CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

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  • #941
Welcome, with a great first post.
Love the info you have provided.
Hope you are able to add notes, on the main characters in this case.

Hi tmar, oh, yes, I think I will be. :) I really tried to keep away from posting because I knew I would probably get hooked. And yes, here I am. I read a lot and if I come across things that I think people may be interested in, I will definetely post. Thank you so much for the warm welcome! See you around. :)
 
  • #942
Thank you so much for the warm welcome! Yup, I think I am gonna be posting… ;)

The big why in cases such as this…. It has so very much preoccupied me since the CW case. I just finished a very good book titled “The Anatomy of Evil” by Dr. Michael Stone. I highly recommend it. A couple things I highlighted that I thought you might find interesting:

On Personality:
  • Personality all by itself, with no “help” from mental illness, drug abuse, head injury etc., can account for the tendency to commit crimes of exceeding violence.
  • A useful equation in thinking about personality is that which we inherit accounts for about half of our personality; environment makes up the other half.
  • No surprise, narcissism is common to almost all persons who commit serious crimes.
  • The three personality disorders with a close relationship to crime are antisocial, psychopathic, and sadistic. Schizoid is also seen.
  • If we wanted to narrow our focus to single out the personality configuration that is connected with particular closeness to our concept of evil, it would be at the place where psychopathy, sadistic personality, and schizoid/autistic-spectrum disorders all come together.
Some info that may be applicable to case:
  • Describing category of “Killers (not totally psychopathic) of people “in the way”” – Not impulsive in nature. We are dealing instead with violent acts that were carried out in a cold and methodical way from the beginning – followed by equally methodical ways of trying to escape justice. Factor-I traits (glibness and/or superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, conning or manipulativeness, lack of remorse or guilt, shallow affect, callousness and lack of empathy/compassion, and failure to accept responsibility for one’s actions) are evident, but usually less rage and intemperate behavior. Examples include Mins and Einhorn who killed because the women they had once loved rejected them. Neither saw any solution to his loss and wounded pride than to murder the women who had hurt them. That each of these men had driven the women away because of abusiveness was clear to everyone else; they remained steadfastly blind to the obvious and thus felt “justified” in exacting revenge. Now, I do think he can be described as methodical as he definetely put thought into it...
  • Impulsive wife murders account for only 1 case in 9.
  • Dr. Stone states “but of all the things I learned from looking at the histories of wife murderers, the most remarkable includes: the men (that preplanned the murder) hardly ever confessed, even when convicted… Confession was common in the impulsive husbands”.
A lot of you predict that PF will not admit to what he has done to Kelsey and I agree. I have a hard time seeing him as charming, but I am sure that he does have that capacity, otherwise a smart, good, and beautiful girl, such as Kelsey, would have never fallen for him. She deserved SO much better! It breaks my heart.

If not ok to post things like this, just delete and let me know. I need to read up on rules tonight.

Let me add my welcome and a big thank you for all this very interesting information ... I hope to see more as this case moves forward!
 
  • #943
  • #944
Hi All, long-time follower, first-time poster... I was close to replying a few times, but knew I would get sucked in further if I did... Anyhow, today is the day... I am a Psych NP, with passion for suicide prevention, and researched the above mentioned case. I don't know any additional info other than what's in the media, but do want to share that she unfortunately had a lot of VERY significant suicide risk factors including the presence of a mood disorder (and anxiety, and insomnia), likely being off her mood stabilizer, a very significant family history of suicide, and likely alcohol in her system. This can be the perfect storm... Alcohol disinhibits and often is the one factor that makes the difference between a person making it through a suicidal crisis without acting on it or not. In other words, having alcohol in the system is like taking the foot off the break so thoughts turn into deeds. An impulsive moment is all that it takes unfortunately and being off medications and with alcohol..... OK, I could go on an on an on. What I read about this case, leads me to think it was a suicide as well and justice was done, but like I said, I may not be aware of information others are.

Anyhow, I feel this case is completely different and both PF and KK look very very very guilty and I can't wait for justice for Kelsey! Kelsey and her family have been on my mind every single day!!!

