CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

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  • #181
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  • #182
Marking spot. I’m pages behind on reading. Getting ready to get my NYE on.
Happy New Year sleuthers!
 
  • #183
Idk. Maybe because baby K is a girl? P has no sister, correct?
I’d like to know what a horse owner in the area pays for farrier work & wait time, etc. as I mentioned last night, for me, it’s like a hair salon appointment. Pay & rebook for 6 weeks out. I just don’t buy into the “broke theory”.

I’ve been lurking on here after the Watts case and now this one... I live about an hour away from where PF/ KB were, but think prices are about the same. I pay $60 for a barefoot trim on each of my horses. That takes a farrier about 20 min and I haven’t seen prices cheaper than $50. For shoes, it would be $80-$120 per horse depending on the farrier, shoes, and if they were only going on fronts or all fours.

Like you - I auto book, but on an 8 week schedule.

Who knows how booked up PF was though or how much of his livelihood actually came from farrier work... I tried searching his posts on local horse / livestock FB groups, and only found a couple where he was selling horses a couple years ago, and looking for dairy calves last year. No advertising of farrier services. Maybe just the groups I was looking in, though.
 
  • #184
Until further info comes out about the relationship PF had with his mom its hard to say if he did or didn't love her.

Some have brought up "enmeshment" issues, similar to Chris Watts and his mother. It looks like that to me.
Perhaps Ma F didn't particularly like PF's girlfriends but she wanted a grandchild?

There are cases where mother's have known all too well what their sons are capable of and given them a tacit nod or turned a blind eye.

We don't know if PF's mother supported the decision to kill KB because Ma F didn't like her and wanted full custody of baby K, or if Ma F is truly an innocent family member whose son committed an evil crime.

moo

Boy, I sure would have loved being a fly on the wall at the Frazee household the day it was announced Kelsey was missing. I have had the feeling all along that there were no warm and fuzzy feelings between KB and SF.<modsnipped against tos>
His motive: my opinion only -- KB may have told PF that she wanted to end the relationship and move near her family. PF wanted the baby to stay local. PF did not want to pay child support. Since he'd possibly made several solicitations for murder, it would appear to me that this had been a sore subject between them for a little while. I think he picked up the baby during the same hour he killed KB. I really don't think she had any kind of "inside information" on any kind of illegal dealings he had going on or anything like that.

My thoughts on why CB spoke of KB and PF's relationship as being solid: I believe it has to do with the investigation and perhaps LE asked her to keep a stiff upper lip so that PF would't be tipped off that they suspected him all along. That he may let his guard down and make some mistakes along the way.

As for them not naming any others in the case, I think that the person or persons PF solicited are being left unnamed until this goes to trial to prevent them from being harassed and/or questions by friends, family, reporters, etc. They've got to keep to the specifics or risk tainting the case. It's still quite possible that that person or persons could face some sort of charges, but that will likely be resolved separately.
 
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  • #185
The recent arrests in the murders of the entire family of 8 in OH is a prime example.
I haven't been following that case except very generally - were there arguments about custody before the violence and murders?

In this case, there just seems to be cold silence.

jmo
 
  • #186
I’ve been lurking on here after the Watts case and now this one... I live about an hour away from where PF/ KB were, but think prices are about the same. I pay $60 for a barefoot trim on each of my horses. That takes a farrier about 20 min and I haven’t seen prices cheaper than $50. For shoes, it would be $80-$120 per horse depending on the farrier, shoes, and if they were only going on fronts or all fours.

Like you - I auto book, but on an 8 week schedule.

Who knows how booked up PF was though or how much of his livelihood actually came from farrier work... I tried searching his posts on local horse / livestock FB groups, and only found a couple where he was selling horses a couple years ago, and looking for dairy calves last year. No advertising of farrier services. Maybe just the groups I was looking in, though.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was still collecting an allowance from his mommy.

