CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[Elley Mae]

BBM
Or walk through the woods with a basket of goodies.

Here you have two people involved in setting up an alibi, and they botched it completely; I'm confident that LE was on to him at the very start of the investigation. And if KK had told PF "I'm not touching that cell phone with a 10-foot pole", she could have saved herself a lifetime of misery. If she'd called the police as well, she could have said, "I didn't think he meant it" when questioned about the solicitation, and maybe someone would feel sorry for her. MOO

I think so too, I believe that CB told LE exactly where their relationship was, and imo they were not engaged and happy. CB may have been directed by LE, who to call, what to say.

In the Laura Wallen case LE had her parents sit next to tyler (tessier) after LE told them that he murdered her. They did.
He hung himself the day his trial was to start, thank goodness. Saved taxpayers.

 

[Kapua]

Hard to act like you care when you don’t.

BBM and snipped.

Most spouse killers know that they need to try to act like they care to pull off the crime. I don't think many of them succeed because you are right. PF decided to forego the charade entirely. That was just one of a number of hugely stupid mistakes he made.

 

[MsBetsy]

I never thought they would try a high speed chase, but I sure do think they must have known an arrest was coming, and would have tried to Hide Baby K,and keep her from Kelsey's family before LE arrived.
I could be wrong, but the actions up to that point by one side tell me otherwise.
MOO.

Well, he certainly didn't try to hide her when it was all over the news while LE was investigating. He carried her around everywhere, it seems. Imo

 

[MyBelle]

If she was still living with ex and their children, why or why would she leave them on a holiday? I always wanted to spend all holidays with my children. Would she not want to spend the holiday with them? What would she have told her ex as to why she was was leaving and going to CO? Even if she did not say CO she would have had to give him some explanation as to why she would be gone several days and leaving the children with him....many questions and waiting for answers.

How do we know KK did NOT spend Thanksgiving with her children? Thanksgiving was on Nov. 22. Her charges note the dates Nov. 24-25.

JMO

 

[Kapua]

If she was still living with ex and their children, why or why would she leave them on a holiday? I always wanted to spend all holidays with my children. Would she not want to spend the holiday with them? What would she have told her ex as to why she was was leaving and going to CO? Even if she did not say CO she would have had to give him some explanation as to why she would be gone several days and leaving the children with him....many questions and waiting for answers.

This is an excellent point. But she may have been in ID for Thanksgiving and travelled on the 24th and 25th only. She may even have brought her kids. We don't know.

 

[MsJosie]

- PF was arrested around 8-8:30AM on Friday Dec 21, 2018, at the beginning of a very long Christmas weekend that ran through Tuesday Dec 25.

We have no idea where they were going, out to breakfast, on a trip to see family, last minute Christmas shopping, or fleeing.

You are right but LE and the F Family know exactly where they were going. This probably will come out in trial.

IMO there will be a trial as PF will bring KK into this, he is not going down himself.

IMO there is another one or two people involved and they know exactly what happened even if they were not part of the murder....much like in the Anthony case....people knew what happened to Caylee but LE did not go after them for wha ever reason. I can only hope if there are others LE will change them too. .

We will have to wait and see.

 

[Dave F.]

If she was still living with ex and their children, why or why would she leave them on a holiday? I always wanted to spend all holidays with my children. Would she not want to spend the holiday with them? What would she have told her ex as to why she was was leaving and going to CO? Even if she did not say CO she would have had to give him some explanation as to why she would be gone several days and leaving the children with him....many questions and waiting for answers.

Does anybody know what her kids were doing that weekend, or what state they were in when they were doing what they were doing? Is it an important element in the Class 6 Felony of transporting a phone to remove evidence? IMO

 

[MyBelle]

BBM and snipped.

Most spouse killers know that they need to try to act like they care to pull off the crime. I don't think many of them succeed because you are right. PF decided to forego the charade entirely. That was just one of a number of hugely stupid mistakes he made.

I think PF decided to forego the charade because CW failed at it so miserably. What PF failed to grasp was that his actions--avoiding the press conference and media altogether--spoke loudly. His curt exchange with a reporter about private property was icing on the cake.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Add in, what is PF telling his family. Maybe it's the she ran away song and dance, now CB is here to take Baby K away forever... Baby K knew the F family best due to care and location. Isolating her was likely a form of protection so she's not a media puppet.

With information we have publicly released now, I'm not willing to blame SF. Maybe that changes, but right now, she's as much a victim of PF as not.

I doubt PF told his mother much of anything. At least not the truth. I would not doubt that he told her that Kelsey was a bad mother and that she just took off. It's possible that he bad-mouthed her to his whole family, and others. They probably believed him. Imo

 

[Dave F.]

Now that is something that is 100% correct and a good reminder. LE/DA did not arrest and charge PF with 5 counts relating to KB's murder, especially without a body, unless they showed sufficient cause to a judge.

The 19th's hearing won't reveal everything they know either. Not all witnesses will be there and DA May <love to type that> said it will be a few hours in the PC after KK's hearing Friday.

MOO

Colorado law does not allow for bail on a charge of Murder in the First Degree, until AFTER the second hearing. If the evidence presented on the 19th represents a reasonable likelihood of a conviction, there will still be no bail.
I don't think Vegas betters are going to come forward to establish odds on bail being granted.
IMO

 

[susiQ]

Well they certainly were not helping the investigation in any way.
MOO

I too wondered about where they were going that early in the morning, both of them in two cars and I really don't think it was for breakfast JMO. With respect to LE not listing items they had in their cars, well, LE haven't revealed much of anything this far and we may yet learn "what" if anything they had that would indicate they were going to take baby K somewhere unknown. MOO.

