CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[susiQ]

bbm I am pretty confident that KB did not use drugs.

I think you misread the quote She meant in a custody battle, KB could use 'his' drug use against him.

 

[CDB]

And, the other part of it, which is difficult for us to see, is that PF, like most sociopaths, is probably charismatic, charming, maybe funny and sexy. Those traits are what suck people in and make it so hard to see clearly and get away from them. I don't Kelsey or KK were attracted to him because he was an angry a-hole (which he is). That would only be part of his personality.

Psychopaths are the ones that are charismatic and charming, sociopaths are actually diagnosed as "antisocial personality disorder" they may form bonds with some people but they often lack control and ability to perform the charade of complying with society that a psychopath does.

Further I know we like to assume all murderers are either sociopaths or psychopaths, but it is actually a clinical definition and requires meeting several criteria. However, the following must be present before the age of 15 in order to be diagnosed:

• Repeated violations of the law
• Pervasive lying and deception
• Physical aggressiveness
• Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
• Consistent irresponsibility in work and family environments
• Lack of remorse

PF may indeed meet these requirements, however if I recall he had no previous run ins with the law, though that may have been his family being connected and being able to hide them. With or without the title he appears selfish and uncontrolled, and deserves the penalties coming his way once convicted. I just think we often assign this title as if it somehow means the neighbor next door, or my buddy from high school will not murder, only sociopaths/psychopaths do.

Obviously, MOO
Psychopath vs. Sociopath: What’s the Difference? | HealthyPlace

 

[BingoBongo]

bbm I am pretty confident that KB did not use drugs.

I think the OP meant that KB would use PF's drug use (if any) as a means to modify any visitation he had, not that KB used drugs.

 

[NoeticSoul]

I think you misread the quote She meant in a custody battle, KB could use 'his' drug use against him.

You're right, I deleted it, thanks!

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

To my previous reply to your question, I would add that it looks she's the one with a lot to hide, hence her flying monkeys out there doing damage control. He's busted but she got this deal which, we've been told, is contingent upon her telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and I don't believe she's done that. While "setting up" wouldn't be the right term for what I'm thinking, I'd venture to guess that it is she who's spinning a narrative, painting herself as Miss Innocent and Skeered while fingering him, alone, for what she was probably all up in.

MOO

I wonder who had more,or just as much motive to want KB dead.
A jealous spurned woman,who's looks are fading fast,fighting the battle ofthe bulge. A woman who divorced her husband her husband shortly before KB natural beauty, adorable figure enters the picture,and has PF's baby.
Can't tell me there was not seething jealousy.
Not sure why PF wanted Kelsey dead.
Maybe she found about PF's nefarious activities he might have done.
He had the best of both worlds. One woman his fiance, another hidden 800 miles away. So there has to be a big incentive for him to want Kelsey dead.
I think they both conspired,and encouraged each other,and that's why PF feels "railroaded".
It's just that KK is the weakest link.
MOO.

 

[BingoBongo]

Psychopaths are the ones that are charismatic and charming, sociopaths are actually diagnosed as "antisocial personality disorder" they may form bonds with some people but they often lack control and ability to perform the charade of complying with society that a psychopath does.

Further I know we like to assume all murderers are either sociopaths or psychopaths, but it is actually a clinical definition and requires meeting several criteria. However, the following must be present before the age of 15 in order to be diagnosed:

• Repeated violations of the law
• Pervasive lying and deception
• Physical aggressiveness
• Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
• Consistent irresponsibility in work and family environments
• Lack of remorse

PF may indeed meet these requirements, however if I recall he had no previous run ins with the law, though that may have been his family being connected and being able to hide them. With or without the title he appears selfish and uncontrolled, and deserves the penalties coming his way once convicted. I just think we often assign this title as if it somehow means the neighbor next door, or my buddy from high school will not murder, only sociopaths/psychopaths do.

Obviously, MOO
Psychopath vs. Sociopath: What’s the Difference? | HealthyPlace

Lots of murderers out there, and lots of reason why they murder.

But generally, the murderers we discuss here, have a lot of commonalities; in their means of murder, who they murder, and their personalities. Am guessing none, or very few, posting here have the legal qualifications (I definitely do not) to diagnose, but I also think a lot of us have enough life experience, in addition to informal training/learning, to make some pretty good guesses.

 

[Dave F.]

I’d like to know where they were going as well. A boring possibility is that they were driving the trash bins down to the pick up area beyond their driveway fence. Given the early hour, that may be a possibility?

