CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[riolove77]

I think they broke up a year ago today just as much as I think CW and SW were "finalizing their divorce". This guy just wants to distance himself from her and justify not reporting her missing or helping to look for her. Of COURSE he told his friends and coworkers that. We already know he'd been planning this for some time so that went into it.

ETA JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

so if the baby was with mum at that time, why would robbers just take a few items, kill mum and then leave the baby? there has been no mention that the baby was found there.

if the baby was with dad then it would be the strangest robbery to kill someone and then just take those few items and nothing else and if it was by accident. either way why take the body and at this point hide it so well.

We don't know how many were involved, or what role they played. Maybe he had someone waiting in the car or outside with the baby.
It may not have been staged to look like a robbery. They weren't there to take the purse and phone to begin with. He likely just removed those to make it look like she had gone somewhere. Imo

 

[enelram]

How does LE know there was a robbery involved if PF is not
talking? Wasn't it said earlier by one of our verified attys. that
it had to be robbery BY FORCE to the victim BEFORE she was
killed?
Seems to me an accomplice was there and told LE about the robbery. this accomplice may be one of snitches, IMO.

So what was she robbed of? Money? Jewelry? ATM card?

Anyone else think PF could be caught up in drugs and needed
money or a fix?

 

[Mom24]

I think they broke up a year ago today just as much as I think CW and SW were "finalizing their divorce". This guy just wants to distance himself from her and justify not reporting her missing or helping to look for her. Of COURSE he told his friends and coworkers that. We already know he'd been planning this for some time so that went into it.

ETA JMO

What's interesting is, he didn't tell T that they had broken up a year ago until two days before he was arrested. If they had broken up that long ago, and the children played together, don't you think that would have come up in conversation over the past year? In other words, T wasn't aware they had broken up a year ago until two days before his arrest. A friend of his had no idea they had supposedly broken up.

 

[Mom24]

How does LE know there was a robbery involved if PF is not
talking? Wasn't it said earlier by one of our verified attys. that
it had to be robbery BY FORCE to the victim BEFORE she was
killed?
Seems to me an accomplice was there and told LE about the robbery. this accomplice may be one of snitches, IMO.

So what was she robbed of? Money? Jewelry? ATM card?

Anyone else think PF could be caught up in drugs and needed
money or a fix?

BBM, that does make sense. If something was missing there would be no way to tell if it happened recently or months ago. But to know that something was stolen at the time of her murder, means someone must have seen something and reported it. Either a witness or maybe someone who happened to be there and saw it through the window.

 

[InvSmith]

If the reason to protect the identity of the witness/solicitee(s) is to protect them from someone else taking things into their own hands, why would the DA ask that PFs attorney not be alllowed to discuss it with him?

To me this is all buying time for investigating, obviously PF knows what he has done and who he was involved. He does not know everything the State or Feds have discovered but for the most part he knows his charges. All of this is working out warrants, discovery, and investigation. For some reason, people seem to be pushing protecting these other informants/criminals/witnesses as though some lawless state exist. I am not seeing that as a reality. It will be interesting to see the facts though.

 

[MsBetsy]

Catching up. The judge was addressing the defense motion to preserve ALL of the LE investigation correspondence saying that it was an overly broad request involving potentially thousands of texts and emails. She suggested they file another motion with a more limited scope. iirc

Thank you for that! That's a lot of texts and emails!

 

[MassGuy]

To me this is all buying time for investigating, obviously PF knows what he has done and who he was involved. He does not know everything the State or Feds have discovered but for the most part he knows his charges. All of this is working out warrants, discovery, and investigation. For some reason, people seem to be pushing protecting these other informants/criminals/witnesses as though some lawless state exist. I am not seeing that as a reality. It will be interesting to see the facts though.

What matters is that a judge is siding with the prosecution on this.

It’s an unusual move to seal the arrest warrant in order to protect both the investigation, and witnesses.

There has to be a compelling reason to do so, as the prosecution needs legal grounds for this.

Apparently these grounds exist here.

 

[jaspermac]

How does LE know there was a robbery involved if PF is not
talking? Wasn't it said earlier by one of our verified attys. that
it had to be robbery BY FORCE to the victim BEFORE she was
killed?
Seems to me an accomplice was there and told LE about the robbery. this accomplice may be one of snitches, IMO.

So what was she robbed of? Money? Jewelry? ATM card?

Anyone else think PF could be caught up in drugs and needed
money or a fix?

go to crime on line website- Nancy grace Dec 26 webcast on KB. listen after 27 min. Former police linked to current LE reporting romantic involvement on the part of PF and they are questioning her.
Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

 

[katydid23]

Don't believe PF said they broke up. It was her cousin.

I wonder who the source of that info was?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Talk of “making it look like a robbery” is really the exact opposite of what we know, isn’t it? One of the charges is based on murder during the course of a robbery, not “making it look like” a robbery. The theory, right or wrong, is that there was a robbery. And if there really was a robbery, we know that it wasn’t immediately apparent.

 

[InvSmith]

I just finished listening to the presser and the DA said several times these were theories of how she was murdered. He also said the solicitation to murder was not a theory. I think this means they have solid evidence he attempted to hire 3 different people to murder her but at this point they don't know how she was murdered. They have charged him with 2 separate counts because they don't know but think one of them will stick.