I definitely don’t get the impression he was rolling in money, whatever his main source of income was.
 
  • #187
Nevermind :confused:
 
  • #188
I worry the rush of the consumptive evidence will "muck" up the Prosecution. Let's hope not. Sounds like they have one shot at this piece of evidence.

*corrected to say Prosecution.. Not Defense
Yes. I have seen examples of this on Forensic Files. One & done. Forever. :(
 
  • #189
Boy, I sure would have loved being a fly on the wall at the Frazee household the day it was announced Kelsey was missing. I have had the feeling all along that there were no warm and fuzzy feelings between KB and SF. I also think that PF was definitely a mama's boy and she most likely had at least an inkling that PF had something to do with the disappearance. That said -- she probably asked him outright. He may or may not have told her the details, but my feeling is that she knew. If mother and son are that close it would be unlikely that she couldn't read the body language.

His motive: my opinion only -- KB may have told PF that she wanted to end the relationship and move near her family. PF wanted the baby to stay local. PF did not want to pay child support. Since he'd possibly made several solicitations for murder, it would appear to me that this had been a sore subject between them for a little while. I think he picked up the baby during the same hour he killed KB. I really don't think she had any kind of "inside information" on any kind of illegal dealings he had going on or anything like that.

My thoughts on why CB spoke of KB and PF's relationship as being solid: I believe it has to do with the investigation and perhaps LE asked her to keep a stiff upper lip so that PF would't be tipped off that they suspected him all along. That he may let his guard down and make some mistakes along the way.

As for them not naming any others in the case, I think that the person or persons PF solicited are being left unnamed until this goes to trial to prevent them from being harassed and/or questions by friends, family, reporters, etc. They've got to keep to the specifics or risk tainting the case. It's still quite possible that that person or persons could face some sort of charges, but that will likely be resolved separately.

Yup, its likely LE know a lot more about who was involved, why, where etc, but they cannot make it public at this time.

As long as justice is well-served, I think its prudent for LE to keep their cards close until trial.
 
  • #190
  • #191
I couldn't tell by the photos of PF today -- did he manage to get his hair combed or shave the back of his neck? lol
 
  • #192
I don't know if we'll ever know the truth about PF's motives, unless he comes clean at trial which I doubt.

It appears to me PF lives to control situations, this would include hurting and abusing animals that didn't comply with him.

It may also be a passive-aggressive way to not give KB's family and loved ones closure, letting them search for KB's remains. Its sadistic. He's already been charged with murder so why can't he do the decent thing and tell LE where her body or body parts are? Because he enjoys being in control, imho.

Unless LE starts CT-scanning the brains of these monsters it would be hard to find a definite cause.

I think these killers are defective, lack impulse control and it would be interesting for medical science to examine their brains for lesions etc.

moo

I so agree with your post.
There’s something going on in the brain of these guys. It’s as if they entertain the idea of murdering their SO & evidently can’t get the thought out of their head until they have carried out their plan. Most of us, if breaking the law in a minor way, STOP. Like speeding. I have a lead foot. If I see I’m doing 80/65, I think “omg, I gotta SLOW down.” I think of the consequences. I don’t think I’m going to instead drive 150 & not get caught.
These guys in the 30ish age range give up every thing to kill. Most hail from a well respected family, have beyond HS education, good careers, nice homes, etc.
IMO, I truly believe they just begin to HATE HATE HATE their SO. Over little things. And that hate grows daily. Until the men simply HATE so intensely, divorce or stepping away is not an option, in their mind. They feel they must KILL the person they HATE. They simply don’t consider the end result of their actions, it seems.
MOO
 
  • #193
Yup, its likely LE know a lot more about who was involved, why, where etc, but they cannot make it public at this time.

As long as justice is well-served, I think its prudent for LE to keep their cards close until trial.
I agree. I’m also encouraged by the fact that LE brought in the CBI and FBI early on.

Many local police departments would be out of their depth with a case like this, and they are prone to making mistakes.

