CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #30 *ARREST*

[Trudie]

BBM

The fact that she hasn't been been arrested might be related to ongoing interrogation and plea arrangements. Does anybody know- if a suspect (KK) hasn't been arrested, does LE have to turn over evidence obtained from her to the defense? Could that be a reason for no arrest yet, looking to delay giving information to the defense until they get everything they can.

It is possible that LE actually had a lot of circumstantial evidence but little hard evidence against PF until someone talked (KK). The talking may have sent LE back to the condo to retrieve evidence, maybe the DNA of the person talking. The killer. Just spitballing here, but I'll be accountable to myself if I'm way off (again).

I will also add that it would be very hard to get someone to kill someone, due to threats. I think it would be much easier for a manipulator to get an obsessive woman to do the same. MOO.

I posted similar, earlier. A person with too many details, is not involved “just a little”. I might tell a friend, “I think my friend, Watchman, robbed a gas station today, at gunpoint, but I wasn’t there, he’s asked me 3X to help, tho.”
LE questions me, I tell them, “Yes, Watchman grabbed an orange crush, then shot the girl with a braid wearing the green polka dot shirt, grabbed the money, started to leave but stopped to grab a bag of chips. Ruffles, the low salt variety. That’s all I can tell you, bc I wasn’t with him. I’m from a good family, I was a RQ, now nurse.”
LE would assume there’s zero probability you shared trite details with me, despite us having a LT relationship, of some kind. Imo

Yes, imo, KK was able to point LE to evidence. Maybe she told them “KB is dead, look at my phone for proof. He called me Saturday, told me he ___________ KB in the _________ and he's afraid he didn't clean the ________good enough and thinks he left his Speedy coffee cup on the table. That’s all I know. I was home. Well, yea, I did go...but only to get the phone. But I was scared, I think he’s killed before.” LE then confirms evidence. P is arrested. On and on.
Only speculating.
The civvie suit timing really made me reconsider things.
Moo

ETA: w/o implying a specific person, imo, if someone knocked on KB’s door, once she opened it, they’d have the advantage to forcibly enter, without being asked in.

 

[Esma]

Makes perfect sense to me. Rodeo being the common interest that likely started in HS and carried on. Shen being a Rodeo Queen would be expected to go to quite a number of other rodeos, and if she is so totally infatuated with him, would be sure to arrange their schedules to synchronize

Yes, it's a good theory. But other theories could fit as well. It's hard to pick one and marry it without facts.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm curious why DM is considered MSM here, when it's largely viewed as tabloid media? The high majority of their reporting here is just pulled from FB comments.

You mean like Nancy Grace?
Jmo the DM gets it right more often...if just as hysterically

 

[Love Never Fails]

Absolutely. Idk what is happening behind closed doors.
I do believe once they have you it's not so simple to get up & go.
I’ve not said he’s not guilty. Idk.
I’ve tried to follow some theories, too. Some make sense, some having me laughing deliriously (not at the crime).
IMO, as things stand now, KK is guilty of a hell of a lot more than driving a phone across state line.

I do respect everyone’s opinions & try to be polite. I always read your posts twice, with great interest.

If we ever get a news update, I’ll know more. The R’s only confirmed what my opinion of KK was.

I do believe she was in KBs home when the murder was committed. Right now I still believe PF committed the murder but I sure think she could have helped, maybe with some type of drug. Maybe she is sick enough to want to see KB tortured. Maybe she and KB had words before. But what a sicko PF is if he actually asked her to commit the murder. Look, LE isn’t talking. But are we sure he solicited KK three times? Maybe he solicited someone else and when they said no, he turned to her. We don’t know if people are talking to LE or where KK is. But we do know people are talking to each other. This case gets weirder. Maybe it’s because we are told absolutely nothing.

I do agree she is guilty of more than stealing a phone and disposing of it.

 

[cluciano63]

Can’t help puzzling over what LE has on PF. Besides electronics, I mean. Could her purse have been on his land, or her ID? Probably not, but if it is just texts, that seems to open a door for his lawyer imo.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

As far as we know, PF has no other children, again as far as we know...I’m wondering if he does...

The timing of KB entering the picture,and having a baby with PF, along with the timing of KK divorce. KK holding a torch for PF the whole time she was married. Then KK stays living with ex,for the children's sake. Yeah. Right.
Wonder why PF feels railroaded.
Easy to play the damsel in destress,and throw PF under the bus. While clinging ever so tightly to the Perfect Rodeo Queen Crown. Make it look it was all his idea,and his idea only.
The whole time seething with jealousy, over the new baby Mama,bucking her off.
MOO.

 

[Trudie]

Employers and LE are two different things. She has no protection from LE other than a lawyer and pleading the fifth.