However, I don’t know why that would be a family affair. Perhaps PF needed his mommy’s help taking out the trash.

ETA: I also think it’s possible that he knew the arrest was coming, and rather than have LE come get him at his house, he started down the driveway to prevent the whole “fence padlock cutting scene.” Personally, I preferred the lock cutting scene.

Haha! The TCSD seemed to prefer the bolt cutters, too! IMO

 

[MyBelle]

I wonder who had more,or just as much motive to want KB dead.
A jealous spurned woman,who's looks are fading fast,fighting the battle ofthe bulge. A woman who divorced her husband her husband shortly before KB natural beauty, adorable figure enters the picture,and has PF's baby.
Can't tell me there was not seething jealousy.
Not sure why PF wanted Kelsey dead.
Maybe she found about PF's nefarious activities he might have done.
He had the best of both worlds. One woman his fiance, another hidden 800 miles away. So there has to be a big incentive for him to want Kelsey dead.
I think they both conspired,and encouraged each other,and that's why PF feels "railroaded".
It's just that KK is the weakest link.
MOO.

The only motive I can think of is money. KB was worth more to PF dead than alive. I've wondered all along if PF had taken out an insurance policy on her after the baby's birth. It has been said that PF and KB were some kind of business partners. Perhaps that business wasn't doing well.


JMO

 

[Nudgee]

<snipped for focus>


I once thought that might happen, but less so now. Given that KK was charged with only tampering for her involvement, which in my opinion was MAJOR (irks me big time), if these lesser characters came to LE to tell their side of the story (say, the guys at the dump) I highly doubt they will be charged with anything. If KK can get the deal she did, I'm not sure what they would charge them with if they are co operating and will testify for the prosecution. JMT

I’ve felt the same.... since the get go I’ve also felt as though there has to be someone else out there. But as more time goes by and I read through all the posts on WS, I’m finally accepting this may not be the case. Others involved??? ... absolutely possible. Will they be charged???...doubtful seeing how KK got her sweet plea.

One thing I do feel confident about is my disdain for KK, her friend MS, and the R’s. The MANY hours/days/months they could have contacted LE ( or even an anonymous hotline/tipline if they weren’t sure/didn’t want to get involved etc...) that could have saved KB’s life. Yet....they did nothing. As in the Dalia Dippolito case down here. DD solicited, solicitor contacted authorities, and a sting operation was conducted by LE. Her ex is still alive and she finally went to jail. THAT is not only how it’s supposed to work, it’s what we’re supposed to do/would naturally do, as warm blooded human beings. While they may never be legally held accountable, I will always hold them morally accountable (and cold blooded).

Waiting patiently for the documents to be unsealed!!!

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Neighbor left the house in the 12:30 to 1:00pm range but did she see the truck when she returned and when did she return? My memory is she did see the truck but did not feel it was unusual.

What I recall was that she was leaving for her Thanksgiving celebration. I do not think there was any mention of when she returned; the assumption being she was gone many hours or even more than a day. I do not recall any comment about whether his truck was there when she returned. I do recall a neighbor saying it was not unusual to see his truck parked crossways behind her vehicles, but I do not even know if that was the same neighbor. One neighbor said he was only there to pick up/drop off the baby, another neighbor said he was there so much the neighbor thought he lived there. Definitely unclear/conflicting messages and we simply do not know what is correct.

 

[nwmouse]

To my previous reply to your question, I would add that it looks she's the one with a lot to hide, hence her flying monkeys out there doing damage control. He's busted but she got this deal which, we've been told, is contingent upon her telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and I don't believe she's done that. While "setting up" wouldn't be the right term for what I'm thinking, I'd venture to guess that it is she who's spinning a narrative, painting herself as Miss Innocent and Skeered while fingering him, alone, for what she was probably all up in.

MOO

However we know this DA is quite thorough, he dots all his i's and crosses all his t's.

I'm sure if she were involved to a greater extent this sweet plea-deal she's been given would not exist.

I'm sure that Dan May/LE have satisfied themselves of all her involvement which is why they gave her the deal.

I think KK was a willing patsy but not a mastermind.

MOO

 

[Love Never Fails]

The only motive I can think of is money. KB was worth more to PF dead than alive. I've wondered all along if PF had taken out an insurance policy on her after the baby's birth. It has been said that PF and KB were some kind of business partners. Perhaps that business wasn't doing well.