 

[Dave F.]

I think PF decided to forego the charade because CW failed at it so miserably. What PF failed to grasp was that his actions--avoiding the press conference and media altogether--spoke loudly. His curt exchange with a reporter about private property was icing on the cake.

JMO

In my experience, killers never study each other's work. IMO

 

[SandyQLS]

BBM and snipped.

Most spouse killers know that they need to try to act like they care to pull off the crime. I don't think many of them succeed because you are right. PF decided to forego the charade entirely. That was just one of a number of hugely stupid mistakes he made.

But here's the catch on that - You're a WSer who follows cases and news in greater detail. The people who will be on a potential jury will be less interested in cases and usually admit to knowing nothing or only know vaguely from MSM reports. And the prosecutor will not bring up such info as testimony, unless perhaps PF took the stand where he would only say he acted on his lawyer's advice. So it matters in the court of WS opinion, but it is not evidence of anything. JMO (thinking ahead to trial)

I can think of cases like Scott Peterson where he did go to the searches... can anyone remember where someone acted like PF and did not search or put up flyers or attend vigils as PF has done?

 

[katydid23]

This is why I'm sort of leaning towards a discussion between PF and KB regarding custody back in October. Just KB knocking around a suggestion. I know she could have mentioned it to her mom, but, maybe she was just bouncing it off PF. Maybe change up her life. None of us know what or why something precipitated this senseless murder. YET. Feb 19th coming up.
IMO, it might have been something that would restrict his mom to just visitation. Not daily physical presence of Kaylee. Perhaps, even child support from PF.

I hate "case dropping", but, the Rhoden massacre boiled down to, in essence, just that. Custody of Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden's child, Sofia. Most horrific and deviously planned brutal murder of 8 people I've ever seen.
The Wagners planned and plotted for several month before executing their absolutely inhumane slaughter of this family.

Yes, to the idea of the possible 'custody' discussion. I think she may have mentioned that when the baby turns 2, she wanted her to be in preschool, to play with other kids, instead of being with grandma all day. OR maybe she said she was thinking of moving closer to her job at some point, and suggested they might need to reevaluate the daily child care routines.

Co-parenting is very difficult and very annoying. I don't think PF had the patience for it.

 

[NoeticSoul]

These are ranchers. Early morning chores. If they were fleeing I think LE would have found evidence of such in the vehicles and would have made sure the public knew about it (a la Scott Peterson with the dyed hair and lots of cash). And if it had been clear to them that SF was in the midst of helping PF escape, I think they would have found a reason to arrest her, too, that morning, if only for a bit. But they didn’t. Much more likely that these ranch people were doing morning chores.

LE haven't made everything "public" so maybe they wouldn't have. And I don't think they were doing 'chores' at 5 am or whatever time, with a baby. moo

 

[katydid23]

But here's the catch on that - You're a WSer who follows cases and news in greater detail. The people who will be on a potential jury will be less interested in cases and usually admit to knowing nothing or only know vaguely from MSM reports. And the prosecutor will not bring up such info as testimony, unless perhaps PF took the stand where he would only say he acted on his lawyer's advice. So it matters in the court of WS opinion, but it is not evidence of anything. JMO (thinking ahead to trial)

I can think of cases like Scott Peterson where he did go to the searches... can anyone remember where someone acted like PF and did not search or put up flyers or attend vigils as PF has done?

I don't know. I think the State might make it part of their narrative in Opening Statements. " The defendant never reported her missing, never called her or her friends to find out where she was, never searched or took part in press conferences or vigils. etc etc etc..."

Opening Statements are not evidence, but they do affect the Jurors thinking, imo.

 

[Lhughessk]

The Frazees including baby K, all absolutely should have shown up for the first press conference and stood in unity with CB and LE trying to alert the public about a missing mother. They could and should have let CB interact with baby K right there. It was incredibly cruel to withhold the baby from her maternal grandmother and reflects poorly on PF and his family.

I don't fault the Frazees for requiring search warrants. I'd require it, too.

JMO

PF himself only had an hour’s notice at that first P.C. I think there were things LE knew from the get-go that led them to engineer it so that only the Berreths were there. JMO

 

[susiQ]

For all we know, SF said: "We'll be on the flat between the house and the gate at exactly 8:30 a.m. Please bring another chain for the gate. My chain stock was depleted last week, by a sudden rash of inexplicable bolt cutter vandalism."
If you folks can speculate, I can speculate! IMO

Then why did LE handcuff SF initially if she made these arrangements and was SO forthcoming?

 

[Lhughessk]

LE haven't made everything "public" so maybe they wouldn't have. And I don't think they were doing 'chores' at 5 am or whatever time, with a baby. moo

It wasn’t nearly that early. And as someone who has lived the lifestyle - 5 am ain’t early, and some chores have to be done, baby or not.

 

[SandyQLS]

Colorado law does not allow for bail on a charge of Murder in the First Degree, until AFTER the second hearing. If the evidence presented on the 19th represents a reasonable likelihood of a conviction, there will still be no bail.
I don't think Vegas betters are going to come forward to establish odds on bail being granted.
IMO

Do you think after the arrest warrant info and a hint of evidence is released, a big name attorney may step in, even pro bono, for PF's defense? I have had a feeling all along that the next generation F Lee Bailey, Cochrane/Kardashian, L Abramson, Geragos, Jose Baez, will appear to make a name for himself or herself. I wonder if the bigger guns and media hounds have not stepped up because they need to see some glimmer of this sealed evidence before they can weigh the cost/benefit to themselves.