CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #35 *ARREST*

[gitana1]

Homolka was offered a plea deal. Not sure how that is any different than offering plea deals in the U.S. in a case involving murder. A plea deal is an incentive to lie.

JMO

She is a serial killer who was sentenced to only 12 years and who had all probation conditions/restrictions released after a very short time.

We've not had a plea deal like that in this country. That case cannot be compared to the American legal system. We are starting to veer into illogical territory, IMO, in an effort to bash a system that is trying to ensure that a stone cold murderer receives justice.

Sometimes it seems there is more anger toward and more of a desire for punishment of KK than PF.

Let's not forget him.


Clayton Sandell

 

[gitana1]

Is there a possibility to go from tampering to murder?

What do you mean?

 

[InvSmith]

It seems like not having a properly lined up set of ducks is what led to Casey Anthony walking. Granted, with what they had, it always looked like Florida over charged without any lesser options. Which doomed them.

In looking back over articles today, it was clear that there was evidence of homicide at KB's home indicated by Teller County. When you have documentation of direct solicitations for hire with direct witnesses that were hires or potential hires even without physical evidence you have a case. It is rare you have three solicitations. Plus, one solicited person that carries the victim's phone. He better plea for life.

 

[heartgoesout]

Will documents be unsealed on Friday?

 

[tmar]

How many opportunities did she pass up before KB death that would have saved her life. How many opportunities to seek protection and justice did she pass up during her time in Colorado and her hundreds of miles trip back to Idaho; past local police departments, county police departments, state police departments?

In the end, she deserves the same consideration and compassion she gave to KB. I hope the prosecutors find a way to give that to her. There was/is no credible excuse.

If KK does not receive sufficient/any prison time for her actions due to proceedings, at this stage, surely, her life from now on will be a night mare.
Karma will follow her throughout her pitiful existence.
There have been discussions regarding civil cases against KK, and this will be the icing on the cake.
Just as she thinks, she has outsmarted all, she will be continually hammered.
Any money she has earned will dwindle away, leaving her penniless.
Her nursing career has gone down the drain.
I certainly hope so.
MOO.

 

[SandyQLS]

My concern is that some of the jury are going to be just as sickened as you are. I'm afraid PF's defense will be to claim the murder was KK's idea and now she's got a very sweet deal to testify against him. All it takes is one on the jury to sympathize with PF.

JMO

THIS^^^ KKL is the worst sort of witness. Of 12 jurors, 1 woman and 1 man will buy her poor afraid little woman act, 2 will hate her, and the other 8 will be suspicious, cynical or objective. The defense attorneys will chew her up. KKL is the definition of reasonable doubt on the solicitations 9/1 - 11/1 and then choosing to go to CO to tamper with evidence in the murder of her love rival, involving a man she calls her BF while simultaneously claiming she is afraid of him.

The defense will put KKL and also KB on trial. It's going to be ugly.

 

[Aydrianna523]

When they searched his house that final time, they appeared to know exactly what they were looking for.

At that point, I said on here: “Someone is talking.”

I think it was KK, and I think she told them these things in an effort to secure a deal.

She may have already played her biggest role. My point is that her contribution may not be solely based on testimony.

I don’t think it is.

Oh, makes sense.

 

[thesaint]

The robbery thing clangs off the mind's ear in this case: why would her fiance and father of her child be involved in a violent robbery of KB? Unless it's an en passant robbery charge targeted toward KK taking KB's cell phone to give them further leverage over KK.

Perps and accomplices take cell phones all the time in murder cases.
But I don't recall DA's highlighting robbery as the primary motive in those cases, as seems to be the alternative theory here. "he alone or with other people killed her during a robbery " reads like the primary motive was robbery and KB ended up getting killed during the robbery.

DA's do tack on laundry list charges, illegal handling of a corpse, minor theft charges if the perp took the victim's money/possessions etc. But this reads like LE has an alternative theory centered around a robbery?

 

[ajaylee]

Re: PF pleading guilty.

I don't know if it's possible in Colorado, but there is a nolo contendere plea.

It means you refuse to admit guilt, but you recognize that the judge/jury are very likely to convict you. If you plead nolo contendere, I believe it's similar to pleading guilty, in that you go directly to sentencing.

 

[InvSmith]

What do you mean?

In the U.S. we have multiple tampering cases with products that are homicide cases, btw. The most famous one Tylenol capsule remains unsolved. I have worked glass in babyfood that was attempted homicide than we prosecuted with the state instead of federal under the Anti-Tampering Act. It all depends on the evidence and objectives of what can be achieved legally and investigally.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm not in an attorney, but IMO all good attorneys need to be creative at times. It's their job to represent their clients to the best of their ability. They typically want to win their cases and sometimes they need to be creative to win. jmo

I agree. I do not see PF taking a plea deal, I see him going to trial. Especially when LE has already presented a theory that PF may not have acted alone. PF is a good 'ol local boy. KK is from Idaho. Evidently they need her testimony and that concerns me because she is receiving an incentive to lie.

