CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #28 *ARREST*

[Trudie]

Could also mean they needed assistance to access an attic.

I think so, if indeed she has an attic space. I’ll have to look at interior pics again. Do you recall if she had high ceilings? If so, even to reach high walls a ladder would be required. IMO
Another thing, just bc items were removed doesn’t mean they are evidentiary, right? Could they be removed for testing?

 

[Charlot123]

I think one possibility could be related to Baby K.

I don’t know if he may have had Baby K with him at the time because it would add suspicion if he had someone looking after her while he’s doing the deed. Or, he might have had baby with him because he had no other choice. In a house, she could have been put down for a nap (crazy as this sounds), while he “took care of business.” In the wilderness, he couldn’t safely leave Baby K nearby, as he committed his crime.

Basically, I think it came down to logistics. And we already know, logistics aren’t PF’s strong suit. But thank goodness for that, or he might be out free right now.

MOO

ETA: We also don’t know what the true current status was of PF and KB’s relationship. If they were broken up, I would think it would have been difficult for PF to lure KB to another location.

Just wanted to say, everyone assumes that it was all about baby K and that PF was a good father. I am starting to doubt it. What proof do we have that he was a good father and that the child would have been safe in his hands if he managed to somehow pull Kelsey's murder without being caught?

Zero. I don't have any proof that he would have hurt baby K, but I on the fence about PF's paternal skills as well as his love for the baby.

 

[Trudie]

I wonder if P considered both KB & KK to be nothing more than burrs under his saddle & wanted both gone. Recruit one to kill the other. Both end up out of his life & cowboy P rides off, swinging his riata, hoping to rope his next queen.

 

[Noharg]

Frazee hires Colorado Springs defense attorney to represent him for civil suit

 

[Seattle1]

Jan 10, 2019
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - Patrick Frazee has officially hired criminal defense attorney Edward Farry to represent him in the wrongful death civil lawsuit filed against him by the Berreth family.
[...]
Frazee has until Jan. 29th to make a formal response.
Frazee hires Colorado Springs defense attorney to represent him for civil suit

 

[Peppermint Patty]

His goose is going to be cooked. I believe the FBI has plenty to prove the wrongful death case. And I think KK will tell all if she hasn't already. What a piece of poo his is.. to put it very nicely.

 

[Charlot123]

Thinking about this R couple. We truly don't know what they heard. We don't know who the involved players are. There are hints about other participants, question if KK is in protective custody. What does it tell us? That some other participants might have a criminal history and be quite scary.

I am asking myself, what if the story that the R's heard was more specific, but so scary that they got afraid for themselves, their own safety? What if they heard that some local criminals were discussing a murder ordered by "a Patrick from Colorado?" They didn't know that Patrick but they might have heard about the locals.

So the Rs get scared, as any human would be, and try to get more information to at least validate their call to the LE. And then they are told to "forget about it". And they did.

Then their call to the FBI when KB was killed might be more bold than we think of it. The question, "are you heroes?" might not be that unreasonable.

MOO. I still don't quite understand the "Idaho branch" of the situation. I am wondering why would PF ask KK to help out? It might be so that KK's ex-BF or second cousin had criminal past. And PF had none of these connections in CO.

 

[Peppermint Patty]

I have to admit.. I don't put a lot weight on the R couple attorneys. I think they just want to get some publicity.. Yes, they might have known a few things but not enough at the time to get the authorities to activate an investigation. They to me are just a pawn in the larger game. KK on the other hand was swooning over PF... That to me is a big focus.. If KB had any idea of what was going to happen, I would be really surprise... Still believe PF was just as nice as apple pie to her... she had no idea.

 

[Trudie]

I see this ending not as some expect.

 

[Dave F.]

You all need to take a step back and look at the facts, which are:
It is extremely difficult in Colorado to get a first degree murder conviction without a body, but legal developments in the last five years hjave made it possible to bypass a grand jury and go stright to the discovery phase. The net result is that prosecutpors investigate the case, and either solve it based on evidence or drop it. This case is in the earliest stages of that complex process.
The closest similar case is the one against Donthe Lucas in Pueblo. Police dug up his yard back in February 2013, and arrested him December 1, 2013. The case did not advance to plea entry until August 18, 2018 and at the end of December, the prosecution turned in a second preliminary list of witnesses that is 189 people. The is another motions hearing tentatively scheduled for February to primarily argue over the fact that the prosecution still refuses, after 5 full years, to signal that they are done with the investigation and to ensure that they have provided Mr. Lucas with all of the information they have on him. Setting a tentative trial date is not likely soon.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Thinking about this R couple. We truly don't know what they heard. We don't know who the involved players are. There are hints about other participants, question if KK is in protective custody. What does it tell us? That some other participants might have a criminal history and be quite scary.

I am asking myself, what if the story that the R's heard was more specific, but so scary that they got afraid for themselves, their own safety? What if they heard that some local criminals were discussing a murder ordered by "a Patrick from Colorado?" They didn't know that Patrick but they might have heard about the locals.

So the Rs get scared, as any human would be, and try to get more information to at least validate their call to the LE. And then they are told to "forget about it". And they did.

Then their call to the FBI when KB was killed might be more bold than we think of it. The question, "are you heroes?" might not be that unreasonable.

MOO. I still don't quite understand the "Indiana branch" of the situation. I am wondering why would PF ask KK to help out? It might be so that KK's ex-BF or second cousin had criminal past. And PF had none of these connections in CO.

