CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[Deleted member 718]

Agreed. IMO, KB was in a more stable situation as far as her income/finances than PF.
KB purchased the townhome. PF stayed at the ranchette. He did not contribute toward the purchase of the townhome.

New homes incur added expenses. KB purchased the home prior to September.
IMO, if KB had started bringing up issues r/t lack of consistent, meaningful financial support for Baby K's needs and/or if KB broached the subject of seeking formal child support and/or child custody arrangements, this would have absolutely enraged PF.

PF is not someone who would adopt a "What's mine is yours attitude" r/t anything, but especially not his money or his personal possessions.

IMO, some type of monetary factors + child custody + PF being a total PF = motive.

JMO.

*Edited to correct initials.

I agree. I think money is the motive. I think he owed her money and outside of selling his herd, he had no way to pay her back.
Kelsey gone=problem gone. His herd is safe.

 

[InvSmith]

Twins Falls, ID Magic Valley Stampede Aug. 29 - Sept. 4 2018
Twin Falls County Fair and Magic Valley Stampede - Filer, ID - Aug 29, 2018
ed:date

Well, if that isn't darn good sleuth power. We do not have these in SC so I tuned you guys out threads ago when discussing prices and connections. Suddenly, you have all my attention...

 

[NoeticSoul]

I agree. I think money is the motive. I think he owed her money and outside of selling his herd, he had no way to pay her back.
Kelsey gone=problem gone. His herd is safe.

If true, that backfired, horribly. lol

 

[GordianKnot]

I agree. I think money is the motive. I think he owed her money and outside of selling his herd, he had no way to pay her back.
Kelsey gone=problem gone. His herd is safe.

gliving, what you just said would make a ton of sense! I hadn't actually considered that possibility, but that would explain a lot. Great post and brilliant thought!

 

[MemPat]

Probably because PF ain’t got no friends.

It is odd that we know so little about this guy, this far into the case.

Perhaps people are scared, or maybe he’s got a tight/loyal circle.

Or maybe it's just him and Momma.

 

[susiQ]

I don’t think they happened to be driving at the time law enforcement decided to initiate the arrest, I think law enforcement initiated the arrest because they happened to be driving.

It’s safer for all involved, to arrest people when they are not in their homes. For this reason, law enforcement frequently waits until a suspect is driving.

I don’t think they were fleeing.

I definitely agree an arrest is safest in the open. No doubt. With respect to where they were heading? I'm not inclined to think it was breakfast with what all was going on OR his attorney's office at shorty after 7 a.m. Although, if his attorney says they were headed there, I'll believe him. I'll believe they weren't going to hide baby K away somewhere when I know what was in their vehicles. Both of them. JMO.

 

[acutename]

This is my question but not for Kapua's amazing list.
What is SF feeling about KK at this moment? My 'enquiring mind' would really like to know

something bizarre that has not been addressed... I asked a long time ago where KB was when she was 7-9 mos pregnant and shortly after the birth when she would have needed help. In any normal situation, even if the designated "in-laws" did not like each other, they usually would help out the pregnant woman and the new baby. In this case, it does not seem that the "in-laws" had ever even met each other. there is some kind of disconnect between the families even before the murder IMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

Probably because PF ain’t got no friends.

It is odd that we know so little about this guy, this far into the case.

Perhaps people are scared, or maybe he’s got a tight/loyal circle.

BBM:

To be fair, we have no indication that PF's Woody from Toy Story dolls are talking dolls.

Perhaps they're literally unable to vouch for him.

JMO.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I might have to backtrack on my previous post about his cattle sales. It appears Nov is when he sales his steers. Ranchers sell off steers and keep the cows to grow their herd. (steers are castrated males used for beef, cows are girls that can have more babies)

Nov 2017
Patrick Frazee 10 bwf & blk strs 549 lbs 177.00
Patrick Frazee 26 mix strs 637 lbs 153.50
Patrick Frazee 6 bwf & blk hfrs 477 lbs 146.00
Patrick Frazee 13 bbf hfrs 565 lbs 143.00

total 55 steers.

 

[Artis]

Hmmmm.....
Reposting this as it still hasn't been answered.
Imo it seems important.
On the fence , about mommy dearest being in that river in Egypt. Again MOO.

We don't know what Ma is like. She may be super cool or just the opposite. But, unless, she's a murderer, it's got to be hard to believe your kid would do that. Even the dreadful Cindy Watts seemed surprised (I won't say shocked) at what her son did.

 

[InvSmith]

I agree. I think money is the motive. I think he owed her money and outside of selling his herd, he had no way to pay her back.
Kelsey gone=problem gone. His herd is safe.

I don't think he would kill her for her money. I think he would just take hers. I think he would kill for something she knew that threatened him or someone else he was partners with on a larger scale. Steroids are a big market along with many other drugs. You have to have businesses to front for these.

 

[InvSmith]

Probably because PF ain’t got no friends.

It is odd that we know so little about this guy, this far into the case.

Perhaps people are scared, or maybe he’s got a tight/loyal circle.

Maybe he has questionable friends, imo.