JMO

 

[srg]

I really just needed to take a break for the day. I'm back. I'm used to the vitriol, honestly. People in this country do not like law enforcement and unfortunately DAs fall into that category.

There are bad/lazy/corrupt people in every profession. We don't stop going to church because some priests molest children, we don't stop sending our kids to school because some teachers rape their students. It's unreal to assume that the DA here is just looking for the fast, cheapest, least amount of work necessary way to get this case taken care of.

He said at the press conference in December that this case wouldn't be tried in the media, and it hasn't. For that alone I have a ton of respect. To assume that just because we don't know certain details surrounding this plea deal (or any other aspect of the case) means he's taking the easy way out is ridiculous.

It is very much possible that the only ILLEGAL (not immoral) thing that KK did was transporting the phone. If so, and she could have faced an accessory after the fact charge had she refused to cooperate, but is now going to get a tampering charge in exchange for full cooperation, that is fantastic. Imagine she refused to talk and they had nothing to stick her with except for the accessory charge. She'd go to prison for 2-6 years and that would be that. But she wouldn't testify against PF, and then what? If she is the nail in his coffin, then give her the tampering charge.

I know we all despise her because she knew. She's disgusting and immoral. Frankly, I'd love to give her a piece of my mind. BUT, the DA cannot charge her for knowing. It's simply not a crime. And if all she really did do was transport the phone, then I think it's a sweet deal for the DA frankly. Have some faith, until there's reason not to.

Well said. Thank you!

 

[gitana1]

It seems like not having a properly lined up set of ducks is what led to Casey Anthony walking. Granted, with what they had, it always looked like Florida over charged without any lesser options. Which doomed them.

It's really not. I get your point - that that case was super unique and not likely to be repeated here. But they had a great case. And it 100% included various charges AND lesser includeds. It baffles me that people think the jury had no choice but first degree murder.

She was actually charged with: First-degree murder, aggravated manslaughter AND aggravated child abuse. Each one of those has lesser includeds.

She was found not guilty of first degree murder, nor any of the lesser includeds of first degree murder in Florida which are second degree murder, manslaughter or third degree felony murder.

She was not found guilty of aggravated manslaughter.

She was not found guilty of aggravated child abuse nor of the lesser included of aggravated child abuse in Florida, which is child abuse.

So they had seven felony charges to pick from - 1st degree, 2nd degree, aggravated manslaughter, manslaughter, felony third degree murder, aggravated child abuse and child abuse, and did not pick one of them.
https://malagaaunike.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/28440627jury-instructions-casey-anthony-trial.pdf

The only charges they picked were those that would not require a penalty phase. Why?:

Q. What do jurors do on nights and weekends? Can they watch television? Are they guarded by deputies? Can they visit with family?

A. Jurors are always monitored by deputies and cannot venture out alone. When jurors do have free time -- nights and weekends -- they have to stay at their hotel. When they do activities, they travel as a group.

Court spokeswoman Karen Levey said activities are planned for them, though they can choose not to participate. The jurors may watch movies played in a group room, and they also have individual DVD players they can use. All movies are preapproved.

Their families can visit during a specific period on Sundays -- and some have visited already.

Casey Anthony trial questions? We have answers

But that is NOT going to happen in this case. I have not heard of any trial in which the jury has been sequestered under such onerous conditions as that, since that case. (I still remember Judge Perry's face as he scanned down the list of charges and found not guilty to all).

The jury in the case against PF will not be sequestered like that. I will eat my hat.

The anomaly of that case is not going to be repeated here.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Ms. KK has been investigated upside down and inside out. Literally, every inch of her living space, car, and property has been turned inside out. Her family and friends have been interviewed probably as far back as kindergarten. Every electronic device, GPS, camera with her image has been examined as we still have a missing victim. The pressure that has been brought upon her since she was identified as a POI has been at an intensity hard to explain. If she came out of all of this with interfering with a proceeding prior to evidence (for what we know today) then that is what she deserves to be charged with per the law.

For all we know she might not have been in Colorado on Thanksgiving. She could have decided to go the next day (after she and PF had their own family's Thanksgivings). Not trying to help her out, but maybe that's why LE gave her such a low charge...
?

 

[ajaylee]

The robbery thing clangs off the mind's ear in this case: why would her fiance and father of her child be involved in a violent robbery of KB? Unless it's an en passant robbery charge targeted toward KK taking KB's cell phone to give them further leverage over KK.

