CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #19 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

Also, he is wearing crocs and a getup that’s reminiscent of Steve from Blue’s Clues.

Personally, I'd be in favor of letting PF have shoelaces, along w/ a belt and tie, if I thought for one second that he'd put them to good use and spare the citizens of Colorado the cost of a trial. Unfortunately, he's not the type.

IMO, the only person on the planet he loves is himself.

 

[SandyQLS]

Really? I had the opposite impression from watching the 30 minute courtroom tape... IMO (especially at the very beginning, as he was looking towards the camera) he looked extremely ashamed/nervous/worried/trapped/etc.... his forehead was all wrinkled and knotted up as well..... the other point at which I noticed his demeanor look extremely worried was when the prosecutors were talking to the judge about the consumptive DNA tests they wanted to do ‘right away’.....

My impression is different. I thought PF looked calm and a bit bewildered by the legal jargon. When the judge started speaking, his expression changed and he turned to look at her and listen more intently. I don't think he looks ashamed but more like resigned to the circumstances and stoic.

 

[Trudie]

The lawyer isn't on trial. In other words, it's unlikely he'd be called to the witness stand and I'd be completely shocked if Patrick ever gets put on the stand.

Lawyers are officers of the court, and cannot suborn perjury; therefore, if a client tells his/her attorney "I am guilty of the charges against me," a lawyer cannot ethically argue that the client is innocent, or allow the client to tell a false story, such that he/she was 10 miles away when the crimes took place. Therefore, an admission of guilt to an attorney may limit what an attorney can ethically do at trial as part of a defense. However, such an admission would have no impact on the defendant's ability to plead not guilty.

https://www.quora.com/Law-What-happ...ed-a-murder-but-they-want-to-plead-not-guilty

 

[Gardenista]

Actually they ask all the questions they can because you never want to be in a position of not knowing the answer to a question.

Absolutely not. An attorney is not allowed to lie to defend someone. If they do, they can lose their bar card.

 

[Seattle1]

@Seattle1
I'm glad they weren't there. Don't they have another custody hearing Jan 3rd or so? Looks like Momma F is going for custody also.

Yes, the custody case will continue on Jan. 3 with a pre-trial conference.

Kelsey Berreth’s parents granted temporary custody of child in custody hearing

 

[NoeticSoul]

Given that those solicitations began on September 2, we can assume that something happened this fall that precipitated his desire to kill her, not be rid of her or to end the relationship, but to kill her.

Perhaps the relationship was going bad already in September and she was threatening to move back towards her family. moo

 

[Trudie]

Absolutely not. An attorney is not allowed to lie to defend someone. If they do, they can lose their bar card.

I’m trying to explain this fact!

 

[LietKynes]

Berreth's family was not in the courtroom on Monday, but Frazee's mother was seated in the front row as she is now fighting for custody of her son's daughter. [BBM]

Snipped for Brevity

Wow.
And what if Frazee's mother knew about her son's heinous plans ?
Or has she been cleared of any suspicion of involvement whatsoever ?

Imo, I've a difficult time believing SF knew nothing about this at all.

And how did she treat Kelsey when she (KB) was alive ?
Maybe there was a reason KB didn't want to live with PF and dear old mom ?
And is SF physically able to care for a baby who is nearly a toddler ?
(Speculating ... as PF lived with his mother with the sole purpose of caring for her physical needs.)

Asking this as I truly don't know and am catching up.

MOO that giving that baby to the Frazee family, even for shared custody, feels like salt in open wounds at this time.
I realize this is an assessment based on emotion, and we all have to obey the law as it's handed down.

 

[Steelslady]

Could Kelsey have been pregnant? 2 murders or motive?

I was wondering this myself. I've wondered all along. Time will tell.

 

[Mercedes]

It’s his credentials that are important. IMO

So is experience, IMO.