 

[susiQ]

BBM:

To be fair, we have no indication that PF's Woody from Toy Story dolls are talking dolls.

Perhaps they're literally unable to vouch for him.

JMO.

I doubt they'd vouch for him if they could talk

 

[UnicornDragon]

It's not too farfetched to believe KB had a hefty company-paid life insurance policy with the baby as beneficiary. PF would have been the person controlling how that was spent. MOO

I work in life insurance. MANY companies disqualify pilots because it's not worth the risk to insure them. So it's also not farfetched at all that she didn't have life insurance coverage. I won't say she doesn't have it, but I'm not going to assume she does have it either.

 

[Artis]

I've read that when property is removed in a crime scene, LE throws in "robbery" for the additional charge since crimes committed during a robbery are prosecutable (is that a word and did I spell it write ). Don't ask me where I read that. Gosh, I am simply on the edge of my seat waiting to figure out how they think this whole thing played out. That little woman, Kelsey, didn't have a chance up against these two. Every time I see the grocer video, I think to myself, there Kelsey is, with her baby, doing some Thanksgiving shopping....not a clue. And my heart hurts.

All while four people in Idaho knew her murder was being planned and one showed up for it.

 

[Snowsnake]

Ok, I'll go ahead. We know he has a complete dispersal sale in early Jan. CB spoke of PF's financial problems with cattle prices being down so I thought I'd go back to La Junta Livestock Commission official fb page and see if he's sold any cattle since Sept. I found that the week before the murder, PF sold 62 head of cattle.

La Junta Livestock Commission, Inc.
November 16, 2018

Patrick Frazee 39 blk & red strs 588 lbs 147.00
Patrick Frazee 23 blk & red hfrs 548 lbs 140.00

I'm not sure if I'm calculated this right but taking total lbs times price per pounds equals $166992.

I'm wondering if KB invested in his cattle program and if this sale was a contention point. Was she wanting her share?

If someone has time, maybe they could go further back to see his sales history for the past couple of years. To see if this sale was a one-off, or if it's a usual thing for cattle ranchers. It could be typical to sell steers in the fall, or it could be that he was raising money just before the murder.

He received $51,355.60 less commissions and transport to the sale. This is a common time to sell that weight. He obviously held back 85 head probably his breeding stock. Out of the $51,000 it could have cost him upwards of $34,000 for hay and pasture to get the remaining 85 through the winter. Not a whole lot to split with KB if she was invested and made demands for her investment to be returned as they split the sheets. I am under the opinion she was done with him and knew what kind of user he was. This would not be the first time cattle caused a murder in Colorado.

 

[InvSmith]

I might have to backtrack on my previous post about his cattle sales. It appears Nov is when he sales his steers. Ranchers sell off steers and keep the cows to grow their herd. (steers are castrated males used for beef, cows are girls that can have more babies)

Nov 2017
Patrick Frazee 10 bwf & blk strs 549 lbs 177.00
Patrick Frazee 26 mix strs 637 lbs 153.50
Patrick Frazee 6 bwf & blk hfrs 477 lbs 146.00
Patrick Frazee 13 bbf hfrs 565 lbs 143.00

total 55 steers.

I am looking at the math. We know there are three properties in the F family. Looks like some have equipment and extra buildings and vehicles. Then there are competitions and expenses. Then you have the steers, etc plus upkeep. PF did not have full-time consistent employment and his mom is retired on a nursing salary. He had a private attorney and they need one for custody and the wrongful death case. Normal living expenses on top of all this. Where does all the money come from? Even if from a divorce or death of a family member, it is significant. In a case, you do examine the money of the defendant.

 

[acutename]

I agree. This will be the underlying motive. KB’s family is financially well having sold their hay ranch and retired into an upscale area of Idaho. PF on the other hand owns cattle and rents pasture in a severely drought stricken State. Hay is being shipped into Colorado at high prices for those that have kept their cattle. A lot of people started herd liquidation as early as September. This fits into the narrative of KB’s mother saying financial problems got in the way of their marriage. Also fits the time of the first solicitation by PF. PF could have tried to persuade KB to get money from her parents to save his herd and she refused. I am sure she knew who and what he was by then.

maybe she had already loaned him money early in the season and he owed her money?

 

[InvSmith]

He received $51,355.60 less commissions and transport to the sale. This is a common time to sell that weight. He obviously held back 85 head probably his breeding stock. Out of the $51,000 it could have cost him upwards of $34,000 for hay and pasture to get the remaining 85 through the winter. Not a whole lot to split with KB if she was invested and made demands for her investment to be returned as they split the sheets. I am under the opinion she was done with him and knew what kind of user he was. This would not be the first time cattle caused a murder in Colorado.

I don't disagree but I am thinking bigger picture. In most fraud cases, usually business can front for other activities behind the scenes. This may not be the case but it would be considered as a potential cause leading to the death. If not an escalation in violence, then something along these lines.

 

[BingoBongo]

Probably because PF ain’t got no friends.

It is odd that we know so little about this guy, this far into the case.

Perhaps people are scared, or maybe he’s got a tight/loyal circle.

I bet the wagons gathered into a tight circle early on due to his familial LE connection.