CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #32 *ARREST*

[bonjoviblonde]

bjblonde, not to worry, you're not missing anything.

IMO, someone suggested for some reason that Baby K's name might be linked to KK, who also goes by KL.

There is absolutely no connection whatsoever to be made b/t the names, IMO, so again, no, nothing missed on your end.

Case of "nothing to see here," IMO.

Isn’t KK also KL? Which I thought was K. Lee?

Yes I know about the Lee last name but still don’t really see the similarity. IMO. Not to mention Kelsey’s name also starts with a K and ends in an “e” sound.

<modsnipped>

 

[GordianKnot]

This baby name thing is both ridiculous and pointless.

It’s a stretch at best, and entirely irrelevant to this crime.

If you look hard enough at anything, you can come up with a coincidence that sounds believable. It doesn’t make it true.

It’s a rabbit hole of nonsense.

MG, I could not agree with you more.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Ccging]

what I do not understand about this case:

1. Assuming you are PF, how can you have intense hatred for KB but still have love and concern for little K? And since we have been talking about looks, little K, KB and CB all
look strikingly similar, so there is a great chance that as she grows older, little K would just look and maybe even sound and act more and more like KB and CB. I totally understand that there are people who hate their "baby's parent" and not the baby, but in this case I think the disconnect needed here is a big one.

2. Why does PF want little K? If he really wants to be "free," why does he want a baby? I think it is common that actual kidnappers abandon children because they require a lot of time and attention. Granted he apparently has help at home, but why does he want the baby?

3. Even though KB seemed to be self sufficient and independent, not so long ago she was 7,8,9, mos pregnant. Who drove her to drs' appts? Who drove her and the baby to follow up appts? Who helped her in the first few months after she gave birth? If it was PF, then he must have felt or acted as if he felt concerned for her and her welfare. Or was he never this solicitous? Did she go home to her parents during this time?

Do not understand the motives here really. Read posts on and on but I do not get it.

Lots of unknowns.

1. I think it’s easy for people like PF to disassociate a mother from a child.

Purely IMO, but I’ve always wondered just how excited he was about having a child. I’m not sure he necessarily took care of the baby as much as he did because he was a wonderful father, I believe it was more convenience that his job allowed him to and I think mama F helped a lot.

2. We don’t know that he truly wants the baby. He was telling people that KB was crazy and going to harm the baby, yet IF that were true a concerned caring father would have taken steps through the courts to protect the baby, IMO. PF chose murder as a solution. I don’t get the feeling the baby is around because he truly loves her, I could be wrong, but I just don’t see it. I think he thought he may get money if she was KB’s beneficiary once KB was dead. MOO.

3. I wish we knew the answers to all of this. I don’t believe PF was the person that helped KB with all of this, but I could be wrong and maybe at that point in time he was putting on one heck of an act if he was helping and caring to KB. I tend to think she was forced to rely on herself ALOT.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Been thinking exactly the same as you. As far as baby K, PF sees her as extension of himself, so she has to be with him. And when she gets older, he will see him in her. There is also a very fine line between love and hate, Appatently PF decided to hate KB but love Baby K. The mindf-ery Baby K would get exposed to in such an upbringing is substantial.

As far as who was there for KB when she was pregnant and right after giving birth? Was PF there to “support?” No info has been shared as far as I know. I’ve also wondered about PFs mother’s role during that time.

Hoping one day soon we will find out.

MOO

I'm postive that if a man truly loved a child that he would not separate the child from their mom.
Selfish love isn't real love. It's a possession.

 

[srg]

I'm postive that if a man truly loved a child that he would not separate the child from their mom.
Selfish love isn't real love. It's a possession.

Agree, it’s all very twisted. And to ckarify, I didn’t say PF truly loved his child. He sees his child is extension of himself, not real love for her.

Clearly, to kill the mother of your child so you can have the child to yourself is “selfish” and more importantly, it is murder.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

This case is starting to remind me a little of the Watts case. I think some people have formed opinions from what they think is “inside information” from “those sites who shall not be named”. In the Watts case 99% of the rumors turned out to be completely untrue. Maybe this case will be the same or maybe not. Maybe some of the gossip and rumors will end up being true. We don’t know yet. We don’t have a lot of details and the media in this case has been the worst I’ve ever seen. They get almost everything wrong. I’m hesitant to believe anything even MSM has to say about this case. It’s bizarre.

And I am speaking of this case in general, not just on this board.

