ve wondered IF PF painted over a wall after the fact, paint smell always tends to linger in a room for at least a few days. I’ve been curious if it smelled like paint inside of KB’s house to anyone? I know nobody has mentioned it, but something I’ve been curious about.

 

[LVatty10]

I wonder if @riolove77 or @Bill Carson or other attorneys here have lexisnexis and can take a peek?

I have lexisnexis and westlaw access. Will try to look later this afternoon!

 

[jillianelaine]

In terms of domestic issues, I don't see a justification for murder. If he was looking to make a new start with someone else, I think he'd have just walked. I don't think he'd worry about what her family thought, and I don't think he'd be concerned about his own family's reaction. Nor do I believe he had the spine to concern himself with what Kelsey thought. So why? What did he have to gain? He was on a birth certificate and had lived his life with "part time custody" to date, so why now? He saw what had happened to his peer, CW. There had to be something more to this tale.

 

[Mom24]

In terms of domestic issues, I don't see a justification for murder. If he was looking to make a new start with someone else, I think he'd have just walked. I don't think he'd worry about what her family thought, and I don't think he'd be concerned about his own family's reaction. Nor do I believe he had the spine to concern himself with what Kelsey thought. So why? What did he have to gain? He was on a birth certificate and had lived his life with "part time custody" to date, so why now? He saw what had happened to his peer, CW. There had to be something more to this tale.

CB did say there was a lot more to the story

 

[Mom24]

Do we know the first date that either LE or KB’s family went inside her residence? December 2?

I’ve wondered IF PF painted over a wall after the fact, paint smell always tends to linger in a room for at least a few days. I’ve been curious if it smelled like paint inside of KB’s house to anyone? I know nobody has mentioned it, but something I’ve been curious about.

They have paints now that don't have any odor. Natura Paint

It's not much more expensive than regular paint and literally has no odor.

 

[Mom24]

I believe our verified attorneys on WS and ABC News have it right. It doesn't make any sense for KB to have set that hearing up before she was murdered and no one to have found it on the docket before PF was arrested. Our members checked the records long before that. I have noticed that some of the CO reporters following this case seem to be young/new journalists or not very experienced covering this type of case... But there's no excuse for Fox News Channel getting the info wrong too. It's like most of the bigger outlets are not bothering to fact-check the local reporters. It's very frustrating. I've never seen so many screw ups on getting info right. JMO.

I don't believe the custody hearing was set up before she was murdered. I do remember going to the county website to check for any outstanding legal issues for both of them and found none. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who checked those sites out early on.

 

[Ccging]

They have paints now that don't have any odor. Natura Paint

It's not much more expensive than regular paint and literally has no odor.

Good to know, I honestly had no idea about that paint! We always wind up cracking open windows when we paint because I hate the smell.

 

[Mercedes]

His decision to remain mute may have come about as a result of watching the events unfold in the Watts murder, as opposed to advice from his relatives. To date, I've seen nothing to suggest any sort of tight bond between he and his siblings. Sometimes I think they didn't even like him.

I can see why.

 

[BingoBongo]

His decision to remain mute may have come about as a result of watching the events unfold in the Watts murder, as opposed to advice from his relatives. To date, I've seen nothing to suggest any sort of tight bond between he and his siblings. Sometimes I think they didn't even like him.

Am very curious about that. Wondering what the family dynamics are/were, and, have we heard anything from classmates, etc? (Other than this Cline guy.)

 

[jillianelaine]

Hi Otto,

First I'm a newbie here and obvious my posts are pale in comparison to yours. But being there is so much experience on this board I find it a good place for cutting my teeth on some of these cases. Granted we don't know many of the details but I think as we do find out more and more details, such as how she was murdered, those can play an important role as to what actually happened and the motive for it. Being he is charged with solicitation as well as murder this tells me there was some planning on his part and not just an act of something sudden that went out of control. My thinking was if he had planned it (remember the solicitation charge) I would like to believe it was more of a clean killing say choking and disposing of her body

 

[Mom24]

One thing I'm really confused about. In the article this week that interviewed Frazee's client CC, CC said that Frazee called him the day before his arrest and stated that Frazee gave him a new number because of all the media phone calls. My question is, when LE confiscate a phone, and they are searching the call history and such, isn't that number held until the investigation concludes?