If she is “ill” it can be a long drawn out process to get to her. As posted yesterday, Mark Hacking, to name one, went to the hospital, after killing his wife.
idk if she is ill, hospitalized or on a cruise ship to Tahiti sipping an umbrella drink. My point, we really know nothing. Only that, yes, P is in jail based on evidence.
Moo....if someone is dirty enough to dispose of evidence, she’s dirty enough to plant evidence.
Until I hear otherwise, imo, KK is obsessed to the nth degree with PF & hated KB/baby & the entire situation.
IF she’s involved to a higher level, I’m glad the baby was out of the home.
It makes no sense she was petrified of PF yet arrived in CO at the appx time KB goes missing.

Moo/speculation

 

[The Farm]

Employers and LE are two different things. She has no protection from LE other than a lawyer and pleading the fifth.

As I said two different animals.

And am wondering IF and it is an IF she is under a doctors care saying she is suicidal or on the verge of a breakdown at that point can LE question her and her answers hold up in a court of law because of her state of mind at the time she is deemed to fragile by a doctor to answer to LE whether they have the right to question her or not. It is a question for an attorney because I do not know that answer but know enough when someone is in such a state as that they are off limits as to their validity.
I would think so anyway.

 

[Trudie]

As I said two different animals.

And am wondering IF and it is an IF she is under a doctors care saying she is suicidal or on the verge of a breakdown at that point can LE question her and her answers hold up in a court of law because of her state of mind at the time she is deemed to fragile by a doctor to answer to LE whether they have the right to question her or not. It is a question for an attorney because I do not know that answer but know enough when someone is in such a state as that they are off limits as to their validity.
I would think so anyway.

Police Requests for Contact. Police sometimes request that a hospital or other providers contact them if a patient arrives under certain conditions, e.g., evidence of drug use; traffic injuries; or injuries consistent with the commission of a crime. Unless a specific law requires such disclosures or the disclosure would otherwise fit within one of the exceptions cited above, the provider should explain to the police that state and federal laws prohibit such disclosures. Similarly, police will sometimes ask that officers be notified when a patient is ready for discharge. Again, unless the disclosure would fit within one of the exceptions cited above, the provider should generally explain to the officer that the provider may not make such a disclosure without the patient’s authorization.

Conclusion. Although providers can and should cooperate with law enforcement as appropriate (especially when doing so is necessary to keep themselves or others safe), providers should remember that they are not agents of the police, and that they owe separate duties to their patients. Unless the disclosure or access is allowed as set forth above, providers should not disclose protected health information to the police and must carefully consider the situation before allowing police access to patients. If the police officer demands access anyway, the provider should not lie or physically interfere, but should assert appropriate objections and document the circumstances. The best course in avoiding such situations is to educate and work with police and other law enforcement officials in advance so all parties know and can agree on the limits and appropriate protocols for handling such situations.

Police, Providers, Patients and HIPAA

Let me add, I asked my atty guy friend abt this yesterday. )He is NOT a Colorado bar member), in my state, if a person wanted for questioning (POI) becomes a patient, it’s a long drawn out ordeal to get a Judge to sign a warrant. Why? Because the Judge is not a doctor & he must respect the advice of the doctor. Like the doctor must respect the Judge. Now, it could be dif in CO/ID, Idk
I know KK is not a POI. If she’s hospitalized, they likely won’t name her as POI bc then everyone will want to know why she’s not arrested. Right? And, it could cause her condition to last longer than anticipated.
All moo.

 

[SaranWrapPetunia]

They are in their 30's now -- KK's since graduated college, married and divorced, and had at least 2 children. I don't believe that this is someone fixated on a first love of 15 years ago. Not buying it....

A new Netflix series, Back with the Ex, has a couple that were young lovers. He said there wasn't a day that went by in the last 28 years that he didn't think of her (he was married with kids). Some people call it "the one that got away" or "soul mate", and more than often I imagine it's one-sided.

 

[InvSmith]

BBM

The fact that she hasn't been been arrested might be related to ongoing interrogation and plea arrangements. Does anybody know- if a suspect (KK) hasn't been arrested, does LE have to turn over evidence obtained from her to the defense? Could that be a reason for no arrest yet, looking to delay giving information to the defense until they get everything they can.

It is possible that LE actually had a lot of circumstantial evidence but little hard evidence against PF until someone talked (KK). The talking may have sent LE back to the condo to retrieve evidence, maybe the DNA of the person talking. The killer. Just spitballing here, but I'll be accountable to myself if I'm way off (again).

I will also add that it would be very hard to get someone to kill someone, due to threats. I think it would be much easier for a manipulator to get an obsessive woman to do the same. MOO.

Attorneys say circumstantial evidence often but it is the only kind of evidence except eye witness testimony or a sworn confession (direct evidence.) DNA is also circumstantial (indirect evidence.)

 

[UnicornDragon]

You mean like Nancy Grace?
Jmo the DM gets it right more often...if just as hysterically

No, like National Enquirer. It's not called the Daily Fail without cause.
My qualms with it is that the majority of what I've seen from them is quotes from FB ranting. So if DM is allowed, then FB comments - the basis of DM reporting - should be allowed.