 

[Bill Carson]

I'm afraid that when we learn what PF's "motive" was, it will be so off the charts in terms of its idiocy and illogicality that it will merely serve to amplify the tragedy of KB's murder.

That's just fear talking. Fear is a feeling. Feelings aren't facts.

If you're looking for a rational motive, you are looking in the wrong place.

As much as we like to deny it, people make decisions and are motivated based upon emotions, not logic.

When a person allows her mind to seriously entertain the commission of a violent and heinous act, it is not because she has weighed the pros and cons and decided that the benefits outweigh the risks. No, she has shut off her prefrontal cortex and with it the ability to reason, and she is being controlled by the lizard brain in the amygdala. Fight or flight. Emotions, instincts, impulses, aggression.

This is why even the smartest criminals do such stupid things that get them caught: they are not capable of thinking rationally when the lizard brain has taken control. They can't put all of the steps together in logical sequence and then carry them out. Actual motives for crimes like this will never make sense because they are not based upon reason or logic.

So if you are looking for motive in this or any other crime, don't look for logic, look for emotions.

 

[k-mac]

Maybe at first KK was so shocked by the solicitation she didn’t even consider it. We don’t know the true context of the dialogue between KK and her BFF. Was it “oh my gosh! PF asked me to kill KB for him! Should I tell someone? He clearly is out of his mind!!! Or “PF said the only way we can move forward in our relationship and parent little K together is to get rid of KB”.

yes this area interests me very much.
people are very good at playing down their role and participation in things every day of the week.

imo only, KK and PF likely talked about the big bad Kelsey often and how in the way she was, then she has the gall to cement her place in woodland park by purchasing a condo.
they bitched on together regularly and somewhere PF says we should kill her you know, get rid of the , how good would it be hey?
just you and me babe.
you wanna do it?

could be as simple and off the cuff as that, the solicitation imo.

the cival suit from her parents implies he had been cruel to KB for a period of time.
he had been upping the anti to rid her and she wouldn't budge.
that's why he killed her.

moo

 

[k-mac]

what I do not understand about this case:

1. Assuming you are PF, how can you have intense hatred for KB but still have love and concern for little K? And since we have been talking about looks, little K, KB and CB all
look strikingly similar, so there is a great chance that as she grows older, little K would just look and maybe even sound and act more and more like KB and CB. I totally understand that there are people who hate their "baby's parent" and not the baby, but in this case I think the disconnect needed here is a big one.

2. Why does PF want little K? If he really wants to be "free," why does he want a baby? I think it is common that actual kidnappers abandon children because they require a lot of time and attention. Granted he apparently has help at home, but why does he want the baby?

3. Even though KB seemed to be self sufficient and independent, not so long ago she was 7,8,9, mos pregnant. Who drove her to drs' appts? Who drove her and the baby to follow up appts? Who helped her in the first few months after she gave birth? If it was PF, then he must have felt or acted as if he felt concerned for her and her welfare. Or was he never this solicitous? Did she go home to her parents during this time?

Do not understand the motives here really. Read posts on and on but I do not get it.

some people are really connected to the " fruit of their loins' mentality. its instinct.

 

[GordianKnot]

If you're looking for a rational motive, you are looking in the wrong place.

As much as we like to deny it, people make decisions and are motivated based upon emotions, not logic.

When a person allows her mind to seriously entertain the commission of a violent and heinous act, it is not because she has weighed the pros and cons and decided that the benefits outweigh the risks. No, she has shut off her prefrontal cortex and with it the ability to reason, and she is being controlled by the lizard brain in the amygdala. Fight or flight. Emotions, instincts, impulses, aggression.

This is why even the smartest criminals do such stupid things that get them caught: they are not capable of thinking rationally when the lizard brain has taken control. They can't put all of the steps together in logical sequence and then carry them out. Actual motives for crimes like this will never make sense because they are not based upon reason or logic.

So if you are looking for motive in this or any other crime, don't look for logic, look for emotions.

Agreed that there's no point in looking for a rational motive in the case of PF.
Primordial slime just oozes. It doesn't need or have a reason.

Largely agree with the rest of your post also, with this proviso: there are some perps who do not commit crimes in the heat of passion, they do so with cold and calculated precision. Many violent crimes are based on the criminal's practical self-interests, for example, financial gain, vs. emotion. So there is a method to their madness. It's just evil method.