State and Federal authorities are well equipped for a case of this magnitude, one that likely involves several people, and atleast two states.
 
  • #194
I said earlier too, he evidently cares none for his mom. If he did, how can he put her thru this? Her heart must be broken. IMO, no mom wants to believe her child capable of murder.
We might never know but I can’t help but think P & K’s relstionship was never “good”.

MOO
I saw when you wrote that and agreed then as well... something is just not right with him at all.
 
  • #195
There have been several ideas tossed around as to why we were never shown her exiting Safeway. First one... the only reason they released the video in the first place was to show her likeness & establish the last time she was for sure seen & what she was wearing. Second.. possibly did not release exit video may have been because it showed what she purchased & LE needed to keep that quiet. I had a third.... but it flew out of my brain as I was typing...:confused:

She could have been escorted OUT of Safeway by her murderer.
 
  • #196
Maybe for his Mother’s love of the child.

I see it this way.... he met KB online, had a few hookups (as he always did), she got pregnant, he asked her to move to CO and helped her move. But she didn’t realize he is a Mamas boy. His mom owns everything. He is a playboy who takes care of the cattle and horses and the ranch. He loves rodeo. Loves playing the field. But Mom pays all the bills. KB realized this and bought her own townhouse as she decided he would never leave his easy life with mom. She may have decided it was time to move on with her life. PF couldn’t allow her to take the baby away from his mom. He didn’t care about pleasing KB or growing up and being a man. He only had to look good for moms sake.
Custody. That’s how I see it now.
Talk about "Failure to Launch."
 
  • #197
From what I have read, a person cannot be charged based merely/solely on the words of one other person...there would have to be some supporting evidence. Jmo

I would hope. It’d be awful to think a person could march into the PD and say the murderer de jour had solicited them.
Even proof of calls proves nothing, there’s no proof of the convo. Unless a VM is left.
Texts would be ideal. Even after the fact (in this case). If I asked someone to haul a body out of state, I might be inclined to check in. Lol. Not by text, tho. But......
If someone used a horse trailer, there could be DNA & hopefully the person can lead LE to her remains. It’s just sooooo rugged & remote. Plus winter is settling in.

MOO
 
  • #198
Yes. Idk tho, did he give any thought to the kid? Did he think what he would do if his mom passed away?
It may very well be for custody. I personally feel it’s much deeper. MOO
I'm sure he may have had some anger or resentment towards Kelsey. Maybe even jealousy. It can be very difficult for any parent to have to "share" custody of a child. But for someone who is controlling it is even harder. Maybe he wanted to raise the child in a different way then she did. Without her in the picture he could have been free to take his daughter to all the rodeos he wanted, hit on as many women as he felt like, leave her in his mothers care, or that of a colleagues wife, whenever he wished without having to answer to the other parent. I have no idea what was on his mind, but maybe having her gone meant freedom to him. Imo
 
  • #199
I agree. I’m also encouraged by the fact that LE brought in the CBI and FBI early on.

Many local police departments would be out of their depth with a case like this, and they are prone to making mistakes.

State and Federal authorities are well equipped for a case of this magnitude, one that likely involves several people, and atleast two states.

This brings up a question I have wondered.. What brings on FBI in a case? I understand that the FBI is brought on based on the limitations of State capabilities/ expertise. But wondered when and why the FBI was called in?
 
  • #200
This brings up a question I have wondered.. What brings on FBI in a case? I understand that the FBI is brought on based on the limitations of State capabilities/ expertise. But wondered when and why the FBI was called in?
The FBI can be brought in to assist whenever local law enforcement feels the need.

They have a great amount of resources and expertise, especially in missing persons and murder cases.

They aren’t taking the lead, they are merely helping.

ETA: They were brought in early on, I’m not sure of the date.

It’s certainly beneficial, as this crime appears to involve not only Colorado, but Idaho as well.
 
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