CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[InvSmith]

Thank you so much for the warm welcome! Yup, I think I am gonna be posting…

The big why in cases such as this…. It has so very much preoccupied me since the CW case. I just finished a very good book titled “The Anatomy of Evil” by Dr. Michael Stone. I highly recommend it. A couple things I highlighted that I thought you might find interesting:

On Personality:

• Personality all by itself, with no “help” from mental illness, drug abuse, head injury etc., can account for the tendency to commit crimes of exceeding violence.
  
• A useful equation in thinking about personality is that which we inherit accounts for about half of our personality; environment makes up the other half.
  
• No surprise, narcissism is common to almost all persons who commit serious crimes.
  
• The three personality disorders with a close relationship to crime are antisocial, psychopathic, and sadistic. Schizoid is also seen.
  
• If we wanted to narrow our focus to single out the personality configuration that is connected with particular closeness to our concept of evil, it would be at the place where psychopathy, sadistic personality, and schizoid/autistic-spectrum disorders all come together.

Some info that may be applicable to case:

• Describing category of “Killers (not totally psychopathic) of people “in the way”” – Not impulsive in nature. We are dealing instead with violent acts that were carried out in a cold and methodical way from the beginning – followed by equally methodical ways of trying to escape justice. Factor-I traits (glibness and/or superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, conning or manipulativeness, lack of remorse or guilt, shallow affect, callousness and lack of empathy/compassion, and failure to accept responsibility for one’s actions) are evident, but usually less rage and intemperate behavior. Examples include Mins and Einhorn who killed because the women they had once loved rejected them. Neither saw any solution to his loss and wounded pride than to murder the women who had hurt them. That each of these men had driven the women away because of abusiveness was clear to everyone else; they remained steadfastly blind to the obvious and thus felt “justified” in exacting revenge. Now, I do think he can be described as methodical as he definetely put thought into it...
  
• Impulsive wife murders account for only 1 case in 9.
  
• Dr. Stone states “but of all the things I learned from looking at the histories of wife murderers, the most remarkable includes: the men (that preplanned the murder) hardly ever confessed, even when convicted… Confession was common in the impulsive husbands”.

A lot of you predict that PF will not admit to what he has done to Kelsey and I agree. I have a hard time seeing him as charming, but I am sure that he does have that capacity, otherwise a smart, good, and beautiful girl, such as Kelsey, would have never fallen for him. She deserved SO much better! It breaks my heart.

If not ok to post things like this, just delete and let me know. I need to read up on rules tonight.

I appreciate your thorough post. I think KB was too far in when she realized what PF was. She also wasn't going to leave her daughter behind. Thank goodness her Mom has been strong to protect her daughter's memory and granddaughter's life. KB had a quote on one of her social media pages that speaks to my soul, 'the monster in front of me is not bigger than the God inside of me.' She was absolutely right. She is with God. Her daughter is protected. The monster is unmasked in a cage.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I just want to tell you a little about Kelsey. 4:05

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Poor CB, that was the very first PC and watching her make that brief statement brought tears to my eyes. She is so devastated over the loss of her daughter, rightly so.

 

[InvSmith]

Before our next big media storm or latest document is uncovered, I just want all of you to know you are awesome!!! It is obvious you are committed to truth and facts and professionalism needed for these criminal cases. At the end of the day, people just have people. Looking deeply into painful situations helps us be able to help those around us go through these situations with more empathy and dignity. Thank each you for helping me grow and learn along the way. Many blessings!

 

[NoeticSoul]

Poor CB, that was the very first PC and watching her make that brief statement brought tears to my eyes. She is so devastated over the loss of her daughter, rightly so.

I felt the same way watching that today. I believe that it is her faith (and family) sustaining her through all this and I'm glad she can find comfort in that. She seems like she will do whatever it takes to honor Kelsey and take over the care of Baby K and I'm behind her all the way. 'There before the grace of God go I'. I'd never make it through... moo

 

[Gardener1850]

What's in Westcliffe?

17. Also, on or about December 2, 2018, Cheryl-Lee Berreth asked Frazee to go to Kelsey’s home to check on her. Frazee said he was in Westcliffe but promised that he would do so. Cheryl-Lee Berreth also sent a text message to Frazee on or about this same date, asking him to pick up a package if it was on Kelsey’s doorstep. Upon information and belief, Frazee did neither.

