CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[riolove77]

In my opinion, killing your fiancé who you share a child with is not “about custody.” It’s about not wanting your fiancé around anymore. The only way the child is involved is that the child’s existence means you’re going to have to interact with the mother for decades. I don’t think PF is a doting father who loves his daughter and couldn’t stand the thought of being without her. He is a man who hated the thought of a woman weighing him down when he wanted to be totally free of her. JMO

Where did I say he was a loving father who couldn’t stand to be away from his child? Custody is the term used to describe legal and physical decision making for a minor. It does not imply any underlying motive for wanting it.

 

[LovesPeace2]

Where did I say he was a loving father who couldn’t stand to be away from his child? Custody is the term used to describe legal and physical decision making for a minor. It does not imply any underlying motive for wanting it.

Hey Rio in the custody case what would the chances of pfs family to get more then supervised visits with what we know so far in your opinion

 

[OldLadyBlues]

eta Good morning!

But there has never been any searches here locally for her body. None that have been publicized in MSM anyhow. I find that extremely strange and it makes me believe that there is nothing left to be found. I think the Berreths know this s well. And I think that is what KK means by "never seen that kind of evil in anyone" Just mho

I think this bolded quote will eventually bring KKL to her knees and be her total downfall.
Lies and innuendos are funny things because you can't EVER remember their pathways.
MOO, MOO

 

[NoeticSoul]

And I would add that he was punishing KB in the ultimate way for defying him. PF def has serious control issues IMO.

I completely agree. It was VERY personal and I believe the murder itself and/or the disposal method was heinous because of it.

 

[NoeticSoul]

I think this bolded quote will eventually bring KKL to her knees and be her total downfall.
Lies and innuendos are funny things because you can't EVER remember their pathways.
MOO, MOO

Exactly. If you don't lie you don't have to remember anything lol I sincerely hope you are right and believe you are. Karma will catch up with her lies for her. I need to see her serve jail time, and ALLOT of it! moo

 

[riolove77]

For the verified attorneys, is there any ground for the Bs to file civil suit against KKL? I can't imagine the agony they must feel, knowing that KKL had knowledge that could have saved KB if KKL had gone to authorities. As a nurse, I feel like it was KKL's ethical duty to report it and she had multiple occasions to do so. As a former social worker and a current nurse, I err on the side of caution in reporting. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if my failure to report resulted in great harm or death.

The key to a wrongful death suit is the basis on which it is filed. It appears that the Berreths filed on a negligence claim, if I recall correctly. For a wrongful death claim to survive, the person or people filing it have to have a claim that the injured victim themselves would have if they were alive.

Let me see if I can give an example. In negligence, you have to prove duty, breach, causation, and damages. This means that KB would have to have a valid claim against PF if she were alive, and only then would the Berreths claim for the same survive.

I do not believe KK had a duty to KB. Yes, she was a mandated reporter in her profession but I just don’t think that’ll be enough to hold up a claim against her. And if she had no duty, she could not have breached it and therefore there would be no causation or damages.

Hope that helps. And again it’s only my professional opinion. Maybe the Berreths attorney will feel ambitious and try.

 

[Jessthinkin]

I completely agree. It was VERY personal and I believe the murder itself and/or the disposal method was heinous because of it.

Yup, and to me, PF's every action, including body language, reeks of "You're not the boss of me"..., personified...

 

[Lhughessk]

Where did I say he was a loving father who couldn’t stand to be away from his child? Custody is the term used to describe legal and physical decision making for a minor. It does not imply any underlying motive for wanting it.

I didn’t say that you said that. Geez.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Exactly. If you don't lie you don't have to remember anything lol I sincerely hope you are right and believe you are. Karma will catch up with her lies for her. I need to see her serve jail time, and ALLOT of it! moo

I'm old. Half the time I can't even remember my name. But these younger whippersnappers are being taught (none too kindly), the value of truth. The beauty of this exercise is that they will have plenty of time to ponder it.
IMHO

 

[NoSI]

Interesting... KK’s attorney was the same attorney who obtained a not-guilty verdict in the Tom Fallis case - setting reasonable doubt that he didn’t kill his wife, but that she had instead committed suicide.

