CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[Lhughessk]

I disagree with the bolded portion above.

Search for missing Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth expands

Search for missing Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth expands

"Authorities in Colorado are asking for help from the public as they search for Kelsey Berreth, a 29-year-old mother who was last seen grocery shopping on Thanksgiving near her home in Woodland Park. Investigators have little information, but say they are doing everything they can to bring her back home to her family. NBC’s Joe Fryer reports for TODAY.Dec. 11, 2018"

I don’t know if you read or watched past that headline, but it says that as of Dec. 11, investigators had little information. The expanded part is of course that their investigation had moved into ID, but that wasn’t so much a search for KB as it was a search for a phone.

In terms of a search for KB, there were no organized PUBLIC searches where volunteers fan out and search a grid. That was what we were talking about earlier. We can’t fault PF’s family for not taking part in a non-existent search.

 

[Lhughessk]

This man didn’t report Kelsey missing.

This guy never made any effort whatsoever, to get the word out.

There is no way in hell that he was going to appear at that press conference, even if they gave him a week’s notice.

His actions were nothing if not consistent.

As to law enforcement wanting him there, I absolutely believe they did.

There have been countless cases where LE has invited people they suspect of committing crimes, to appear in front of the media.

It is more often a good thing, than a bad one.

Once again, the Watts case provides a great example of this.

The post to which I was replying, the context was not about PF. It was about his family and why they didn’t go to the PC.

 

[Lhughessk]

If a man murders your daughter and the mother of his child, his relatives certainly aren't guilty of the crime but chances are good that something is way off with the family.

I disagree strongly with this sentiment. People don’t become murderers because of their family. They do it because of choices made from their own free will. JMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

My bet is that the FBI asked both the RR's and the TV station to button it. IMO

Maybe both KK's attorney and DA/FBI. I'm sure KK was still hammering out her plea agreement at the time those interviews aired. As revealed in the plea hearing Friday, one of her stipulations going forward is not being allowed to talk to the media.

I felt the "R's" were trying to defend KK's actions in those interviews and I imagine Teller County wasn't pleased one bit. That circus side show was awkward, unprofessional and just all around hinky IMHO. I genuinely wonder if they're regretting them today?

 

[Lhughessk]

I wouldn't think she found out when everyone else did. She had the baby in her care. Wouldn't she expect the mother to call and check in at some point? When I babysit my grandbaby, my DIL texts and calls and facetimes us, every couple of hours. She would never go days and days with no word.

There were organized searches. I posted about them a few posts ago.

If my DIL was missing, the first call I'd make, after one to my son, would be to her parents.

We don’t know what PF told his mom. He could have told her, “I talked to KB today. She called and asked how the baby was.” I’m not sure why you would think the mother of a baby would call her mother in law instead of her fiancé. It’s more likely that was the line of communication even when things were going well.

The guy tried to convince her work that she was gone on a trip for a week. So of course he would tell his mother the same thing.

 

[susiQ]

We don’t know what PF told his mom. He could have told her, “I talked to KB today. She called and asked how the baby was.” I’m not sure why you would think the mother of a baby would call her mother in law instead of her fiancé. It’s more likely that was the line of communication even when things were going well.

The guy tried to convince her work that she was gone on a trip for a week. So of course he would tell his mother the same thing.

Alright, I'll give you that. But what will SF do now that KK has pleaded guilty and pointed the finger directly at her son? IMHO she should drop her fight to have custody of baby K and give the B's some peace. Have they not suffered enough??

 

[MassGuy]

I disagree strongly with this sentiment. People don’t become murderers because of their family. They do it because of choices made from their own free will. JMO.

People are ultimately responsible for their actions, I absolutely agree with that sentiment.

That being said, common factors seem to be in play regarding the family life of certain types of killers.

I’m not making that link here, as we don’t have enough evidence to do that.

In serial killers for example, abusive childhoods are common.

“Family annihilators” tend to have certain factors in their background as well. That’s how we were able to predict what Chris Watts’ parents would be like, before we even met them.

It doesn’t excuse their crimes, but it helps to explain how they became the way they are.

 

[katydid23]

We don’t know what PF told his mom. He could have told her, “I talked to KB today. She called and asked how the baby was.” I’m not sure why you would think the mother of a baby would call her mother in law instead of her fiancé. It’s more likely that was the line of communication even when things were going well.

