CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #33 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

I don't mean to be picky, but I believe Donthe Lucas was arrested just days after the disappearance, on other felony charges. He was still in jail on those charges when they charged him with murder, six months later. He has spent 5 1/2 years in jail so far, and has the better part of another year before trial delivers a verdict. IMO

So, Dave, help me understand: you are saying that Donthe Lucas was quickly arrested and has been in jail for >5 years, with trial still pending? That's great news as it actually really serves to bolster the point that PF's quick arrest may result in him actually spending years in the clink simply awaiting trial. Then, after trial and conviction, he'll almost certainly be sentenced to life, so the end result is he's never going to draw another free breath as long as he lives. That's a great thought! JMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

It is my opinion that KK isn't smart enough to put that together in her mind. She probably just sees the camera as a preventative device for robbery of sonic etc., which she would never do, so she doesn't really worry about it. She probably did not ponder the implications of using a cc at sonic, placing her right near a crime scene... if that is actually what happened. I am confused about the whole sonic thing.

That, and she was probably jonesin' for a cheeseburger and milkshake. Just sayin'.

 

[TheVic]

That, and she was probably jonesin' for a cheeseburger and milkshake. Just sayin'.

Exactly! Thinking with her stomach. Anyone that would tell their BFF about solicitation and then go ahead and participate in any way...is not too sharp.

 

[GordianKnot]

These are completely different cases involving very different circumstances and evidence.

I don’t care what state it is, a “no body murder case” is typically slow moving.

The Schelling case, is indicative of the norm.

This particular case is spectacularly unusual. It appears that this genius left a trail of breadcrumbs right to his door.

Donthe Lucas is in big trouble.

Patrick Frazee appears to be dead to rights.

Good.

BBM; Not just breadcrumbs, MG. Neon, flashing breadcrumbs.
He's toast.
Of the extra crispy variety, served up on a stainless steel platter, if there's any justice.

JMO.

 

[Dave F.]

So, Dave, help me understand: you are saying that Donthe Lucas was quickly arrested and has been in jail for >5 years, with trial still pending? That's great news as it actually really serves to bolster the point that PF's quick arrest may result in him actually spending years in the clink simply awaiting trial. Then, after trial and conviction, he'll almost certainly be sentenced to life, so the end result is he's never going to draw another free breath as long as he lives. That's a great thought! JMO.

Yes and No. As a first time offender with no criminal record, PF is probably looking at the minimum, which is 40 years before parole eligibility. The 40 years started on December 21, when he was arrested, so he would be 72. If convicted of Solicitation, that sentence would begin then. Someone said the maximum is 24 years, and he wouldn't get that with no prior record. Also, the Solicitaion charge sentence would have standard deductions for good time, etc which I'm guessing would amount to about half of the sentence. So, let's say he gets 18 years, gets all the reduction credit that he can, he is out in nine years at the age of 81, then he has a minimum parole time of 5 years (I think); so he's not really a free man until he's 86 or so. IMO

 

[GordianKnot]

Yes and No. As a first time offender with no criminal record, PF is probably looking at the minimum, which is 40 years before parole eligibility. The 40 years started on December 21, when he was arrested, so he would be 72. If convicted of Solicitation, that sentence would begin then. Someone said the maximum is 24 years, and he wouldn't get that with no prior record. Also, the Solicitaion charge sentence would have standard deductions for good time, etc which I'm guessing would amount to about half of the sentence. So, let's say he gets 18 years, gets all the reduction credit that he can, he is out in nine years at the age of 81, then he has a minimum parole time of 5 years (I think); so he's not really a free man until he's 86 or so. IMO

Thanks for your reply, Dave! So, you're saying PF will be in prison until he's at least 86 if convicted. From doing a little cursory research online, it looks like average life expectancy for a U.S. Male in Colorado is 78ish, so if laws of averages hold, he'll die in prison. Good to hear, and to know. Thanks again for taking the time to help me out with that info.

