CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #24 *ARREST*

[Esma]

What I don't understand is IF KK is talking and working out a plea deal- why isn't she already arrested? How long can that take? They served warrants in Twin Falls Dec 15th. Something glitchy here.

 

[Trudie]

Not if it <blood, or tissue> was well hidden, ie scrubbed, painted over OR it was in such an obscure location they wouldn't have known/seen it without a 'tip' from a person involved?? MOO

ETA: Both samples

Exactly, that’s what I’m saying. We can assume from K’s bro, there was nothing out of place, no visible blood evidence, etc.
Did someone tell LE “I helped so & so wash the kitchen walls, or......”

 

[Noharg]

Can one take out life insurance on someone without their knowledge?

It’s illegal to take out life insurance on someone without their knowledge unless it is taken out by a legal guardian or someone who has power of attorney.

 

[girlhasnoname]

No, I definitely don’t think they care about financial gain- just wondered if it was a way to prevent PF from gathering the funds to hire private counsel.

I agree LA, that and protecting Baby K <btw I lol'd too over the MOOing>

 

[riolove77]

You guys, it's pretty much guaranteed from a legal standpoint that there is no way PF is benefiting financially from this at all.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

This is unknowable at this point.

It obviously depends on how much money he was making, and what his expenses were.

Just because he may not have had certain living expenses, doesn’t mean he was rolling in cash.

True, but depending on what kind of business man he was as well, would explain how much 'expendable' cash he would spend too..

 

[The Saint]

I don't want to get off-topic, but are you sure you're not thinking about B.I.G.? There's an abbreviated list of interesting civil cases here and I would expect to see MJ on there if Sanders was involved in that case: Perry R. Sanders Jr. | Founding Partner | Sanders Law Firm, CO

Sanders is Kaherine Jackson's personal l lawyer who helped her through probate . He was involved in the Biggie Smalls case.

Sanders was part of the team representing the Jackson family in the wrongful death lawsuit as he is Katherine's personal atty. Kevin Boyle was the lead attorney for the Jacksons against AEG.

New trial in Michael Jackson wrongful-death suit rejected - CNN

 

[Trudie]

In the media, two stories by PF were related 1) KB was to drop the child off and 2) he was to come by to pick her up. One third scenario would have been Thanksgiving together but that didn't not seem like a plan. For people outside of the US, Thanksgiving is a very big family dinner day. A lot of cooking, eating, family, football watching, and visiting. It is a very family-oriented day. LE has stated the PF does place himself as the last person to see KB. KB's townhome is approximately fifteen miles from PF's mother's property.

Yes, I understand.
Has LE ever stated where the child transfer took place? If anyone knows? I can’t find a conclusive answer. Do they even know?

 

[Lhughessk]

Still makes me think she endured a beating. “Fatal injuries”, in the plural. I rule out gunshot, that’s too messy.
Per the large items removed from her home, could be no dna, it might be only cleaning fluids found.
Think back to nurse Melanie McGuire (machete melanie).
Iirc, they cd find no dna for her missing husband, two kids or Mel, in the family home. NONE.

You’re thinking too hard on this one, I think. This initial lawsuit filing, at this extremely early date, must by necessity be very broad and general. They’re going to speak in plurals over singulars to cover the bases. I doubt these civil lawyers know the specifics of KB’s injuries when LE couldn’t even nail down one specific theory of the circumstances of her killing.

 

[susiQ]

Sometimes I have to remind myself of what we do know to keep my speculation at bay.

The IN, unless she decided to go on the spur of the moment to WP, had to know what was going to happen.

According to what we know PF was shopping around for someone to kill KB since September 2018.

The murder was Thanksgiving Day. According to LE.

If you know someone is coming to visit you on a certain day you don't pick that day to murder someone UNLESS the person is in on it. So for those who think KK just took the phone and didn’t participate further I don’t think the facts support that theory. IF it was a crime of passion maybe I could lean towards that theory. BUT looking for, solicitating, someone for 3 months sounds like he (they) preplanned it.

KK is up to her cowgirl boots in this situation . JMO

Possibly, but she's still free, PF is not. Goodness only knows what he told her. He could have been leading a "double" life to a degree. IN thinks KB is an ex only, nothing more. They share a child. PF tells her, she won't stop thinking we're going to get together again. IN comes down for TG with other relatives but plans to meet up with PF on Sat. He tells her he finally told KB it's not going to happen, he's not interested. Said she needed some time to think and she's going to see her granny with a friend. She left her cell phone behind and if LE find it, they may think I have something to do with it. He gets rid of the purse, because that would be a red flag for IN. He convinces her to take the phone and make a couple of fake texts.