 

[Bill Carson]

This case is starting to remind me a little of the Watts case. I think some people have formed opinions from what they think is “inside information” from “those sites who shall not be named”. In the Watts case 99% of the rumors turned out to be completely untrue. Maybe this case will be the same or maybe not. Maybe some of the gossip and rumors will end up being true. We don’t know yet. We don’t have a lot of details and the media in this case has been the worst I’ve ever seen. They get almost everything wrong. I’m hesitant to believe anything even MSM has to say about this case. It’s bizarre.

And I am speaking of this case in general, not just on this board.

I hope we can all agree that PF's crime, if the charges against him are true, pales in comparison to CW's crime. I hope there's never another Watts case.

 

[Bill Carson]

Agreed that there's no point in looking for a rational motive in the case of PF.
Primordial slime just oozes. It doesn't need or have a reason.

Largely agree with the rest of your post also, with this proviso: there are some perps who do not commit commit crimes in the heat of passion, they do so with cold and calculated precision. Many violent crimes are based on the criminal's practical self-interests, for example, financial gain, vs. emotion. So there is a method to their madness. It's just evil method.

I don't disagree at all. Some don't seem to have emotions.

Edited to add: I was really working through my own thoughts about how the brain works with this post. I hope you don't mind that I sort of did it at your expense. I enjoy these mental exercises.

 

[Harmony 2]

Please move on from the name coincidence discussion. Also, remember to use initials for minors.

 

[Beagle]

Not sure if this is ok so pls delete if not.

How does PF's mum factor into all this?

Did she possibly want the child herself and hence he organised that to happen in some weird line of thinking?

Also somewhere there was some suggestion that he had killed before... if so where is this info from and who do they think it might have been and for what reason?

JMO

 

[NoeticSoul]

OT AMBER Alert (missing children) for Colorado

"NORTHGLENN, Colo. — Authorities issued an Amber Alert Friday night for two missing Longmont girls who police say may be with a violent man who possess weapons."

Amber Alert issued for missing Northglenn girls

 

[Bill Carson]

Agreed that there's no point in looking for a rational motive in the case of PF.
Primordial slime just oozes. It doesn't need or have a reason.

Largely agree with the rest of your post also, with this proviso: there are some perps who do not commit crimes in the heat of passion, they do so with cold and calculated precision. Many violent crimes are based on the criminal's practical self-interests, for example, financial gain, vs. emotion. So there is a method to their madness. It's just evil method.

I've got Daniel Kahneman's Thinking, Fast and Slow on audiobook, and it describes some of the theories about the two ways of thinking. From the summary--

Two systems drive the way we think and make choices, Kahneman explains: System One is fast, intuitive, and emotional; System Two is slower, more deliberative, and more logical. Examining how both systems function within the mind, Kahneman exposes the extraordinary capabilities as well as the biases of fast thinking and the pervasive influence of intuitive impressions on our thoughts and our choices. Engaging the reader in a lively conversation about how we think, he shows where we can trust our intuitions and how we can tap into the benefits of slow thinking, contrasting the two-system view of the mind with the standard model of the rational economic agent.
​

Unfortunately, the audiobook is both long and dry, and I didn't finish it. I need to go back and listen to it again.

I find that I forget about how we all make decisions using emotion, and I tend to focus too much on logic and reason. Which tends to drive me nuts because I can't make sense of it. And I really prefer to think that things happen for explainable reasons and not just because Evil.

Cases like this one are a challenge.

 

[tmar]

Will they air this footage in a three part series?

Yep.
And when ANOTHER footage is to be aired, getting our hopes up, it will not occur.

 

[riolove77]

Before I ask this, I want to say I think PF is exactly where he belongs. IMO. I wish he had company

Now, if you were the DA on this case, and KK told you that PF solicited her to commit murder once or even three times, would you believe her without corroborating that evidence? Just take her at her word that PF ask her?

No of course not. And I wouldn’t have charged him with solicitation based on that alone either. It’s just not how it works.

 

[Gardener1850]

OT AMBER Alert (missing children) for Colorado

"NORTHGLENN, Colo. — Authorities issued an Amber Alert Friday night for two missing Longmont girls who police say may be with a violent man who possess weapons."

Amber Alert issued for missing Northglenn girls

Scary! Here's their thread: CO - AMBER ALERT, ETERNITY DURAN, 11, Northglenn, 18 Jan, 2019

 

[GordianKnot]

I don't disagree at all. Some don't seem to have emotions.

Edited to add: I was really working through my own thoughts about how the brain works with this post. I hope you don't mind that I sort of did it at your expense. I enjoy these mental exercises.

I don't mind at all, as I didn't take it that way.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."