I hope I didn't rerail the discussion. If I did, please delete.
Welcome
 
  • #945
I believe the LLC was identified about 30+ threads ago --if not removed for violating TOS (sleuthing family). Good thing about LLC's is that they definitely protect the privacy of the LLC members and/or beneficiaries!
Actually,in WA state, members and officers of any corporations, as well as other specific info relating to the company, are very much public information. Corporations - Washington Secretary of State

Also, LLCs would not have beneficiaries, they would have members/owners. The division of assets/profits/liabilities is distributed to the members based on their ownership/ basis in the company.

Sorry, if I just put everyone to sleep with boring accounting/legal info... It is a habit...
 
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  • #946
Great post, I’m new-ish too, so I’m glad the link inspired you to brave making that first post. And I am glad to hear that the two cases and circumstances seem far different from one another, and that the type of defense angle used in the Fallis case would be very unlikely to be appropriate or to present itself in this case.

Seconding the shout-out of Welcome to Websleuths!

Thank you so much, steeltowngirl! Yes, I have silently "stalked" (for the lack of a better word) this thread (and in past the CW thread). I have learned so much from everyone and love how people are supportive to one another.
Yes, i think the two cases are very different, but it shows, how versatile you have to be as a lawyer. I mean the law is the law, but I am sure it makes a big difference who you represent and if you genuinely believe that you are fighting on the right side. I don't know if that makes sense...
 
  • #947
Actually,in WA state, members and officers of any corporations, as well as other specific info relating to the company, are very much public information. Corporations - Washington Secretary of State
True but governing information of a Corporation is public everywhere.

(Not to be confused with privacy of the holdings of another "LLC" eligible as member, or "invividual" memeber, of said family LLC). MOO
 
  • #948
Yep just pmo hopefully Tuesday alot more comes out with evidence the good ole boys can't explain away . Lady justice needs b**** slap them
Oh karma will have her say and way with anyone involved in Kelsey's murder. They will get theirs eventually, all of them, who knew what PF wanted to do, did it, and helped him cover it up. Even if it's not a long term jail sentence, somehow, some way, just will be served.
 
  • #949
7L Investments, Ltd, a Washington corporation, can exercise the absolute first lienholder right of repossession on the condo at any time. They don't need a bunch of mumbo jumbo to back it up. IMO
Please do not identify the name of the LLC as its considered Sleuthing the family...
 
  • #950
Actually,in WA state, members and officers of any corporations, as well as other specific info relating to the company, are very much public information. Corporations - Washington Secretary of State
Also, LLCs would not have beneficiaries, they would have members/owners. The division of assets/profits/liabilities is distributed to the members based on their ownership/ basis in the company.
Sorry, if I just put everyone to sleep with boring accounting/legal info... It is a habit...
Responding to your "edited" post.

The reference to beneficiary in O/P was relative to death of an LLC Member whereby one could certainly be beneficiary to Member's ownership in said LLC. And I'm fluent on boring, (accounting/legal info). Nice to meet you! :)
 
  • #951
It was @riolove77 but I can't find it. :/ Still looking, it was very early this morning.

riolove77 has some posts on page 41 of this thread from earlier today, not sure if those are what you're looking for.

I thought I remembered some discussion when the civil lawsuit was filed on Jan. 4, 2019 and I've been looking in the threads for that date for any relevant posts, but I'm still looking.
 
  • #952
Responding to your "edited" post.

The reference to beneficiary in O/P was relative to death of an LLC Member whereby one could certainly be beneficiary to Member's ownership in said LLC. And I'm fluent on boring, (accounting/legal info). Nice to meet you! :)
I am speaking to the initial structure while you are referencing what happens upon death of a member... Sorry, completely different pages! So sorry!
 
  • #953
riolove77 has some posts on page 41 of this thread from earlier today, not sure if those are what you're looking for.

I thought I remembered some discussion when the civil lawsuit was filed on Jan. 4, 2019 and I've been looking in the threads for that date for any relevant posts, but I'm still looking.

Thank you. I saw those but the one I was thinking of is no longer there or I'm just too tired today to find it with the link that was included. :/

eta Maybe @riolove77 will stop by tonight and re-post it!
 
  • #954
I believe we can all agree PF did not want to share anything -- including baby K and/or her care!