All of the above: JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes and No. As a first time offender with no criminal record, PF is probably looking at the minimum, which is 40 years before parole eligibility. The 40 years started on December 21, when he was arrested, so he would be 72. If convicted of Solicitation, that sentence would begin then. Someone said the maximum is 24 years, and he wouldn't get that with no prior record. Also, the Solicitaion charge sentence would have standard deductions for good time, etc which I'm guessing would amount to about half of the sentence. So, let's say he gets 18 years, gets all the reduction credit that he can, he is out in nine years at the age of 81, then he has a minimum parole time of 5 years (I think); so he's not really a free man until he's 86 or so. IMO

He’s charged with first degree murder.

The punishment for first degree murder, is life without the possibility of parole.

If convicted, he’s not leaving prison in a wheelchair, he’s leaving prison in a coffin.

 

[GordianKnot]

He’s charged with first degree murder. The punishment for first degree murder, is life without the possibility of parole.

Oh. Well, now I'm confused. So, MG, if I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying life without the possibility of parole would be the sentence, so it would not be the case that PF could get out of prison at 86 if he lives past the average life expectancy of 78?

 

[MassGuy]

Oh. Well, now I'm confused. So, MG, if I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying life without the possibility of parole would be the sentence, so it would not be the case that PF could get out of prison at 86 if he lives past the average life expectancy of 78?

Ha! Only if he’s convinced of second degree murder, which probably ain’t gonna happen.

Either way, he’s not going to be riding a horse again. It’s just a shame that he won’t be riding the lightning.

 

[GordianKnot]

He’s charged with first degree murder.

The punishment for first degree murder, is life without the possibility of parole.

If convicted, he’s not leaving prison in a wheelchair, he’s leaving prison in a coffin.

Well, to be fair, either way, he'll be getting wheeled out, sounds like.
So, there's that.

 

[GordianKnot]

It is very quiet on the Idaho front.

 

[Hatch]

Well, now you've got me wondering: is there such a thing as a 3-legged tire iron?

Because I actually prefer the visual of clobbering PF with a proverbial tire iron vs. a rickety stool.

JMO.

Don't know about 3 legged but there is a four legged tire tool, think it is called a crossed lug wrench.

 

[GordianKnot]

*Reminder: Feb. 19th is the probable cause hearing.

 

[k-mac]

You don't get blocked in, in this drive thru! There is one black security camera and one white one, right in top of each other. I was astounded. Flabbergasted. She HAD to know she was being recorded. I don't know how you could possibly miss them. Unless she went to one of the slots and had a car hop come to her????

I don't know that everybody thinks about these things.
I know I dont!!!
we had a teenage girl break and enter our home and steal something, she later admitted to police she had not noticed the extremely obvious cameras we have at the front of the house.
its hard to think of everything when your being felonious I guess. keeping your cool and being normal would be all consuming imo. the deeper the doodoo the harder to keep it together and think of stuff.
at this point she might have been consumed with what roads to take and getting seen on motorways and stuff and just for a sec forgot about restaurants, I bet she remembered later and likely all the blood drained from her face.....

 

[scmom]

Trying hard to stay out of the abyss.

 

[Dave F.]

So, we are thinking in KB case that LE found some kind of biological evidence, something that would prove she could not possibly have survived what ever created that evidence, and that’s what brought about arrest and murder charge. It couldn’t have been a large amount of blood correct? Because they had already been in her home and they had not seen that is that correct? Or am I making this up as I go along?

I believe that it's highly unlikely that large pools of blood, or anything like that were found. The hardwood flooring and textured sheetrock walls would be difficult to clean so well that neither CB or the police spotted anything at all. I also believe that the reason the second search was conducted at night was because Luminol works better in the dark, especially for locating minute splatters. However, Prosecutor May's Assistant DA explained in a news conference that the reason they dropped objection to the "Order Preservation of Physical Evidence" was that the minute pieces of evidence that they thought they were going to use had proved not to be evidence after all, and that although they did reserve the right to bring the matter up again, they didn't anticipate having any evidence in the future that might be small enough to be destroyed in testing.
Let's speculate that they found nothing at all in forensic matter worth introducing in court. They can still proceed, if they other evidence that is strong.
CSI style forensics has solved many a murder case, but there are still people around who remember when "Forensics" meant blowing charcoal dust all over everythning, making a bunch of gooey impressions, and shipping them off to the FBI lab in Virginia for fingerprint matching. Somehow, prosecutors found ways to convict most of the guilty parties. It certainly will be interesting when this case is finally laid out. IMO

 

[Dave F.]