IrisEytan, DruNielsen - Colorado Lawyers - The Force of Nature and the Steadying Hand

Hi All, long-time follower, first-time poster... I was close to replying a few times, but knew I would get sucked in further if I did... Anyhow, today is the day... I am a Psych NP, with passion for suicide prevention, and researched the above mentioned case. I don't know any additional info other than what's in the media, but do want to share that she unfortunately had a lot of VERY significant suicide risk factors including the presence of a mood disorder (and anxiety, and insomnia), likely being off her mood stabilizer, a very significant family history of suicide, and likely alcohol in her system. This can be the perfect storm... Alcohol disinhibits and often is the one factor that makes the difference between a person making it through a suicidal crisis without acting on it or not. In other words, having alcohol in the system is like taking the foot off the break so thoughts turn into deeds. An impulsive moment is all that it takes unfortunately and being off medications and with alcohol..... OK, I could go on an on an on. What I read about this case, leads me to think it was a suicide as well and justice was done, but like I said, I may not be aware of information others are.

Anyhow, I feel this case is completely different and both PF and KK look very very very guilty and I can't wait for justice for Kelsey! Kelsey and her family have been on my mind every single day!!!

I hope I didn't rerail the discussion. If I did, please delete.

 

[Oregon]

27. On Friday, February 8, 2018, Krystal Lee Jean Kenney (hereinafter referred to as “Kenney”) testified under oath in the District Court of Teller County, Colorado, that Frazee
admitted to Kenney that he had murdered Kelsey on or about November 22, 2018.

Above is from the complaint filed. Is this a problem since KK did not actually testify that PF told her he murdered KB? Like much of her other testimony, that portion left many questions.

Was not this part of the statement KK read to the judge?

 

[riolove77]

Many here thought that is was foolish to file the civil suit at such an early stage, but I'm grateful they did!

For all of our hard working attorney's here:
Is there any information contained in the Civil suit that can be used in the Criminal trial? @gitana1, @riolove77, @Mercedes, @PrairieWind

I think it’s possible the civil suit will be stayed pending outcome of the criminal trial. Because PF has a 5th A right against self incrimination, he cannot be forced to testify in a civil suit if it will set him up for criminal culpability.

Having said that, federal law allows for juries to infer from a defendant’s refusal to answer questions in a civil suit. This means the jury in PFs civil case could infer his guilt from the refusal.to testify. But that does not apply to criminal trials. So there’s a predicament there obviously, if the trials are running concurrently.

Time will tell.

 

[Hatch]

Bingo

PF mentioned the gun for a reason we do not know yet. There must be some importance to the gun, or maybe he kept it and is saying I don't know where her gun is I gave it back to her. Could that be what they were looking for in the landfill?

 

[?mysterian?]

I agree.

However, I cringe at the number of dumping places possible between WP and Westcliffe if traveling along the State or County roads in late November.

I wonder why PF put himself in Westcliffe? (re. PF told CB he was in Westcliffe during one of their phone conversations).

MOO

Maybe PF had horses to trim/shoe in Westcliffe.

 

[yawningreyhound]

And he needed to make it look like he thought Kelsey was alive. Chris Watts also texted Shanann hours after he killed them.

oh my, remember Arias texting Travis to "go to a concert" after she murdered HIM?

 

[Seattle1]

The key to a wrongful death suit is the basis on which it is filed. It appears that the Berreths filed on a negligence claim, if I recall correctly. For a wrongful death claim to survive, the person or people filing it have to have a claim that the injured victim themselves would have if they were alive.

Let me see if I can give an example. In negligence, you have to prove duty, breach, causation, and damages. This means that KB would have to have a valid claim against PF if she were alive, and only then would the Berreths claim for the same survive.

