CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #32 *ARREST*

[yawningreyhound]

Really? On the Woodland Park Community Page, or the Florrisant Community Page?! That is what I am referencing.

oh, i'm just referencing FB, not a particular page!

 

[myraesque]

myraesque, I apologize if I came across as dismissive of your theory. You are correct, she could have flown, maybe even a commercial flight. (Although that would leave a strong trail of breadcrumbs.)

She might have flown with another person, and she might have given them an innocent reason why she needed to be flown to Woodland Park and back. If that is true, then I'm sure that pilot-person will eventually come forward. Loose lips and all that.

Again, welcome.

This is not my theory, if my memory serves me correctly it was put forth by Gardener1850, but I just figured out how to quote other posts and no time to find it now. Sorry. I was providing a line of reasoning with the scant evidence we have that could’ve meshed with that theory. If she did fly, I do not think she flew commercial or with any reputable individual who is likely to come forward. If this happened I’m sure investigators are aware of it. I was just coming on the record to say, per my experience flying in small planes to small places and in keeping with what we know about what people have said and where we know the cellphone pinged, it is possible.

 

[riolove77]

I am honestly struggling with why people think there's still a chance that PF will be let off or have charges dropped. This guy is behind this. KK is involved as all heck, but PF is not innocent.

 

[KSinMT]

With regards to the parking debate, I'll admit I'm guilty of parking sideways in front of people's driveways if parking is limited and I think I'm only going to be inside for a few minutes and if someone needs to leave then I would move my car for them. I do it at my mom's all the time.

If PF parked like that on a regular basis then I wouldn't find anything suspicious about it and on the day of the crime if a neighbor or someone saw his truck parked around the corner or in an unusual spot vs where he typically parked then that would be suspicious. If part of his plan was to say he picked the baby up like any other day then him parking the same way he usually did wouldn't look suspicious. JMO

Edited for typos

 

[LovelyB]

I was not postulating that she flew herself, but musing upon a previous theory that she could’ve flown with someone. Not that this is the most likely mode of travel but just that it is possible.

I don’t remember anyone suggesting KK had a pilot license?

I think it's possible... I live in Northern VA and took a biplane over the horse country, taking off from a small airport in Culpeper and flying over Middleburg and Shenandoah Valley area. The pilot pointed out lots of little landing strips in the area, and we did a low flyby over his house. There was a 'neighborhood' landing strip that I doubt many people outside the area would be aware of. I don't know any details about CO country, but I can see it as plausible.

 

[GraceG]

Welcome.

This question is for everybody: do we have any credible, verifiable information that KK had a pilot's license?

I ask because I haven't kept up with all the threads and posts, either, so I may have missed something. I see a bunch of people speculating that KK flew herself to WP and back, but I don't know if there is anything upon which to base this speculation.

By the way, there aren't any general aviation airports in Teller County, and the nearest GA airports would be in Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Canõn City, or Buena Vista. It is possible that there are small landing strips on the South Park plains east of Wilkerson Pass, but it would be like landing a plane in the bush, and it would probably draw attention.

Speculation that PF being a farrier probably knows ranchers who have landing strips.....well, I haven't seen that up here. There are no "big ranches" like that, IMO. The only terrain that would allow it anywhere near Florissant is on, as I said, the flat land to the West, and that land is pretty useless for big ranching and has been broken up into relatively small parcels and was sold back in the 60's and 70's to people who wanted "land in Colorado." That's where the infamous Robert Dear had his compound.

Edited to add a link to a map of Colorado airports.
https://www.codot.gov/programs/aeronautics/colorado-airport-system/ColoradoAirportMap

I haven't followed the thread for the last couple of weeks. If by KK you mean the nurse in Idaho referenced in the media - no, she does not have a pilot's license (that info is publically available but finding it on the faa website can be confusing - if you mean someone else please drop me a private message with their legal name and I'll look it up in the system).

 

[enelram]

just a tidbit of info concerning the landfill search in Fountain:
There are 24 separate parcels of land owned by various members
of the Frazee extended familiy. All in the Fountain area of El
Paso County. Some are larger acreage.
What if PF used a relative's trash bin to dispose of the body, then
the hauling company picked up the bin and took it to Fountain
Landfill. Seems possible to me.

 

[Sillybilly]

P is innocent, at this moment. He’s not had a trial to prove him guilty. We’ve not heard the evidence.