JMO

MyBelle,
I have never thought this was about money. Maybe jealousy or control. I felt it was just because he wanted total control of the baby or of his situation, whatever that included.

 

[Nudgee]

U

I have read many sources about the neighbors account of PF’s truck. Also posts. Among them would be DM, which I always take lightly, and local news outlets. Neighbor left the house in the 12:30 to 1:00pm range but did she see the truck when she returned and when did she return? My memory is she did see the truck but did not feel it was unusual. I maybe confusing the time she was gone until all day. Please remember that in late November many areas in the Mountains lose sunlight by 3:30pm.
Thanks for clarifying the charges. We don’t know what was taken other than purse and cell phone. That could be enough to file on.
Lots of speculation to be had with this case.

Hope this article helps with the discussion of the neighbor seeing “red truck” between 12:30/1:00pm..... you have to read further down in the article past PF picture to see the neighbors quote.

Patrick Frazee arrested for first-degree murder in Kelsey Berreth case

 

[UnicornDragon]

The only motive I can think of is money. KB was worth more to PF dead than alive. I've wondered all along if PF had taken out an insurance policy on her after the baby's birth. It has been said that PF and KB were some kind of business partners. Perhaps that business wasn't doing well.


JMO

Insurance side - going to be VERY hard to get any private life insurance on a pilot, never mind a flight instructor. Even group insurance through an employer is iffy.

 

[BingoBongo]

I've thought a lot about PF's "reason" for killing KB.

In time, we may find out. All things considered I think it was probably a combo of things, all leading back to him losing it due to him losing control over her and the baby. Not sure if we would ever be able to pinpoint one, precise, reason...if there is just one.

It appears that KB was smart, accomplished, and probably figured him out to the point of wanting to end their romance. She may have found out about KKL (and others if there were any) and called him on it as well...but I bet she finally saw through his shtick with women and "outted" him.

 

[Hatfield]

I’d like to know where they were going as well. A boring possibility is that they were driving the trash bins down to the pick up area beyond their driveway fence. Given the early hour, that may be a possibility?

However, I don’t know why that would be a family affair. Perhaps PF needed his mommy’s help taking out the trash.

ETA: I also think it’s possible that he knew the arrest was coming, and rather than have LE come get him at his house, he started down the driveway to prevent the whole “fence padlock cutting scene.” Personally, I preferred the lock cutting scene.

It was a little too coincidental their attempted departure that day wasnt it.

If they were attempting to flee, it would be interesting to know how they were warned in advance. The warning was not nearly early enough because they didn't get too far. LOL

Here is a guess.
Maybe they were monitoring a scanner and by the time they realized what all the scanner traffic noise was about, they barely had time to grab their "go-bags" and barely made it down to their gate.

Or was it the other way around and someone like KK warned LE that they were fixing to blow the coop.

 

[MassGuy]

It was a little too coincidental their attempted departure that day wasnt it.

If they were attempting to flee, it would be interesting to know how they were warned in advance. The warning was not nearly early enough because they didn't get too far. LOL

Here is a guess.
Maybe they were monitoring a scanner and by the time they realized what all the scanner traffic noise was about, they barely had time to grab their "go-bags" and barely made it down to their gate.

I don’t think they happened to be driving at the time law enforcement decided to initiate the arrest, I think law enforcement initiated the arrest because they happened to be driving.

It’s safer for all involved, to arrest people when they are not in their homes. For this reason, law enforcement frequently waits until a suspect is driving.

I don’t think they were fleeing.

 

[MyBelle]

MyBelle,
I have never thought this was about money. Maybe jealousy or control. I felt it was just because he wanted total control of the baby or of his situation, whatever that included.

I think every murderer needs to control. While jealousy may be KK's motive to participate, I think money was the driver for PF.

 

[The Saint]

And didn't they remove something large and flat wrapped in plastic? Did I imagine that? I deduced that it was a piece of sheetrock from the ceiling showing blood spatter. MOO

In the video of crime investigators searching the house (the camera was outside in the dark), I saw a big square wrapped in brown paper that was the size of a large painting and also something large that was curved and looked like it was part of a fiberglas shower wall.
imo

 

[MemPat]

Insurance side - going to be VERY hard to get any private life insurance on a pilot, never mind a flight instructor. Even group insurance through an employer is iffy.

It's not too farfetched to believe KB had a hefty company-paid life insurance policy with the baby as beneficiary. PF would have been the person controlling how that was spent. MOO