CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[MemPat]

I saw a big square wrapped in brown paper that was the size of a large painting and also something large that was curved and looked like it was fiberglas like a shower wall.
imo

I assumed something came from the ceiling since LE took in a ladder.

 

[Snowsnake]

I think every murderer needs to control. While jealousy may be KK's motive to participate, I think money was the driver for PF.

I agree. This will be the underlying motive. KB’s family is financially well having sold their hay ranch and retired into an upscale area of Idaho. PF on the other hand owns cattle and rents pasture in a severely drought stricken State. Hay is being shipped into Colorado at high prices for those that have kept their cattle. A lot of people started herd liquidation as early as September. This fits into the narrative of KB’s mother saying financial problems got in the way of their marriage. Also fits the time of the first solicitation by PF. PF could have tried to persuade KB to get money from her parents to save his herd and she refused. I am sure she knew who and what he was by then.

 

[GordianKnot]

I think every murderer needs to control. While jealousy may be KK's motive to participate, I think money was the driver for PF.

Agreed. IMO, KB was in a more stable situation as far as her income/finances than PF.
KB purchased the townhome. PF stayed at the ranchette. He did not contribute toward the purchase of the townhome.

New homes incur added expenses. KB purchased the home prior to September.
IMO, if KB had started bringing up issues r/t lack of consistent, meaningful financial support for Baby K's needs and/or if KB broached the subject of seeking formal child support and/or child custody arrangements, this would have absolutely enraged PF.

PF is not someone who would adopt a "What's mine is yours attitude" r/t anything, but especially not his money or his personal possessions.

IMO, some type of monetary factors + child custody + PF being a total PF = motive.

JMO.

*Edited to correct initials.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Are we allowed to discuss PF's cattle sales? I'll link so.

 

[susiQ]

Thinking on possible motives. I think it's easier with KK. Seething jealousy of KB as AofA pointed out and possibly to prevent PF from revealing some damning secret she has and is holding over her head. She felt compelled to assist him. I won't speculate on the rumours here about why KK got a divorce. But, it's not beyond the realm of possibility there was something that tied her tight with PF and she was seething when she learned about KB and baby K.

Much more complicated with PF. He's got two women on the go, one his baby's mother and the other one he chats up and beds down when it suits him. Things weren't going well with KB, she realized he's no prince but actually a toad, but now there's a baby in the equation. Maybe KB found out about KK? There's a rodeo in September, just can't remember if that was in CO or ID. Was KK there? Remember, they own horses together. KB gives him an ultimatum? He knows if it ends, there's custody to be worked out. But, baby K is HIS and he's not going to give her up. Heck, PF may already have met someone online again. He thinks with the h@$d in his pants, not the one on his shoulders.
He felt trapped more than railroaded and his pitiful life reached critical mass in Sept. He wanted out of EVERYTHING so he could move on. So, I think his motives were custody (control) and his next hop in the sack. Pathetic.

Ironic thing for KK though, she thinks if KB's dead and they get away with this, she'd ride into the sunset with her cowboy. NADA going to happen. HAD they gotten away with this crime, he was riding into the sunset with someone else and what was she going to do? Tell everyone what he did and implicate herself?

I'm having a hard time determining who was more stupid.

ed: changed frog to toad. Frogs aren't as ugly.

 

[Artis]

I do wonder if the killing was planned ( on pf’s part) around kk being in town to take phone back with her, or did she know before she came that Kelsey was dead.

I could say there are no coincidences or just point out that considering those two had discussed the murder of Kelsey, on several occasions, it seems pretty damn unlikely she drove nearly 800 miles to Colorado and Kelsey, coincidentally, happened to get murdered during her visit.

 

[MassGuy]

It's not too farfetched to believe KB had a hefty company-paid life insurance policy with the baby as beneficiary. PF would have been the person controlling how that was spent. MOO

Yes, but no body, no life insurance payout, atleast right away.

It would have taken a great deal of time until Kelsey was declared dead, and PF would have been able to cash in.

We just don’t see financially motivated killers, play that type of long game.

As that super annoying JG Wentworth commercial says:

“It’s my money and I need it now!”

 

[Artis]

Good morning! Yipes. Is it just me, or is the New Threads tab on the right in Chinese/or something? Must need coffee. lol

KEK

 

[lindaromas]

Thinking on possible motives. I think it's easier with KK. Seething jealousy of KB as AofA pointed out and possibly to prevent PF from revealing some damning secret she has and is holding over her head. She felt compelled to assist him. I won't speculate on the rumours here about why KK got a divorce. But, it's not beyond the realm of possibility there was something that tied her tight with PF and she was seething when she learned about KB and baby K.

Much more complicated with PF. He's got two women on the go, one his baby's mother and the other one he chats up and beds down when it suits him. Things weren't going well with KB, she realized he's no prince but actually a toad, but now there's a baby in the equation. Maybe KB found out about KK? There's a rodeo in September, just can't remember if that was in CO or ID. Was KK there? Remember, they own horses together. KB gives him an ultimatum? He knows if it ends, there's custody to be worked out. But, baby K is HIS and he's not going to give her up. Heck, PF may already have met someone online again. He thinks with the h@$d in his pants, not the one on his shoulders.
He felt trapped more than railroaded and his pitiful life reached critical mass in Sept. He wanted out of EVERYTHING so he could move on. So, I think his motives were custody (control) and his next hop in the sack. Pathetic.

Ironic thing for KK though, she thinks if KB's dead and they get away with this, she'd ride into the sunset with her cowboy. NADA going to happen. HAD they gotten away with this crime, he was riding into the sunset with someone else and what was she going to do? Tell everyone what he did and implicate herself?