Imo, the civil suit was filed for a particular reason. A reason we are not privy to.
Jmo

The presumption of innocence is a legal principle that is to be adhered to throughout the legal / judicial process. The general public is allowed to have an opinion.

 

[riolove77]

JMO, who knows IF he said it and IF the statement falls under hearsay or would be an exception.

Colorado Evidence Rules See 802 and 803
Colorado Rules of Evidence - JD Porter LLC


MOO

If KK was testifying to it, then it wouldn't be hearsay because he said it directly to her. It's firsthand information.

Now, whether he said it or not is another story....

 

[Trudie]

With regards to the parking debate, I'll admit I'm guilty of parking sideways in front of people's driveways if parking is limited and I think I'm only going to be inside for a few minutes and if someone needs to leave then I would move my car for them. I do it at my mom's all the time.

If PF parked like that on a regular basis then I wouldn't find anything suspicious about it and on the day of the crime if a neighbor or someone saw his truck parked around the corner or in an unusual spot vs where he typically parked then that would be suspicious. If part of his plan was to say he picked the baby up like any other day then him parking the same way he usually did wouldn't look suspicious. JMO

Edited for typos

Ita. I think his parking position that day is the least of his concerns

 

[GraceG]

True enough if they used a non towered flight field or not using IFR. I have no idea what the weather conditions were that day. Or any of the days we’re talking about. Just seems to me to be unlikely

Air Traffic data, depending on type is only kept 5-45 days so it's long gone anyway, but good point!

 

[enelram]

Welcome.

This question is for everybody: do we have any credible, verifiable information that KK had a pilot's license?

I ask because I haven't kept up with all the threads and posts, either, so I may have missed something. I see a bunch of people speculating that KK flew herself to WP and back, but I don't know if there is anything upon which to base this speculation.

By the way, there aren't any general aviation airports in Teller County, and the nearest GA airports would be in Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Canõn City, or Buena Vista. It is possible that there are small landing strips on the South Park plains east of Wilkerson Pass, but it would be like landing a plane in the bush, and it would probably draw attention.

Speculation that PF being a farrier probably knows ranchers who have landing strips.....well, I haven't seen that up here. There are no "big ranches" like that, IMO. The only terrain that would allow it anywhere near Florissant is on, as I said, the flat land to the West, and that land is pretty useless for big ranching and has been broken up into relatively small parcels and was sold back in the 60's and 70's to people who wanted "land in Colorado." That's where the infamous Robert Dear had his compound.

Edited to add a link to a map of Colorado airports.
https://www.codot.gov/programs/aeronautics/colorado-airport-system/ColoradoAirportMap

KKL does not have a pilot license as per FAA Registry.

 

[Trudie]

Hopefully, the landfill search turns up valuable evidence.
Fingers crossed the weather cooperates.

 

[PommyMommy]

The Search For Kelsey Berreth Expands; Where Is Texas Mom Emily Wade? Crime Stories With Nancy Grace podcast
Crime Stories reporter John Lemley also joins the group to explore the case of missing Texas mother Emily Wade, who disappeared after dinner and a movie with a male co-worker.

 

[Bill Carson]

I am honestly struggling with why people think there's still a chance that PF will be let off or have charges dropped. This guy is behind this. KK is involved as all heck, but PF is not innocent.

I think it's two things:

1. They have not been given enough official information to reconcile the seemingly unexplainable facts and circumstances of the case. This would be especially true for people who know PF as a nice guy or good father, because of the way that the brain resolves cognitive dissonance, meaning the conflict between their perception of a person and the awful things that he must be capable of if he is responsible for KB's death. So people say, "I can't believe he would....."

And also 2) going to the "chance that PF will be let off," there's what really happened, and then there's what the prosecution can prove. The State may have a really good evidence, but they haven't shared that with us, nor has that evidence been challenged by the defenders.

And I guess I can throw in a third reason, and that is that reasonable people can envision other things that might have happened to KB. Obviously, LE has ruled out "other things," but they haven't even told us why they think she is dead, much less why they ruled out the other things.

Going back to a discussion from long ago, I think (MOO) it has to do with whether people are more likely to watch Perry Mason/Matlock or Law & Order SVU/CSI.

But to close, I think the important thing for all of us to remember is that (I think) the purpose of these forums is to explore through civil and respectful discussion what really happened rather than to expect everyone to take up a torch and pitchfork.

But reasonable people may disagree....

 

[WildWest]

Someone else mentioned that CB talked about people potentially seeing KB as she drove towards Pueblo and surmised that possibly her phone had pinged in that direction, which is towards her work, an airport, which would seem logical. Let’s assume for a moment that did happen.