Perps and accomplices take cell phones all the time in murder cases.
But I don't recall DA's highlighting robbery as the primary motive in those cases, as seems to be the alternative theory here. "he alone or with other people killed her during a robbery " reads like the primary motive was robbery and KB ended up getting killed during the robbery.

DA's do tack on laundry list charges, illegal handling of a corpse, minor theft charges if the perp took the victim's money/possessions etc. But this reads like LE has an alternative theory centered around a robbery?

That's what it sounded like to me - that PF had a plan to kill KB and stage the scene to make it look like a robbery.

Another long shot possibility: PF asked KK to help him kill KB. She was reluctant to particpate in the actual murder but was willing to help in the cover-up. Unbeknownst to her, he set her up - jealous lover killing the mother of his child.

He finds a reason for her to come to Colorado during Thanksgiving. That always bothered me - she's got two younger kids and she seems to be very much a family person - involved in her kids' school activities, for example. This doesn't sound to me like someone who would leave her kids and family for a solo road trip over Thanksgiving. He suggests she swing by Sonic and pick up some food for them - knowing she's likely to be captured on some camera. Makes up an excuse for her to get rid of the phone 30 minutes from her home in Idaho.

I'd really like to know what SF thought of KK and if PF took her out to the ranchette to see SF when she was in Colorado over Thanksgiving weekend.

 

[gitana1]

In the U.S. we have multiple tampering cases with products that are homicide cases, btw. The most famous one Tylenol capsule remains unsolved. I have worked glass in babyfood that was attempted homicide than we prosecuted with the state instead of federal under the Anti-Tampering Act. It all depends on the evidence and objectives of what can be achieved legally and investigally.

Oh!!!!! Is that what was meant? In that case, no. Those are two different things. The charges is tampering with evidence. Not tampering with a product in order to kill someone.

 

[MassGuy]

For all we know she might not have been in Colorado on Thanksgiving. She could have decided to go the next day (after she and PF had their own family's Thanksgivings). Not trying to help her out, but maybe that's why LE gave her such a low charge...
?

Absolutely possible.

If they thought she was involved in the murder itself, she would not be getting off this light.

If there is strong evidence that she was not in Colorado during the commission of the murder, then PF is in even more trouble than we thought.

He can’t point at her if she was hundreds of miles away.

This could be the final nail in his coffin.

 

[InvSmith]

JMO
Looking back at the actual charges against PF, and combined with this latest news has me totally rethinking just how much more involved KK may have been.

Lets take a quick look at the one of the murder charges on PF which has him possibly committing the murder along with someone else being present with him.

"Prosecutors filed two murder charges because they have different theories. One is that he acted alone to kill Berreth, the other, he alone or with other people killed her during a robbery on November 22nd."

Patrick Frazee, accused of killing missing fiancee Kelsey Berreth, charged with 5 felony counts

I want to have faith in LE here that they are doing the right thing with KK but my mind is now racing at all the possible scenarios. Not the least of which is that its possible she was with PF that day. Even if the minimum that KK transferred that phone across state lines, sent the texts, and destroyed the phone, then the cushy plea deal that we are learning about seems way too lenient to me.

It doesnt make much sense to me unless there was some outside pressure so I have to wonder. Is it possible that the Twin Falls, Idaho LE may have had some influence on the Colorado LE to minimize her charges as they worked with the Teller County investigators.
Like could there have been discussions that may have went like this:
"We are a small town here in Twin Falls, Idaho and everyone knows everyone and if we hang one of our Rodeo Queens it will not only destroy her but destroy our whole town's reputation for years to come. Can you please keep that in mind as you think about what charges you are going to put on her?"

Is that too far out in left field that internal LE discussions may have encompassed discussions like that?

The local departments would have limited input. KK's attorney would have more input. The DA's Office would have been the central controlling voice. Most law enforcement officials are extremely limited by laws and written procedures.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Absolutely possible.

If they thought she was involved in the murder itself, she would not be getting off this light.

If there is strong evidence that she was not in Colorado during the commission of the murder, then PF is in even more trouble than we thought.

He can’t point at her if she was hundreds of miles away.

This could be the final nail in his coffin.

bbm That would be the only thing that would make her "deal" acceptable! moo

 

[MyBelle]

THIS^^^ KKL is the worst sort of witness. Of 12 jurors, 1 woman and 1 man will buy her poor afraid little woman act, 2 will hate her, and the other 8 will be suspicious, cynical or objective. The defense attorneys will chew her up. KKL is the definition of reasonable doubt on the solicitations 9/1 - 11/1 and then choosing to go to CO to tamper with evidence in the murder of her love rival, involving a man she calls her BF while simultaneously claiming she is afraid of him.

The defense will put KKL and also KB on trial. It's going to be ugly.

BBM. I totally agree with you. It's going to be difficult, especially if they don't find KB's remains.

JMO