The guy tried to convince her work that she was gone on a trip for a week. So of course he would tell his mother the same thing.

I would call the person who was physically watching my baby. I would want to say 'hi' to my baby and maybe FaceTime her. If that was the MIL< then that's who I'd call.

Maybe he did lie to his mother and say all that. But if so, then Mom knew that he was lying to her soon after she was reported missing, and she knows that now. And I think she was still part of the 'bash KB' online crew.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I hadn't seen this video before. HLN discussing KKL's role, how the plea deal was worked out and the consequences she faces. It's pretty good.

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[katydid23]

I disagree strongly with this sentiment. People don’t become murderers because of their family. They do it because of choices made from their own free will. JMO.

I think it is often a combination of 'nature' and 'nurture.'

 

[ajaylee]

Alright, I'll give you that. But what will SF do now that KK has pleaded guilty and pointed the finger directly at her son? IMHO she should drop her fight to have custody of baby K and give the B's some peace. Have they not suffered enough??

At this point, we don't know what SF thinks - or thought. She may be like CW's parents - she can not believe it. It's a terrible mistake or it's somehow KB's fault.

At first, as Llughessk noted above, there was no reason for her to ask questions. If PF came home with Baby K on Thanksgiving Day and told SF that KB had taken off for the rest of the week and all of the following week, SF had no reason (that we know of) to doubt him.

I, too, suspect that SF and KB were never close. KB's mother mentioned that PF had a poor year financially and that interfered with them getting their own place. I don't suppose SF could see any good reason for PF and KB to go get their own place when PF had been perfectly happy on the ranch for twenty years.

I suspect the first SF knew of anything was when the police came calling. Even then, we know of no reason why she would think her son was the kind of guy who would do something like this. I'm speculating, but it seems to me that in order for her to try to keep believing in his innocence, she's got to convince herself someone else is to blame.

Or she knows more than we do and, with or without PF confirming it for her, she knows he did it. She'll still show up until the bitter end, hoping against hope for a miracle, I guess.

 

[katydid23]

I don’t know if you read or watched past that headline, but it says that as of Dec. 11, investigators had little information. The expanded part is of course that their investigation had moved into ID, but that wasn’t so much a search for KB as it was a search for a phone.

In terms of a search for KB, there were no organized PUBLIC searches where volunteers fan out and search a grid. That was what we were talking about earlier. We can’t fault PF’s family for not taking part in a non-existent search.

Here is the first sentence of that article:

Authorities in Colorado are asking for help from the public as they search for Kelsey Berreth, ...


And even if there were very few searches, they could have attended pressers or made their own statements, asking for people to look out for her, or asking for her to return home. If the MIL knew nothing other than she was missing, then why didnt she offer help and support?

 

[MyBelle]

I disagree strongly with this sentiment. People don’t become murderers because of their family. They do it because of choices made from their own free will. JMO.

There is plenty of research that disagrees with you. A child who grows up in family dysfunction is more likely repeat the cycle as an adult and it can be difficult to break the cycle. Much research has been conducted into men who are in the control of their mother well into adulthood. It didn't surprise me that CW was in the presence of his mother when arrested.

JMO

Narcissistic Men and Their Mothers

 

[MassGuy]

I hadn't seen this video before. HLN discussing KKL's role, how the plea deal was worked out and the consequences she faces. It's pretty good.

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Wow, that’s excellent.

He seems to think that PF is in big trouble, something I definitely agree with.

The difference is, he actually knows what he’s talking about.

It ain’t just her word against his.

 

[susiQ]

At this point, we don't know what SF thinks - or thought. She may be like CW's parents - she can not believe it. It's a terrible mistake or it's somehow KB's fault.

At first, as Llughessk noted above, there was no reason for her to ask questions. If PF came home with Baby K on Thanksgiving Day and told SF that KB had taken off for the rest of the week and all of the following week, SF had no reason (that we know of) to doubt him.

I, too, suspect that SF and KB were never close. KB's mother mentioned that PF had a poor year financially and that interfered with them getting their own place. I don't suppose SF could see any good reason for PF and KB to go get their own place when PF had been perfectly happy on the ranch for twenty years.