Baby K would still be a minor, and any of her interests under a Trust or LLC subject to guardianship or representative.

And absolutely, financial opportunity could be another motive for PF to murder KB.

BBM I agree with this. The Berreth's suit is from what they know through their own observations and interactions with PF. There could be more that they aren't privy to. I don't doubt there is. He's a proven liar.
 
  • #955
Thank you. I saw those but the one I was thinking of is no longer there or I'm just too tired today to find it with the link that was included. :/

eta Maybe @riolove77 will stop by tonight and re-post it!
Copy @?mysterian?

I'm sorry this is still ongoing and/or my posts unclear.

Actually, there have been two discussions by riolove77 and myself on wrongful death lawsuit: 1) basis for wrongful death lawsuit, and 2) who may bring a wrongful death lawsuit in Colorado.

As provided by @riolove 77, the basis for wrongful death lawsuit is negligence and fault.

Under C.R.S. § 13-21-202, a wrongful death action may be successfully maintained if the person who died, had she survived, would have been legally entitled to recover damages against the person or entity who caused the injury or condition resulting in death.

And C.R.S. § 13-21-201 governs who may bring a wrongful death action in Colorado.

Is there still a question that Berreth's lawyers don't understand legal standing, and therefore their lawsuit should be dismissed?

I don't get it, but hope the actual statute sections will satisfy the ongoing. :)
 
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  • #956
Copy @?mysterian?

I'm sorry this is still ongoing.

Actually, there have been two discussions by riolove77 and myself on wrongful death lawsuit: 1) basis for wrongful death lawsuit, and 2) who may bring a wrongful death lawsuit in Colorado.

As provided by @riolove 77, the basis for wrongful death lawsuit is negligence and fault.

Under C.R.S. § 13-21-202, a wrongful death action may be successfully maintained if the person who died, had she survived, would have been legally entitled to recover damages against the person or entity who caused the injury or condition resulting in death.

And C.R.S. § 13-21-201 governs who may bring a wrongful death action in Colorado.

Is there still a question that Berreth's lawyers don't understand legal standing, and therefore their lawsuit should be dismissed?

I don't get it, but hope the actual statute sections will satisfy the ongoing. :)

I'm satisfied! :D And thank you very much. My ocd self was just frustrated that I can't find what I saw earlier and was replying about lol
 
  • #957
govinfo

I'm just guessing but I think they’re referencing federal law ( 28 U.S.C. 1332) (cited in the amended claim) “Diversity Jurisdiction”

28 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2016 Edition
Title 28 - JUDICIARY AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURE
PART IV - JURISDICTION AND VENUE
CHAPTER 85 - DISTRICT COURTS; JURISDICTION
Sec. 1332 - Diversity of citizenship; amount in controversy; costs
From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov

§1332. Diversity of citizenship; amount in controversy; costs

(a) The district courts shall have original jurisdiction of all civil actions where the matter in controversy exceeds the sum or value of $75,000, exclusive of interest and costs, and is between—

(1) citizens of different States;
 
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  • #958
ot A view from my front yard of the angry skies, high winds, and snow descending upon the foothills from the high country of Pikes peak right now.

on topic I just heard a teaser for the evening news about the landfill search so will be listening at 6 pm to see.
Keep us posted on any updates on the landfill. I pray her last moments have not been there.
 
  • #959
Keep us posted on any updates on the landfill. I pray her last moments have not been there.

Will do! I didn't hear anything at 6 pm news so am waiting til 9 and 10. :)
 
  • #960
I recall KB purchased the property as an Individual (i.e., single woman), and transferred or funded title to the LLC.

It was a smart move for any party wishing to avoid probate and/or asset protection. We also have to remember that KB was a flight instructor, and the very nature of her work opened and/or exposed her to serious legal ramifications. MOO
That would have been a cash purchase by KB. Purchase price was well over 200 thousand IIR. Banks will not allow you to take out a loan on the property and then deed the property into an LLC. Violates the deed of trust and the bank will accelerate the note demanding full payment. Since PF meet her on line I believe she was targeted from the get go to be the money honey. She never had a chance with that low life or his rodeo queen. Yes he exhibits a lot of personality problems and he is a lousy lair. So does KK.
 
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