Google Maps

I can't stop thinking about Westcliffe and wondering what PF was doing there. I noticed it is not far from Crestone where there has been a search of the mines looking for Kristal Resinger: Haunting image over mine shaft appears during hunt for missing mom
Custer County has many mines too, several near Westcliffe: Custer County Colorado Mines

Although, I don't think PF would wait until Dec 2 to get rid of KB's body. Perhaps he was getting rid of the gun or other evidence in a mine in Westcliffe?

 

[NoSI]

Thank you so much everyone for warm welcome! I better not

I appreciate your thorough post. I think KB was too far in when she realized what PF was. She also wasn't going to leave her daughter behind. Thank goodness her Mom has been strong to protect her daughter's memory and granddaughter's life. KB had a quote on one of her social media pages that speaks to my soul, 'the monster in front of me is not bigger than the God inside of me.' She was absolutely right. She is with God. Her daughter is protected. The monster is unmasked in a cage.

Very very well said! I could not agree more. Wow, that quote does speak to the soul! I am just so taken by CBs strenght in general and especially under the most incredible stress imaginable. And Kelsey was her mother's daughter... brave, strong, stoic! She likely knew very quickly what she was facing. But stuck it out for her daughter's sake, because she knew she wasn't in a "regular" relationship/co-parenting situation, whatever it was or turned into. But i do believe that good will prevail and PF will be held accountable as will KK.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

I just had a thought about what KK could have meant when she said she learned that KB had been murdered by PF. Could he have shown her the body? If she had said no to the solicitations and she shows up for Thanksgiving to be shown KBs body, her story could be that he did so as a threat to her to do what he wanted or she would end up like KB.

I say story just because I’m not sure how reliable information from KK is just yet. What we have learned from MS and the Rs is not favorable IMO. I also felt she seemed a bit disingenuous during her testimony- more upset over how everything was effecting her life vs genuine remorse for her involvement in KBs murder. MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

I can't stop thinking about Westcliffe and wondering what PF was doing there. I noticed it is not far from Crestone where there has been a search of the mines looking for Kristal Resinger: Haunting image over mine shaft appears during hunt for missing mom
Custer County has many mines too, several near Westcliffe: Custer County Colorado Mines

Although, I don't think PF would wait until Dec 2 to get rid of KB's body. Perhaps he was getting rid of the gun or other evidence in a mine in Westcliffe?

Interesting idea. I'd bet on the gun before the body, and Westcliffe before Crestone because of those mountains in between. Google Maps

Is it too much to hope that we find out on Tuesday 1) if the gun is missing and if not, where it was found, and 2) if PF was really in Westcliffe on Dec. 2?

MOO

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Maybe this guy Cline ought to be investigated.

I wanna know how Cline knew custody arrangements.
MOO

 

[skyedaze]

I just had a thought about what KK could have meant when she said she learned that KB had been murdered by PF. Could he have shown her the body? If she had said no to the solicitations and she shows up for Thanksgiving to be shown KBs body, her story could be that he did so as a threat to her to do what he wanted or she would end up like KB.

I say story just because I’m not sure how reliable information from KK is just yet. What we have learned from MS and the Rs is not favorable IMO. I also felt she seemed a bit disingenuous during her testimony- more upset over how everything was effecting her life vs genuine remorse for her involvement in KBs murder. MOO

I couldn't stand the the continual fake sniffling after each pause. Sniffle sniffle...yet no wiping away tears from her eyes...because there weren't any tears. It was just fake sniffling. So fake.

 

[marchioness96]

I just had a thought about what KK could have meant when she said she learned that KB had been murdered by PF. Could he have shown her the body? If she had said no to the solicitations and she shows up for Thanksgiving to be shown KBs body, her story could be that he did so as a threat to her to do what he wanted or she would end up like KB.

I say story just because I’m not sure how reliable information from KK is just yet. What we have learned from MS and the Rs is not favorable IMO. I also felt she seemed a bit disingenuous during her testimony- more upset over how everything was effecting her life vs genuine remorse for her involvement in KBs murder. MOO

ITA with the second paragraph of your post.

As far as using she "learned" rather than "he told me" in her statement, I had the impression that KK's statement had been crafted to be deliberately vague for legal reasons. MOO and I could be off, of course!

 

[riolove77]

practically, it cannot be too prejudicial, if these allegations are all about to come out soon anyway, but if I were the defense, I would be displeased. in another case, if the allegations were ringing true, it might pressure the defendant to plead. IMO.

Yeah, this doesn’t come close to the level of unfairly prejudicial you need in order to keep something out. It’s prejudicial, sure. But not unfairly so.