I'm having a hard time determining who was more stupid.

ed: changed frog to toad. Frogs aren't as ugly.

Hmmmm, do you have an exact date for that rodeo in September?

 

[lindaromas]

Hmmmm, do you have an exact date for that rodeo in September?

I found an old rodeo schedule, there were 3 in Idaho Sept 3-4 Blackfoot ID one on Sept 5 and Sept 6-8 Both of these were Lewiston ID

2018 Rodeo Results

 

[susiQ]

Hmmmm, do you have an exact date for that rodeo in September?

Twins Falls, ID Magic Valley Stampede Aug. 29 - Sept. 4 2018
Twin Falls County Fair and Magic Valley Stampede - Filer, ID - Aug 29, 2018
ed:date

 

[MemPat]

Yes, but no body, no life insurance payout, atleast right away.

It would have taken a great deal of time until Kelsey was declared dead, and PF would have been able to cash in.

We just don’t see financially motivated killers, play that type of long game.

As that super annoying JG Wentworth commercial says:

“It’s my money and I need it now!”

Thanks for getting that commercial stuck in my head, MG! You owe me and I want my money now! I'm sure you're right!

 

[Aydrianna523]

Have other witnesses come forward with evidence?

Did KK see KB's body at anytime while in CO? (Sorry, but I have a hunch she may have as she told M "she has never seen that kind of evil in anyone."

ed:sp

I'm curious, as well, as to what she meant by "she had never seen that kind of evil in anyone". Was she referring to the solicitations, his threatening her family, or did she see the actual murder? And what was the "legitimate fear" mentioned by friend M. Was it really legitimate fear or an excuse. I'm staying tuned to see if we get answers.

 

[Snowsnake]

Are we allowed to discuss PF's cattle sales? I'll link so.

I would think so. It would be very relative to the civil suit. The criminal and civil are linked and the immediate timing of the filing had a reason.

 

[lindaromas]

Twins Falls, ID Magic Valley Stampede Aug. 29 - Sept. 4 2018
Twin Falls County Fair and Magic Valley Stampede - Filer, ID - Aug 29, 2018
ed:date

Thank you! I don't see any familiar names on the winners list.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Are we allowed to discuss PF's cattle sales? I'll link so.

Ok, I'll go ahead. We know he has a complete dispersal sale in early Jan. CB spoke of PF's financial problems with cattle prices being down so I thought I'd go back to La Junta Livestock Commission official fb page and see if he's sold any cattle since Sept. I found that the week before the murder, PF sold 62 head of cattle.

La Junta Livestock Commission, Inc.
November 16, 2018

Patrick Frazee 39 blk & red strs 588 lbs 147.00
Patrick Frazee 23 blk & red hfrs 548 lbs 140.00

I'm not sure if I'm calculated this right but taking total lbs times price per pounds equals $166992.

I'm wondering if KB invested in his cattle program and if this sale was a contention point. Was she wanting her share?

If someone has time, maybe they could go further back to see his sales history for the past couple of years. To see if this sale was a one-off, or if it's a usual thing for cattle ranchers. It could be typical to sell steers in the fall, or it could be that he was raising money just before the murder.

 

[susiQ]

I'm curious, as well, as to what she meant by "she had never seen that kind of evil in anyone". Was she referring to the solicitations, his threatening her family, or did she see the actual murder? And what was the "legitimate fear" mentioned by friend M. Was it really legitimate fear or an excuse. I'm staying tuned to see if we get answers.

I believe the timing is crucial as well. Did KK tell M that before KB was dead, or AFTER?

 

[Beagle]

As I have only been able to skim through due to time, I have not noticed any mention of family members speaking up for PF .... or for that matter only a few friends very early on. I find this rather telling in itself. Why isn't there ongoing support for PF?

 

[Artis]

JMO
Just want to comment that certain aspects of handling animals on a farm may seem aggressive to some that are not familiar with it but there has to be a certain level of control over an animal or the animals can harm themselves or can harm the handler if they are too loosely controlled when trying to move them to a new spot or things like that.

There of course is a fine line there and what we have seen with PF is he seems to have crossed that line in some of the things we have seen and heard about him.

For me personally, as far as rodeos and circuses and even zoos now I have joined the crowd that dislikes them and I finally see the light. Its sad to me and if I had my way there would be none of them anymore.

But for the necessity of farm life and raising animals for human consumption that is something different to me and I respect all the farm and land owners that know how to do it right and be as respectful as possible to the animals they raise.

The world is a callous place and this is a touchy subject. I don't eat animals so my own positions are not mainstream. Of course, I hate rodeos because they hurt animals. It's just a different breed of people that get into that stuff. I read that KK roped and tied up goats. I love goats and think anyone who ropes and ties them up should have that done to them - just for the entertainment like with they do to animals. I'd say that being into that lifestyle would mean KK isn't a sensitive or empathetic person so would not have been put off PF and his "rough" handling of animals. I think they're two peas in a pod and her only regret is getting caught. If the only role she played was swiping Kelsey's phone and sending texts in her name (which I do not believe), I think she should do five years in prison so I'm kind of mental about all of this, I'll admit. I am really pissed she's gotten such a sweet deal because I think she's evil.

 

[MassGuy]

As I have only been able to skim through due to time, I have not noticed any mention of family members speaking up for PF .... or for that matter only a few friends very early on. I find this rather telling in itself. Why isn't there ongoing support for PF?

Probably because PF ain’t got no friends.

It is odd that we know so little about this guy, this far into the case.

Perhaps people are scared, or maybe he’s got a tight/loyal circle.