CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[enelram]

I thought they must have known each other for awhile for him to trust her. Does it say where they worked? I thought maybe they met at a rodeo. Imo

Yes you've been saying that all along, MsBetsy. So tell us more
of your hunches.
No clue yet where they worked. I think ABC is doing the
"Drip, drip, drip" giving out information.
My hunch:
I wonder if LE is leaking this info on purpose because she and
her attorney are not divulging all they know and LE is putting
pressure on her by leaking information.
Maybe LE will not guarantee immunity from prosecution and
nurse says then I won't talk anymore.
I don't believe LE knows where the phone is, just that she
did something with it. Disposed of it or destroyed it.

 

[PommyMommy]

Charges, motions provide preview of evidence against Patrick Frazee
Stephen Longo, an attorney with McDivitt Law Firm, helped explain the charges.

“It suggests to me that he probably asked the same person three times to either help or commit the crime individually,” Longo said. “It’s always possible, based on the three counts, that he asked three separate people.”

The solicitation charges also suggest Frazee tried planning the crime for months, between and including Sept. 1 and Nov. 1 of this year.

Longo said the timeline inclusion could help explain what evidence investigators have uncovered.

“It’s documented somehow, right? Whether it’s email, text message, recorded phone call, something where we have specifics where we can trace the date,” Longo said.

A person could also have supplied that information, he said.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Question for the attorneys: when a felony murder charge is made, is it usually accompanied by a separate charge for the qualifying felony? (either attempted or completed)

Because there seems to be a charge of murder-in-the-course-of-robbery here, but no separate charge for the robbery itself, nor even for attempted robbery.

Is it folded into the felony murder charge somehow?

If not, can you think of a reasonable reason why there isn't a robbery charge? TIA

Edit: I'm half suspecting the felony murder charge is a ploy to fool PF into thinking he has a way to plead that her death was accidental, even if there was no robbery. But I know criminal charges aren't used to trick someone in that way, and even if it was, why no charge for the robbery/attempted robbery?

 

[GordianKnot]

Yes, if he accidentally killed her in an attempted robbery, that would still be felony murder. But we don't have any reason to believe that is what the defense is claiming.

PW, agreed and glad you're here on this forum along w/ @gitana1 and Mercedes to provide legal expertise! I'm not an attorney, but as a lay person, IMUO, PF's attorney will wait to see what the DA has in hand, i.e., discovery, and then craft a defense that best explains away the prosecution's evidence once they know what & who the DA has to present to a jury.

I don't envy PF's lawyer.
Mounting a credible defense will be nothing short of a Herculean task...JMO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I initially thought that the "robbery" was the purse and phone. But, like you, I don't think that taking those items after she is dead would constitute robbery. So, either there is something else that we don't know about, or the DA has charged something that they will probably have to revise.

Prairie wind,
Couldn’t the commission of the robbery occur at the same time that she was killed? For instance, say it was PF and an accomplice and PF stole a lot of the baby items and took them to his home and somehow LE knew those items belonged in KB’s home?

 

[PommyMommy]

Video: HAPPENING NOW: Patrick Frazee arrives at the Teller County Courthouse for today’s custody hearing. @KOAA
Shayla Girardin on Twitter

 

[Inthedetails]

Charges, motions provide preview of evidence against Patrick Frazee
Stephen Longo, an attorney with McDivitt Law Firm, helped explain the charges.

“It suggests to me that he probably asked the same person three times to either help or commit the crime individually,” Longo said. “It’s always possible, based on the three counts, that he asked three separate people.”

The solicitation charges also suggest Frazee tried planning the crime for months, between and including Sept. 1 and Nov. 1 of this year.

Longo said the timeline inclusion could help explain what evidence investigators have uncovered.

“It’s documented somehow, right? Whether it’s email, text message, recorded phone call, something where we have specifics where we can trace the date,” Longo said.

A person could also have supplied that information, he said.

It's been reported that the charges are either he contacted 1 person 3 times or 3 people 1 time.

But...I'm thinking he contacted 2 people (1 person 1 time and another person 2 times). It could be a duo who helped him out, with "Idaho Nurse" being one of that duo, perhaps.

Of course, that is not fact, just another mathematical possibility to consider with the 3 charges of solicitation.

jmo, speculation

 

[Noharg]

2 new facts reported this am-
Yes, here is the link:
ABC NEWS TV- 7am today- Clayton Sandel reported:
1) Nurse in Idaho knew PF for years
2) Nurse and PF used to work together

Video: Idaho woman investigated in case of missing Colorado mom

 

[Trudie]

How to Make a Will Legally Binding Regarding Custody of Children
I wanted to bring this over. Yesterday, there seemed to be a few that believe K could not have made arrangements for her daughter, in the event she (K) died.
The “custody” issue may be nothing more than a formality.
Since K has not been legally declared dead, I think her mom might still be able to produce a doc’ stating her wishes. Furthermore, imo, K being a pilot & a single mom, would have arrangements in place. Jmo
Personally, I can’t imagine any parent/s not documenting their wishes, just in case. So, at least the kids and their estate are handled per wishes of deceased parent/s.

MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

I initially thought that the "robbery" was the purse and phone. But, like you, I don't think that taking those items after she is dead would constitute robbery. So, either there is something else that we don't know about, or the DA has charged something that they will probably have to revise.

Is it possible that the phone has been found and it had some forensic evidence on it such as KB's blood or bits of tissue-- indicating that he had to have taken the phone from her hands in the process of murdering her? Could something like that lead to the felony murder during a robbery charge? Or does this type of charge have to be based on a witness saying KB was being robbed (something taken from her while she was still alive) and ended up murdered in the process?

 

[BUF]

With everyone being kicked out of the courtroom this morning, I get the feeling that there is more to this that they do not want revealed at this time. Anyone else feel that way?

Sending good thoughts to the Berreth family and the little one that things move positively today and that this is not drawn out endlessly.

 

[jaspermac]

Video: Idaho woman investigated in case of missing Colorado mom

A bit more information this morning. Sources say they have known each other for years and they worked together in Colorado.

Thanks and at the end of the video it says they have made repeated attempts to contact her and her lawyer and they have not responded. So we were right in speculating that she had lawyered up.

 

[Trudie]

I’ll link this again, to refresh anyone not clear what robbery is.

Colorado "robbery" laws (explained by defense lawyers)

 

[PrairieWind]

Question for the attorneys: when a felony murder charge is made, is it usually accompanied by a separate charge for the qualifying felony? (either attempted or completed)

Because there seems to be a charge of murder-in-the-course-of-robbery here, but no separate charge for the robbery itself, nor even for attempted robbery.

Is it folded into the felony murder charge somehow?

If not, can you think of a reasonable reason why there isn't a robbery charge? TIA

Edit: I'm half suspecting the felony murder charge is a ploy to fool PF into thinking he has a way to plead that her death was accidental, even if there was no robbery. But I know criminal charges aren't used to trick someone in that way, and even if it was, why no charge for the robbery/attempted robbery?

Typically you would see that extra charge also brought separately, or at least an "attempted robbery" charged. Why not here? I don't know. We are trying to reverse engineer these charges without knowing anything and its virtually impossible. Keep in mind, I'm just speculating along with the rest of you. I do not think the charge would be brought as a ruse or a trick. That would be unethical and misconduct, and I don't think the DA would go there.

 

[Ccging]

Video: Idaho woman investigated in case of missing Colorado mom

Whoa! And they say he tried to find someone “3 separate times”.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I have thought the exact same. I know murderers don’t always make sense in their reasoning, but it just seems there should be more of a reason. Your idea of him taking out a loan in her name is interesting, but would she have just sat back for months with that information? She would have needed to find out pre-Sept 1 when he first solicited someone.

Several threads ago I had wondered about KB wanting to put baby K in formal child care vs with him and his mom being a reason. She may have even suggested SF wouldn’t be able to keep up with the baby much longer. It might have been enough to incite his rage also.

Well he darn near killed a horse because he didn't way get his way. He's just flat out mean,and nasty. Who knows maybe she looked at him sideways once. It doesn't take much to get his ire.
MOO.

 

[Inthedetails]

With everyone being kicked out of the courtroom this morning, I get the feeling that there is more to this that they do not want revealed at this time. Anyone else feel that way?

Sending good thoughts to the Berreth family and the little one that things move positively today and that this is not drawn out endlessly.

I don't get the feeling about the closed-door meeting. It's about the custody of a small child and not about the crime, and I think the judge is trying to keep the matters separate and not a circus. As much as I want info, I think the closed-door is a good thing. This is about little K and her well-being.

I also hope this all moves along quickly in favor of the B family.

jmo

 

[Trudie]

Not sure what you mean by "taking his daughter from Kelsey was done in a robbery way," but if it means he "stole" his daughter I'm sure that's not the case!
I hope he did not have his daughter there when the crime occurred. Maybe he had someone outside watching her or sitting in a vehicle with her.
I think the robbery charges stem from the fact that the phone and purse were taken.
The prosecution may have added the charge in anticipation of his defense. If he claims he tried to rob her and her death was an accident, he is still charged with Murder in the first degree. Imo

I can’t even figure out how he got the child, did he pick her up, did K drop her off or did they meet in public to “exchange”. I can pull up three MSM articles & get three dif’ answers.

HLN covering PF now.

 

[maureen718]

It's been reported that the charges are either he contacted 1 person 3 times or 3 people 1 time.

But...I'm thinking he contacted 2 people (1 person 1 time and another person 2 times). It could be a duo who helped him out, with "Idaho Nurse" being one of that duo, perhaps.

Of course, that is not fact, just another mathematical possibility to consider with the 3 charges of solicitation.

jmo, speculation

I think the nurse is one or all of the solicitation charges also. I’m hoping this part unfolds quickly!

 

[Esma]

I don't get the feeling about the closed-door meeting. It's about the custody of a small child and not about the crime, and I think the judge is trying to keep the matters separate and not a circus. As much as I want info, I think the closed-door is a good thing. This is about little K and her well-being.

I also hope this all moves along quickly in favor of the B family.

jmo

I’m thinking along those lines as well.