Indiana Branch? WTH? I’ve only been offline an hour and a half! What did I miss?

 

[susiQ]

Thinking about this R couple. We truly don't know what they heard. We don't know who the involved players are. There are hints about other participants, question if KK is in protective custody. What does it tell us? That some other participants might have a criminal history and be quite scary.

I am asking myself, what if the story that the R's heard was more specific, but so scary that they got afraid for themselves, their own safety? What if they heard that some local criminals were discussing a murder ordered by "a Patrick from Colorado?" They didn't know that Patrick but they might have heard about the locals.

So the Rs get scared, as any human would be, and try to get more information to at least validate their call to the LE. And then they are told to "forget about it". And they did.

Then their call to the FBI when KB was killed might be more bold than we think of it. The question, "are you heroes?" might not be that unreasonable.

MOO. I still don't quite understand the "Indiana branch" of the situation. I am wondering why would PF ask KK to help out? It might be so that KK's ex-BF or second cousin had criminal past. And PF had none of these connections in CO.

Did you mean "Idaho Branch"?
Anyway, interesting take on the R's. We'll have to see what else they have spilled to the media. Right now, I'm not impressed by the first segment. Seemed self serving and no more than damage control. We shall see more tomorrow. More grist for our WS mill

 

[Peppermint Patty]

Ok, so early on I posted about a roping that PF had participated in and won something. I found it on an FB page. There was a picture of him and another man. the page was some roping for convicts. I've always felt he could have met someone there. Cowboys for Convicts. in CO. Hopefully this doesn't violate the rules. But I've always felt that he might have met someone else besides KK. While he asked her.. I don't think she was the only one. He seems desperate. Why??? I can't even come close to imagining why he would need KB gone so badly. Other than, he became so FIXATED on 'his' child. Meaning he was romantically done with KB and wanted the baby to himself. Nothing to do with money, all to do with what was going on his own mind. Brainstorming here..

 

[susiQ]

Indiana Branch? WTH? I’ve only been offline an hour and a half! What did I miss?

I'm certain she meant "Idaho Branch" I once referred to Twin Falls as "Twin Peaks." Gave a few members a chuckle, myself included

 

[Trudie]

You all need to take a step back and look at the facts, which are:
It is extremely difficult in Colorado to get a first degree murder conviction without a body, but legal developments in the last five years hjave made it possible to bypass a grand jury and go stright to the discovery phase. The net result is that prosecutpors investigate the case, and either solve it based on evidence or drop it. This case is in the earliest stages of that complex process.
The closest similar case is the one against Donthe Lucas in Pueblo. Police dug up his yard back in February 2013, and arrested him December 1, 2013. The case did not advance to plea entry until August 18, 2018 and at the end of December, the prosecution turned in a second preliminary list of witnesses that is 189 people. The is another motions hearing tentatively scheduled for February to primarily argue over the fact that the prosecution still refuses, after 5 full years, to signal that they are done with the investigation and to ensure that they have provided Mr. Lucas with all of the information they have on him. Setting a tentative trial date is not likely soon.

Well, ultimately, it’s up to the defendant. Does he want to live in county lock up for years? Doubtful. All confinement is bad but imo, prison is a heck of a lot better than a county jail. Once his atty has discovery & advises him, who knows!
I doubt it will be dropped, ever. I pray it won’t.

 

[Trudie]

Ok, so early on I posted about a roping that PF had participated in and won something. I found it on an FB page. There was a picture of him and another man. the page was some roping for convicts. I've always felt he could have met someone there. Cowboys for Convicts. in CO. Hopefully this doesn't violate the rules. But I've always felt that he might have met someone else besides KK. While he asked her.. I don't think she was the only one. He seems desperate. Why??? I can't even come close to imagining why he would need KB gone so badly. Other than, he became so FIXATED on 'his' child. Meaning he was romantically done with KB and wanted the baby to himself. Nothing to do with money, all to do with what was going on his own mind. Brainstorming here..

I’m thinking he met a lot of women. We rodeo just like the boys do.

 

[Charlot123]

Indiana Branch? WTH? I’ve only been offline an hour and a half! What did I miss?

This is me having worked for 13 hours with jetlag

 

[Peppermint Patty]

I’m thinking he met a lot of women. We rodeo just like the boys do.

I grew up in rodeo, my family had a dairy farm, and also hay farms. I know the PF types like the back of my hand. He's a 'smooth operator' to the gals that don't really know. Funny thing is.. I can't find any significant team roping results for him. He's not really a big 'player' in that game. But it seems like he might talk like he is with the ladies that don't know much different. <puke>

 

[Dave F.]

The entire state of Idaho is served by the FBI office in Salt Lake City, Utah; which is 212 Highway miles distant from Hansen. There is a small contigent of less than half a dozen deputy special agents in Pocatello; which is 107 miles away. Hanson itself is 1279 people who undoubtedly ALL know KKL, her children and her parents, brothers and sisters. Undoubtedly, some of the elders knew her grandparents. Perhaps some know her dog(s).
How many government agents are required "to be crawling all over the town", searching, searching, searching?

 

[Trudie]

This is me having worked for 13 hours with jetlag

Well, don’t go to bed. Even though you’ve corrected & explained, I’m guessing there will be hundreds of “Indiana, who went there, was there a murder” posts. Reminiscent of last night, the KK/bff confusion & who was emotional. Unbelievable.