 

[24Brix]

I was caught off guard by some really interesting similarities between this case and another that was reported on extensively in the Magic Valley Newspaper (TF, ID) back in 2009. Read the whole thing and I think you’ll see what mean. (I don’t believe the 2009 case dragged on long enough to be tracked here. Or, at least, I didn’t find it.)

Woolsey gets at least six months in prison

 

[Love Never Fails]

The timing of KB entering the picture,and having a baby with PF, along with the timing of KK divorce. KK holding a torch for PF the whole time she was married. Then KK stays living with ex,for the children's sake. Yeah. Right.
Wonder why PF feels railroaded.
Easy to play the damsel in destress,and throw PF under the bus. While clinging ever so tightly to the Perfect Rodeo Queen Crown. Make it look it was all his idea,and his idea only.
The whole time seething with jealousy, over the new baby Mama,bucking her off.
MOO.

I don’t think she did this alone at all. She and PF were in this together. Or he would be screaming...why would he stay quiet to protect KK and let someone else raise his daughter?

 

[Artis]

And even if they met during high school at a little rodeo team event, it doesn't change the fact that they both still lived 700 miles apart their whole lives up to current. She has gone to college, married, divorced, had kids. How does a bond 700 miles away have 'a hold on her' after a few high school road trips 16 years ago? This one takes the cake.

Since we're all just speculating... could be that she connected with him, as an adult, possibly while still married, on the root of all evil, Facebook. Messaging may have led to trips to Colorado (before and/or after divorce). In the men time, he's involved with Kelsey and has a child.

 

[The Farm]

Police Requests for Contact. Police sometimes request that a hospital or other providers contact them if a patient arrives under certain conditions, e.g., evidence of drug use; traffic injuries; or injuries consistent with the commission of a crime. Unless a specific law requires such disclosures or the disclosure would otherwise fit within one of the exceptions cited above, the provider should explain to the police that state and federal laws prohibit such disclosures. Similarly, police will sometimes ask that officers be notified when a patient is ready for discharge. Again, unless the disclosure would fit within one of the exceptions cited above, the provider should generally explain to the officer that the provider may not make such a disclosure without the patient’s authorization.

Conclusion. Although providers can and should cooperate with law enforcement as appropriate (especially when doing so is necessary to keep themselves or others safe), providers should remember that they are not agents of the police, and that they owe separate duties to their patients. Unless the disclosure or access is allowed as set forth above, providers should not disclose protected health information to the police and must carefully consider the situation before allowing police access to patients. If the police officer demands access anyway, the provider should not lie or physically interfere, but should assert appropriate objections and document the circumstances. The best course in avoiding such situations is to educate and work with police and other law enforcement officials in advance so all parties know and can agree on the limits and appropriate protocols for handling such situations.

Police, Providers, Patients and HIPAA

BUT during the course of a criminal investigation which is what this is, can anything the person being asked the questions, can their answers be used in a court of law? If in fact they are in there for mental stress and possibly drugged out?
That is my main question, not if the police can have access to the patient.

 

[mrstfs]

Yes, it's a good theory. But other theories could fit as well. It's hard to pick one and marry it without facts.

You’ve strongly implied in several posts that your theory is that PF and KK were not romantically linked and they were only linked through a 3rd party who might have bought a dog from PF. (Based on a photo you came across on the internet). Good theory however I’m curious how this precludes the romantic involvement. Would like to explore your theory more, could you help me understand your basis for the no romantic link thinking? TIA

 

[Lady Justice21]

I was caught off guard by some really interesting similarities between this case and another that was reported on extensively in the Magic Valley Newspaper (TF, ID) back in 2009. Read the whole thing and I think you’ll see what mean. (I don’t believe the 2009 case dragged on long enough to be tracked here. Or, at least, I didn’t find it.)

Woolsey gets at least six months in prison

Interesting defense attorney in that one...... seems he's not clueless to criminal law.

MOO

 

[Artis]

I thought that was an entirely different nurse who was cursed by having the same name? One of the DM being the Daily Fail, since I think they were the first report on that.

Much like this only in this case it was ABC News:

ABC’s Brian Ross suggests tie between Aurora shooter and the tea party (UPDATE: ABC responds)

ALL media is a mine field and full of sleaze bags. I'm an avid reader and into global events and have become an expert at spotting propaganda (deliberate lies). With crime stories it's just straight up wrong information, in the chase for a scoop, that you have to watch out for.

 

[UnicornDragon]

You’ve strongly implied in several posts that your theory is that PF and KK were not romantically linked and they were only linked through a 3rd party who might have bought a dog from PF. (Based on a photo you came across on the internet). Good theory however I’m curious how this precludes the romantic involvement. Would like to explore your theory more, could you help me understand your basis for the no romantic link thinking? TIA

We've only heard 2nd/3rd hand gossip that they are romantically linked. Could just be Ride or Die buddies, not banging each other.

The majority of the romantic link is from the R interview. But the R interview is hinky/suspect at best to many people here. So why are parts of it taken as gospel, but parts are ignored?