 

[riolove77]

But that is saying that it was about the child, and you’re entitled to that opinion certainly. I was saying that ultimately I don’t think it was about the child in a love or a custody sense. I believe it was about not wanting to be tied to KB anymore. She was an impingement on his freedom. He didn’t see the child as being such an impingement, only KB. She knew the kind of man he really was and could communicate that, while the child couldn’t.

Fully agree

 

[Gardener1850]

Interesting idea. I'd bet on the gun before the body, and Westcliffe before Crestone because of those mountains in between. Google Maps

Is it too much to hope that we find out on Tuesday 1) if the gun is missing and if not, where it was found, and 2) if PF was really in Westcliffe on Dec. 2?

MOO

Oh, I agree. I don't think he went to Crestone. But I was thinking he might have taken the idea to hide something in a Westcliffe mine from seeing media coverage of the mine search for Kristal. If he knew the Crestone area mines were being searched he would not go there. Custer County is just one county over and plenty of options to hide something.

In addition to info about the gun, I hope we find out:

Where KB's cell phone was found (if it was actually found).
Where/When Baby K was actually taken from Kelsey on Nov 22.
What evidence LE found in KB townhouse that indicates she is no longer alive.
What PF was getting rid of at the waste management station with the two men who unloaded for him.
What was found at SF's ranch (and why the 5 LE vehicles paid PF a brief visit.
How did KK travel to Colorado and what days.
What time were the text messages sent on Nov 25th.
Content and wording of the text messages.
Do they know where KB's body is likely located? (Landfill search?)
Was there any evidence found in her vehicles of his truck showing he used them to transport the body?

If we find out all that I think we may have info overload on Tuesday.

MOO.

 

[PommyMommy]

Oh, I agree. I don't think he went to Crestone. But I was thinking he might have taken the idea to hide something in a Westcliffe mine from seeing media coverage of the mine search for Kristal. If he knew the Crestone area mines were being searched he would not go there. Custer County is just one county over and plenty of options to hide something.

In addition to info about the gun, I hope we find out:

Where KB's cell phone was found (if it was actually found).
Where/When Baby K was actually taken from Kelsey on Nov 22.
What evidence LE found in KB townhouse that indicates she is no longer alive.
What PF was getting rid of at the waste management station with the two men who unloaded for him.
What was found at SF's ranch (and why the 5 LE vehicles paid PF a brief visit.
How did KK travel to Colorado and what days.
What time were the text messages sent on Nov 25th.
Content and wording of the text messages.
Do they know where KB's body is likely located? (Landfill search?)
Was there any evidence found in her vehicles of his truck showing he used them to transport the body?

If we find out all that I think we may have info overload on Tuesday.

MOO.

We don't want much, do we? Lol

@Kapua, are all of these "want to know's" on your list?

 

[jewelsmac]

I wanna know how Cline knew custody arrangements.
MOO

Wouldn’t he get his account from PF? Was there even a formal custody agreement? Wouldn’t that of come out before now? Think it’s safe to assume that every single thing that has come out of PF’s mouth so far has been an absolute lie. But you tend to believe your friends right? These people are just parroting what they were told by him. IMO

 

[skyedaze]

Have any of KBs friends stated anything about a break up date?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Wouldn’t he get his account from PF? Was there even a formal custody agreement? Wouldn’t that of come out before now? Think it’s safe to Soum that every single thing that has come out of PF smell so far has been an absolute lie. But you tend to believe your friends right? These people are just parroting what they were told by him. IMO

I'm taking anything and everything that comes out of his mouth as subterfuge, including what he told Cline and his friends, that are now parroting it to the media.

 

[Gardener1850]

I wanna know how Cline knew custody arrangements.
MOO

My guess is he's repeating what he heard from PF's lying lips. I can see it starting out as a way for PF to justify bringing Baby K along on his donkey job in Cripple Creek and to get free child care while he worked. IIRC, Cline's wife watched baby K while PF and CC went out to tend the donkeys. The first time he brought Baby K to Cline's wife to watch, PF probably lied and said KB was not reliable and had stuck him with the baby at the last minute. That way PF gets sympathy and free childcare. The second or third time PF brought baby K along he could have lied again and said he had full custody now since, since KB was always running off and had to go to drug rehab (LIAR!)


MOO.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

ITA with the second paragraph of your post.

As far as using she "learned" rather than "he told me" in her statement, I had the impression that KK's statement had been crafted to be deliberately vague for legal reasons. MOO and I could be off, of course!

I think that she "learned" instead "he said" to distance herself as far away as possible from PF.
MOO, MOO