I suspect the first SF knew of anything was when the police came calling. Even then, we know of no reason why she would think her son was the kind of guy who would do something like this. I'm speculating, but it seems to me that in order for her to try to keep believing in his innocence, she's got to convince herself someone else is to blame.

Or she knows more than we do and, with or without PF confirming it for her, she knows he did it. She'll still show up until the bitter end, hoping against hope for a miracle, I guess.

She can support her son until the cows come home, for as much as I care. She loves him, I'm certain. My problem is with her fighting the B's for custody of baby K. Leave them alone. Let them find some solace in having the daughter of their murdered daughter without having to "fight" for her. Have some human decency. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Gardenista]

Not sure if this has been posted

Friend speaks out in support of Idaho nurse linked to Kelsey Berreth case

 

[MemPat]

People are ultimately responsible for their actions, I absolutely agree with that sentiment.

That being said, common factors seem to be in play regarding the family life of certain types of killers.

I’m not making that link here, as we don’t have enough evidence to do that.

In serial killers for example, abusive childhoods are common.

“Family annihilators” tend to have certain factors in their background as well. That’s how we were able to predict what Chris Watts’ parents would be like, before we even met them.

It doesn’t excuse their crimes, but it helps to explain how they became the way they are.

And what do we know of PF's father? Have I missed reading about him here? Sometimes abandonment by a parent produces bad consequences down the road, not that the child isn't accountable for bad acts.

 

[Artis]

Allow LE to search property, speak up in defences of Kelsey, help search for her, stop coddling PF.
Tell LE what they know. Where PF was, most importantly where was Baby ?
During the time her Mommy was murdered,and the clean up,and cover up happened.
Where was Baby K?

They could have helped find Kelsey. They did nothing. Could have spoken up on behalf of Kelsey when her name,and reputation was being raked through the mud. Yet did nothing.
They did nothing on behalf of Kelsey,or Baby K.
Nothing. The wagons were circled around PF yet nowhere to found on behalf of Kelsey,and Baby K.
One must ask where was PF while Kelsey was murdered. Where was PF for the clean up?
Why did they not help in the search for Kelsey?
Why was LE forced to get search warrants, every step of the way?

That none of the Frazees showed up for the vigil or the presser doesn't look good, imo. However, regarding the rest of what you've said and giving them some benefit of the doubt...

I don't recall any organized search parties (were there?) and where would anyone have searched considering PF's story (via KB's aunt) was that Kelsey left town for Washington state?

Kelsey's name wasn't dragged through any mud. One guy said she took off regularly and he probably got that from PF. IOW, he may not have known any differently and believed PF.

As soon as it was formally known that Kelsey was missing, Ma F had to know her son would be the number one suspect but that doesn't mean she would believe it! Given that they (Frazees) were also primary caretakers of baby K, along with Kelsey, you can bet they were very worried about what was going to happen with her - like getting taken away by the state. I'm going to assume they are very attached to that little girl and it would make perfect sense, to them, that she remain in their custody because she spent so much time with them already and not with Kelsey's family. I don't see anything weird there.

I don't know what their conversations were with LE. Recall the police chief said PF was cooperating (via his attorney). For all we know, they consented to a search and the cops just thought having a warrant and some element of surprise was best. Dunno.

 

[Trudie]

Not sure if this has been posted

Friend speaks out in support of Idaho nurse linked to Kelsey Berreth case

I was reading and getting ready to post when you did!
Is this the woman that works for the R duo?

 

[InvSmith]

We don’t know what PF told his mom. He could have told her, “I talked to KB today. She called and asked how the baby was.” I’m not sure why you would think the mother of a baby would call her mother in law instead of her fiancé. It’s more likely that was the line of communication even when things were going well.

The guy tried to convince her work that she was gone on a trip for a week. So, of course, he would tell his mother the same thing.

I think it is all for not now with the charges but KB according to police went missing on 11/22. One work week would have been returning to work 11/29 if any of this were true. Even given telling her employer and PF a week , she was missing over a week that she reportedly said. This was what the police was saying. She was passed the timeline and then some. Then in that timeline, her family never heard from her plus she was over the seven days and it was unusual for her. Plus, she did not go to her Grandmother's and her two cars were there, on and on.