I do not believe KK had a duty to KB. Yes, she was a mandated reporter in her profession but I just don’t think that’ll be enough to hold up a claim against her. And if she had no duty, she could not have breached it and therefore there would be no causation or damages.

Hope that helps. And again it’s only my professional opinion. Maybe the Berreths attorney will feel ambitious and try.

It's still proving very difficult here to acknowledge that under modern law, knowing a felony occurred and not reporting it is not a crime ("misprision of felony" crime abolished 100+ years ago)!

If only we could punish the morally bankrupt KK's of the world....

Since KK allegedly moved KB's phone after she was dead, wouldn't it be impossible for Berreth's to prove damages?

Also, if KK committed other unknown acts dropped pursuant to her plea agreement, could Berreth's use the charges not pursued in criminal court in their own action against her? Thanks...

 

[?mysterian?]

Hi All, long-time follower, first-time poster... I was close to replying a few times, but knew I would get sucked in further if I did... Anyhow, today is the day... I am a Psych NP, with passion for suicide prevention, and researched the above mentioned case. I don't know any additional info other than what's in the media, but do want to share that she unfortunately had a lot of VERY significant suicide risk factors including the presence of a mood disorder (and anxiety, and insomnia), likely being off her mood stabilizer, a very significant family history of suicide, and likely alcohol in her system. This can be the perfect storm... Alcohol disinhibits and often is the one factor that makes the difference between a person making it through a suicidal crisis without acting on it or not. In other words, having alcohol in the system is like taking the foot off the break so thoughts turn into deeds. An impulsive moment is all that it takes unfortunately and being off medications and with alcohol..... OK, I could go on an on an on. What I read about this case, leads me to think it was a suicide as well and justice was done, but like I said, I may not be aware of information others are.

Anyhow, I feel this case is completely different and both PF and KK look very very very guilty and I can't wait for justice for Kelsey! Kelsey and her family have been on my mind every single day!!!

I hope I didn't rerail the discussion. If I did, please delete.

Welcome to Websleuths, NoSI!

 

[riolove77]

Hey Rio in the custody case what would the chances of pfs family to get more then supervised visits with what we know so far in your opinion

Honestly I don’t know. It’s going to depend on what more comes out regarding what they may or may not have known and when. The way his family jumped to get custody right away screamed out that this was the motive behind this all along. If the Berreths end up with permanent custody, and the Frazees get any visitation, it’s likely going to amount to them having to travel to Idaho for it, at least for the first several years. The baby is so young.

 

[Oregon]

Good morning! From the amended document at link: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Amended+complaint+vs+Patrick+Frazee.pdf
it looks like KB's parents are the plaintiffs.
(snipped by me):

"PARTIES, JURISDICTION AND VENUE

1. At all times pertinent hereto, the Plaintiff Cheryl-Lee Ellen Berreth was a natural person and citizen of the state of Idaho and resides in Bonner County.

2. At all times pertinent hereto, the Plaintiff Darrell Lynn Berreth was a natural person and citizen of the state of Idaho and resides in Bonner County.

3. At all times pertinent hereto, Plaintiffs Cheryl-Lee Ellen Berreth and Darrell LynnBerreth were husband and wife and the natural parents of Kelsey Berreth (hereinafter referred to as “Kelsey”)."

(snipped by me)

I am in awe of Cheryl Berreth’s inner strength, and the bond that Kelsey’s family presents in the face of this horrific tragedy.

 

[Warwick7]

I do not believe the Berreths would do anything they know could jeopardize the criminal case against PF. There seems to be some insinuation that they did this to spite the judge not unsealing the affidavit or whatnot. I really don’t think so. They have not spoken to the media in a long time and are not giving interviews from what I’ve seen. There are plenty of easier ways to go about getting out the info they want than this.

However CB is grace under fire. She shows great restrain. She's tactical. So is the amendment.