Who knows? I just don't think she put all the pieces together until he was arrested. Heck, his own mother, who he lives with can't believe he's done this.

If the two of them conspired to murder KB for the baby K custody, they are as evil as the day is long. We shall see. If that's true, she really should be behind bars already. JMO

 

[Trudie]

Maybe she ran to Safeway and then came back and jumped in the shower.
It was when she was in the shower, that PF and/or the killer(s) ambushed her.

Crime scene investigators removed some big pieces from her house. One
appeared to be a big curved piece that could have come from her shower.

IMO

IMO, good theory.

 

[moonlessnight]

why wouldn't they file a civil case now? I am unaware of any reasons to wait. Seems like this will support their custody case, particularly if monetary damages are such that PF's family have to contribute financially, reducing their financial ability to support baby K. More power to the Berreth's.

I agree LA, that and protecting Baby K <btw I lol'd too over the MOOing>

 

[girlhasnoname]

Exactly, that’s what I’m saying. We can assume from K’s bro, there was nothing out of place, no visible blood evidence, etc.
Did someone tell LE “I helped so & so wash the kitchen walls, or......”

PF also had a 10 window to make it all look normal. I think when the family did their check, they didn't suspect anything. I asked if a real search with dogs, etc. was conducted during this time, but I'm not sure if anyone knows for sure.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

IMO, good theory.

Good point, never thought to look if she was in running gear..Although, I would always just use my stroller for my shopping cart when I was on foot with my little....

 

[Mom24]

There are maximum security prisons in Canon City Colorado. Don’t know, of course, but that would be a guess.

I think it's spelled H-E-double hockey sticks. At least that's my hope.

 

[girlhasnoname]

You guys, it's pretty much guaranteed from a legal standpoint that there is no way PF is benefiting financially from this at all.

Thanks for making that point Riolove

 

[Trudie]

You’re thinking too hard on this one, I think. This initial lawsuit filing, at this extremely early date, must by necessity be very broad and general. They’re going to speak in plurals over singulars to cover the bases. I doubt these civil lawyers know the specifics of KB’s injuries when LE couldn’t even nail down one specific theory of the circumstances of her killing.

Cool, we can have dif opinions. To me, she did not die from A FATAL INJURY (like a gunshot to the head) & they know this bc someone with intimate knowledge is talking. Jmo

 

[moonlessnight]

I think the fact that her mom pointed it out as odd indicated that maybe KB had already been assaulted and escaped to Safeway. If/how/why she went home willingly is unknown, and resulted in her death. Why she didn't ask for help while at Safeway if she was in danger is a mystery, and sad.

Maybe she ran to Safeway and then came back and jumped in the shower.
It was when she was in the shower, that PF and/or the killer(s) ambushed her.

Crime scene investigators removed some big pieces from her house. One
appeared to be a big curved piece that could have come from her shower.

IMO

 

[justtrish]

Some random things I keep thinking over:

1. if she was in a rush to get to the store and wasn't "put together" like usual, then what could have made her so rushed? What did she need to run out quick and grab on Thanksgiving morning? Was that part of this whole thing?

I tend to think no because why would he let her bring the baby with her if this was part of the plan.. seems he'd not put her in any risk WITH their child in tow. What could she "need".. maybe milk for the child or ?

2. the cinnamon rolls.. several thoughts there.

If she made them and left them and then was murdered and they took all the time to clean up very very well then why leave the cinnamon rolls... overlooked it? Doesn't seem like someone would go off to visit family and leave those on the counter? So it sorta sends up a red flag.. why not throw them out too while cleaning up after the murder?

or what if they baked them and for whatever reason wanted people to think she left them out? But, why?

3. just in general what types of things could they not find in the house on the first look that they later would find that would lead them to believe she was dead. Of course things like blood or signs of a struggle, but what else?

4. the baby.. I just can't see that he did this with his child there.. I guess I can't see doing this at all, but he does seem to at least care for her.. so if this was an ambush or something after KB left the store, then she had the baby with her. Was she in the house or did someone take her.. was she already gone.. did they do the handoff of the baby and then KB went to her house and was ambushed?

So many questions!

 

[Lhughessk]

Generally when we speak of a class to which a victim belongs, and that class being protected by said law, we are speaking in terms of negligence per se; this is legal speak for the negligence being presumed and not needing to be further proved. IIRC, the civil suit seems to have negligence per se as a claim the Berreths are making?

Yes it does. The verbiage about class Is under the section heading “Second Cause of Action - Negligence Per Se”