I'm very curious when get more information on the pings. I saw a map on one of the Denver news channels very early on and I have never seen it again. Likely I misinterpreted the circle dots as pings instead of indicating cities, but I can't get it out of my head, it appeared the phone went through Cheyenne Wy. I'm also curious if the arc used from WP to Gooding in the map is arched up for a reason? They could have used an upside down arc (phone going through Utah). At the time I figured it was classified info the news was not supposed to share so they pulled that map, but also think I misinterpreted it as others did so they made a clearer one. Idk.

 

[soap mama]

Ok, thanks. I thought it was since he could say he never said that, and if it wasn't in writing or recorded there would be no way to prove it. Anyone can just say someone said anything then! I guess it would be left up to a jury to decide. Imo

Yes, just can’t admit the he said she said conversations

 

[riolove77]

I think it's two things:

1. They have not been given enough official information to reconcile the seemingly unexplainable facts and circumstances of the case. This would be especially true for people who know PF as a nice guy or good father, because of the way that the brain resolves cognitive dissonance, meaning the conflict between their perception of a person and the awful things that he must be capable of if he is responsible for KB's death. So people say, "I can't believe he would....."

And also 2) going to the "chance that PF will be let off," there's what really happened, and then there's what the prosecution can prove. The State may have a really good evidence, but they haven't shared that with us, nor has that evidence been challenged by the defenders.

And I guess I can throw in a third reason, and that is that reasonable people can envision other things that might have happened to KB. Obviously, LE has ruled out "other things," but they haven't even told us why they think she is dead, much less why they ruled out the other things.

Going back to a discussion from long ago, I think (MOO) it has to do with whether people are more likely to watch Perry Mason/Matlock or Law & Order SVU/CSI.

But to close, I think the important thing for all of us to remember is that (I think) the purpose of these forums is to explore through civil and respectful discussion what really happened rather than to expect everyone to take up a torch and pitchfork.

But reasonable people may disagree....

I meant people on these boards, not people who know him.

As far as the DA goes, they aren't going to tell us anything. He already said the case wouldn't be tried in the media. I respect that. We don't share things!!!!

No one is taking up a torch and pitchfork; but what people are doing is saying "Well I haven't seen any evidence, so...." But that doesn't mean there isn't any.

PF wasn't arrested on anyone's word alone. The three charges of solicitation were not based on hearsay. The two charges of murder one are not based on hearsay. There is obviously a plethora of evidence we are not privy to.

There is obviously some level of involvement from at least KK, if not another or others. But that doesn't mean KK is solely responsible and PF is being railroaded. I just don't get the insistence.

Maybe it's just me though. Obviously I'm biased from a legal standpoint.

 

[Artis]

I am honestly struggling with why people think there's still a chance that PF will be let off or have charges dropped. This guy is behind this. KK is involved as all heck, but PF is not innocent.

It's important to remember that he lied to her mother about Kelsey saying she was going to Soap Lake. I also don't believe baby K was due to be with him over the Thanksgiving long weekend.

 

[Bill Carson]

I meant people on these boards, not people who know him.

As far as the DA goes, they aren't going to tell us anything. He already said the case wouldn't be tried in the media. I respect that. We don't share things!!!!

No one is taking up a torch and pitchfork; but what people are doing is saying "Well I haven't seen any evidence, so...." But that doesn't mean there isn't any.

PF wasn't arrested on anyone's word alone. The three charges of solicitation were not based on hearsay. The two charges of murder one are not based on hearsay. There is obviously a plethora of evidence we are not privy to.

There is obviously some level of involvement from at least KK, if not another or others. But that doesn't mean KK is solely responsible and PF is being railroaded. I just don't get the insistence.

Maybe it's just me though. Obviously I'm biased from a legal standpoint.

BBM. With all due respect, you do come across as an attorney who would be more likely to sit at the table closer to the jury, and I know that you know what I mean.

I'll let people who feel PF might stand a chance of getting off answer for themselves. You asked a question and I speculated, and I should not have. If there are those who feel this way, I hope that they will feel free to answer without the fear of being intimidated for expressing their opinion.

I would expect the jury will be instructed that the fact that PF has been arrested and charged is not to be considered by them as evidence that he is guilty of the crime. You are suggesting that since we are not on the jury that we should take law enforcement's word for it. I respect your opinion, but I will also wait--eagerly--to see their plethora of evidence.