Usually, the robbery is used for demonstrating a commission of a felonious crime for consideration of death penalty consideration (leverage) and the three solicitations I believe were the same individual(s). I do not think this will be a death penalty case but it may be threatened.

 

[SandyQLS]

I guess the reason this theory I mentioned above ^ is most unlikely, is that it would be adding too much unnecessary risk. I suppose it would only be possible if PF really needed the money (even just $400), and if KB and PF’s relationship was at a point where he couldn’t have just asked for the money. Plus, any unexplained withdrawals by PF himself, could raise suspicion if someone he solicited ever “talked.”

I don’t know, but this robbery (as part of 1st degree murder charge) is just making me scratch my head a little. But maybe there is a fairly simple explanation for it... (phone, wallet)

I tend to overthink things when I’m missing a lot of details.

In the Jodi Arias murder of Travis Alexander, the charges were 1st degree premeditated murder and felony murder/burglary. The prosecution theory on the felony murder/burglary was that although TA invited JA into his home, and they were together 8 hours and had sex, that at some point TA told JA to leave the premises. JA's continued presence in his home resulting in his death was therefore felony murder/burglary.

Someone remind me if one of JA's multiple conflicting statements was rough sex gone wrong? This may be why prosecutors added the felony murder/burglary charge to overcome her self-defense case, rather than as a truly alternate prosecution theory of the crime.

The jury returned 12 Guilty on 1st degree murder, but split 7-5 on felony murder/burglary. I think this outcome may have surprised the prosecutors who may have been concerned about holdout jurors on the 1st degree murder charge perhaps questioning the premeditation aspect, but thought they would agree on felony murder/burglary. The danger for the prosecution is that jurors are not lawyers and with the two different types of murder, the individual jurors can see the evidence differently, and split in many ways resulting in mistrial.

I don't want to distract here, but the JA/TA case had the similar 2 types of murder charges as this case and there is a lot of information and opinion available about this legal strategy.

JMO and IDK, the charges here look like LE has witness affidavits that PF solicited for both a 1st degree murder and also for a robbery gone bad felony murder/robbery. LE is not sure which event occurred or if it was another event such as PF acting alone. JMO the known solicitees declined.

 

[Mom24]

To me this is all buying time for investigating, obviously PF knows what he has done and who he was involved. He does not know everything the State or Feds have discovered but for the most part he knows his charges. All of this is working out warrants, discovery, and investigation. For some reason, people seem to be pushing protecting these other informants/criminals/witnesses as though some lawless state exist. I am not seeing that as a reality. It will be interesting to see the facts though.

Actually we assume he knows who the witness is, there's a chance there was a bystander who saw things that Frazee isn't aware exists. Given that there has been one murder, and we have no idea who he solicited, it might not be safe for the witness if their name was made known to Frazee.

 

[jaspermac]

Talk of “making it look like a robbery” is really the exact opposite of what we know, isn’t it? One of the charges is based on murder during the course of a robbery, not “making it look like” a robbery. The theory, right or wrong, is that there was a robbery. And if there really was a robbery, we know that it wasn’t immediately apparent.

But what about planning to make a murder look like a robbery and it is in fact a robbery because you take something- cellphone, money, atm card, credit card. Maybe someone used her credit card out in Idaho to make it look like she was there. No info was ever given by police about any banking info, credit cards etc. Maybe there is something there and they are holding it tight to their chest- or maybe none of that was touched.

 

[enelram]

Well said, MassGuy.
Possibly during the course of the investigation, LE found some
pretty "seedy" characters involved. Hitmen would not be on
my list of 'Good Citizens".

 

[InvSmith]

BBM agree. If that's the case then he was the one at the house and most likely committed the murder. He wouldn't take her cell phone for any other reason would he? IMO

Technically, her purse with I presume credit cards were taken. I believe the robbery shows another felony for potential death penalty consideration (I do not think will have but helps.) Death during a commission of a felony...

 

[SharonNeedles]

But what about planning to make a murder look like a robbery and it is in fact a robbery because you take something- cellphone, money, atm card, credit card. Maybe someone used her credit card out in Idaho to make it look like she was there. No info was ever given by police about any banking info, credit cards etc. Maybe there is something there and they are holding it tight to their chest- or maybe none of that was touched.

But the crime scene didn’t look like a robbery initially?

 

[katydid23]

Talk of “making it look like a robbery” is really the exact opposite of what we know, isn’t it? One of the charges is based on murder during the course of a robbery, not “making it look like” a robbery. The theory, right or wrong, is that there was a robbery. And if there really was a robbery, we know that it wasn’t immediately apparent.

It was immediately apparent that her purse and phone were missing.

 

[InvSmith]

Why would witnesses feel so threatened if PF is behind bars? Because he can order another hit? Because people he know will intimidate and retaliate? Because he might not be in jail long and will go after them himself?





I'm not really seeing why a witness in this particular case would need to go into a protection program. I can totally understand a witness going into voluntary seclusion to avoid the press and gossip...but to go into an official police protection program? Is PF that powerful? IDK about that.

JMOpinion

Exactly!