It is very quiet on the Idaho front.

The Twin Falls newspaper's website has an interesting editorial. At the link, you have to scroll down to the headline "Jeers". It's last line is:
"We’re all curious, but you don’t know what you don’t know, and sometimes the best thing is to wait and see rather than to add to the confusion."
Cheers and Jeers: To doing good in the community, spreading rumors and a graceful exit

 

[jewelsmac]

I believe that it's highly unlikely that large pools of blood, or anything like that were found. The hardwood flooring and textured sheetrock walls would be difficult to clean so well that neither CB or the police spotted anything at all. I also believe that the reason the second search was conducted at night was because Luminol works better in the dark, especially for locating minute splatters. However, Prosecutor May's Assistant DA explained in a news conference that the reason they dropped objection to the "Order Preservation of Physical Evidence" was that the minute pieces of evidence that they thought they were going to use had proved not to be evidence after all, and that although they did reserve the right to bring the matter up again, they didn't anticipate having any evidence in the future that might be small enough to be destroyed in testing.
Let's speculate that they found nothing at all in forensic matter worth introducing in court. They can still proceed, if they other evidence that is strong.
CSI style forensics has solved many a murder case, but there are still people around who remember when "Forensics" meant blowing charcoal dust all over everythning, making a bunch of gooey impressions, and shipping them off to the FBI lab in Virginia for fingerprint matching. Somehow, prosecutors found ways to convict most of the guilty parties. It certainly will be interesting when this case is finally laid out. IMO

what evidence do you believe led to LE's belief that she is dead?

 

[GordianKnot]

I believe that it's highly unlikely that large pools of blood, or anything like that were found. The hardwood flooring and textured sheetrock walls would be difficult to clean so well that neither CB or the police spotted anything at all. I also believe that the reason the second search was conducted at night was because Luminol works better in the dark, especially for locating minute splatters. However, Prosecutor May's Assistant DA explained in a news conference that the reason they dropped objection to the "Order Preservation of Physical Evidence" was that the minute pieces of evidence that they thought they were going to use had proved not to be evidence after all, and that although they did reserve the right to bring the matter up again, they didn't anticipate having any evidence in the future that might be small enough to be destroyed in testing.
Let's speculate that they found nothing at all in forensic matter worth introducing in court. They can still proceed, if they other evidence that is strong.
CSI style forensics has solved many a murder case, but there are still people around who remember when "Forensics" meant blowing charcoal dust all over everythning, making a bunch of gooey impressions, and shipping them off to the FBI lab in Virginia for fingerprint matching. Somehow, prosecutors found ways to convict most of the guilty parties. It certainly will be interesting when this case is finally laid out. IMO

BBM: Hey, Dave, bear with me, sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake, but if I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that we should speculate that they found no forensics because they said they didn't need to do the testing on small sized samples? Couldn't it be the case that when they went in with Luminol at night to KB's the walls/floors/ceilings all lit up with evidence that PF thought he concealed?

Also, I'm wondering if they could still do the charcoal blowing stuff there even though it's an antiquated procedure. Sometimes there's no substitute for good, old-fashioned police work!
JMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

The Twin Falls newspaper's website has an interesting editorial. At the link, you have to scroll down to the headline "Jeers". It's last line is:
"We’re all curious, but you don’t know what you don’t know, and sometimes the best thing is to wait and see rather than to add to the confusion."
Cheers and Jeers: To doing good in the community, spreading rumors and a graceful exit

Good find, thank you! I've been keeping an eye on Twin Falls, ID's arrest records. No joy yet.