 

[1mtroyal]

It is interesting when the DA was asked if there might be more arrests, he deferred to the police chief's statement that there could. This might be a signal to the one, two, or three solicited that they better tell the truth.

 

[Stunned]

DNA, IMO. On something damp. There’s a one time test available & evidently, the object is small enough, it can’t be split & preserved for later. Let’s think on this......

This case has more twists and turns that the Natalie B Case! Is it the air?

 

[Trudie]

Snipped for Brevity

Wow.
And what if Frazee's mother knew about her son's heinous plans ?
Or has she been cleared of any suspicion of involvement whatsoever ?

Imo, I've a difficult time believing SF knew nothing about this at all.

And how did she treat Kelsey when she (KB) was alive ?
Maybe there was a reason KB didn't want to live with PF and dear old mom ?
And is SF physically able to care for a baby who is nearly a toddler ?
(Speculating ... as PF lived with his mother with the sole purpose of caring for her physical needs.)

Asking this as I truly don't know and am catching up.

MOO that giving that baby to the Frazee family, even for shared custody, feels like salt in open wounds at this time.
I realize this is an assessment based on emotion, and we all have to obey the law as it's handed down.

Omg, you honestly think Mrs. F would want K murdered?
I can’t even wrap my head around this.
I have a paralyzed friend, confined to a wheelchair or bed, she’s raising three kids. Just sayin’.
MOO
Break time

 

[Warwick7]

I am bouncing all around trying to catch up. Sooo I haven't read all the posts, but.....
Could itit be that LE wants to charge him with everything they can, meaning....
He (or they) went to KB's house and he demanded the baby, cell and purse. He would need the purse and cell to make it look like she left on her own. He may have still planned to kill her, but it could be she refused to give them up. They were taken from her by force. She was then killed. The (person or persons) with him could have driven the cell to Idaho, made the texts, then hid or destroyed the cell.
He needed people to think KB left, was depressed and was headed to see family.
He could have also hoped people would see she was probably kidnapped or killed "on her trip".
I'm starting to get that gut feeling there is another girlfriend involved.
MOO

 

[Mauig’ma]

Would Kelsey’s parents have a better chance at permanent custody since they’re married unlike Patrick’s single mom?

 

[Steelslady]

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Here are the charges formally filed. They were *not* read aloud in the courtroom. @KOAA #PatrickFrazee #KelseyBerreth

And just why aren't these people arrested and locked up? They knew he was going to have her murdered, either by them, with them, or someone else. Where are the arrests of these people? I'm sorry, but some of Kelsey's blood is on their hands, too, whether they partook in it or not! Sick people- they could have prevented her from being killed!!!!!

 

[Ccging]

Purely IMO, but what if SF is front and center at court because she also knows more about what happened and when she hears the name of the “snitch” she will be the one to have someone go after them? I dunno, she looks like a very cold, hard person. I just don’t get any warm fuzzies from her.

 

[missy1974]

I don't know. I'm hoping to listen to the news conference again. The reporters are confusing things. Now this:

Lance Benzel on Twitter
Other theory is #Frazee could be accused of trying to kill three people. You don't need a completed murder to have solicitation charge, observer Dubois said. Won't know which theory is correct till docs are released. #KelseyBerreth @csgazette

Sorry, a little behind now, but this is making it sound like this "attempted robbery" thing is just a theory or example that some reporter came up with, not necessarily the State saying this is what they think happened. I know that we have very limited court documents available, as does the defense, so I'm just trying not to focus on this without some sort of verification.

 

[Steelslady]

When I saw Consumptive evidence I thought sweet roll.

There was an article I posted earlier in another thread that said there was a "possible clue in a baked good". Tooth? Fingernail? Chunk of hair pulled out? Blood?

 

[cluciano63]

The only time a charged person will tell his lawyer what happened is if he intends to plead guilty/confess. The lawyer can’t defend him if he knows he is guilty but pleading not guilty...at least not with lies. So lawyers don’t want to know “if you did it” jmo...