CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[justaparent]

I can't imagine how else KK would have "learned" about it had PF not told her.

He no doubt did but that’s not what was testified in court. They left a lot of things unclear in her testimony.m

MOO

 

[Deleted member 718]

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Thanks Hatch, I was wanting to watch this again. Nothing really to add, except both Kelsey and Mollie Tibbetts called their moms asking for recipes just before they were murdered. Both girls so sweet and unassuming.

 

[SandyQLS]

The thing is, you file an unlawful death suit based on a legal theory that underlies it. So negligence in this case, which is a tort theory.

So the Berreths couldn’t simply call KK an accessory after the fact in their suit and include her on those grounds.

The moving of the phone would not have caused her death and would not be a basis for a wrongful death suit.

Okay, thanks. I have been curious since the first B filing about the claim that PF had a duty to protect KB, was negligent, and such wording - it sounded antiquated, like a fiance has a special duty. Now if PF had copies of KB's keys, and perhaps her gun, maybe the B's think he gave those keys to someone else so that person could enter her townhome?

 

[NoeticSoul]

In his statements to CB, he said KB often turns the phone off when baby is sleeping or she is studying. This implies to me, that the baby’s home was with KB.

bbm And that she was still studying to further her education/career! moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

I can understand with the guilty plea of KK this case being updated to reflect those statements as it does. By KK confessing PF told her he murder KB, that is vital to this case and of course the criminal case. I think for any mother it is about justice and that is not necessarily about a courtroom. It is about setting her daughter's record right. These are the lies you told and here is the truth about her as a mom before all the media attention of the criminal case. While everyone is trying to control information about PF and KK, CB found a way to speak the truth about her daughter.

Another Love button needed here. Absolutely agree.

Can you imagine her anger and frustration knowing she had to basically play a mouse and cat game with her beautiful and wonderful daughter's killer during the entire time KB was 'missing' by PF who had baby K in her control??!!!

It was CB not DB who was able to stand up under the pressure like a BOSS LADY! She's so awesome and I know that with her influence baby K will be just like her and momma KB. But dammit KB should be alive here and doing it herself.

 

[girlhasnoname]

*BIG eye roll* I hope that the defense doesn't do too much victim bashing but if they do I can't imagine it would help with the jury very much. More so hurt them hopefully, if they tried that. I think they will turn on KK myself. moo

YES! I don't see this as PF's defense strategy either. Show those pictures of KB and little KB, KB's accomplished career and lifestyle and if the defense starts slinging mud, PF might as well just go ahead and plead guilty. I also think it would alienate the jury rather than help him in any way.

JMO

 

[acutename]

But why would they come out with this right now, before the hearing on the 19th? Isn’t that prejudicial against PF? I know we don’t care but the judge might.

practically, it cannot be too prejudicial, if these allegations are all about to come out soon anyway, but if I were the defense, I would be displeased. in another case, if the allegations were ringing true, it might pressure the defendant to plead. IMO.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I can only imagine the lies CB had to hear during the custody hearing. PF's sister's been particularly cruel on social media.

 

[Lhughessk]

Well, I said that we knew all along it was about custody and you replied that killing his fiancée was not “about custody” because it was about control and not his love for his child. And I simply replied that I never said it was about his love for his child either; that my saying it was about custody was custody in the legal term. Control of the decision making of the child. Not his desire to be with her all the time.

But that is saying that it was about the child, and you’re entitled to that opinion certainly. I was saying that ultimately I don’t think it was about the child in a love or a custody sense. I believe it was about not wanting to be tied to KB anymore. She was an impingement on his freedom. He didn’t see the child as being such an impingement, only KB. She knew the kind of man he really was and could communicate that, while the child couldn’t.

 

[heartgoesout]

No. I think it will be his word against hers, IF there was no ring, which I don't believe there was, sadly for Kelsey. She sure deserved one.

eta Curious, why do you think it's important in the civil suit?

Because they are claiming in the civil suit he lied about being engaged. IMO they can't use both theories.
You're either going with they were were not engaged and the motive for murdering her was custody...
or if they are claiming he lied about being engaged and they were actually engage and can prove it, there's no reason for a custody battle which is what they are saying the motive was.
Am I explaining that right?

 

[PommyMommy]

In his statements to CB, he said KB often turns the phone off when baby is sleeping or she is studying. This implies to me, that the baby’s home was with KB.

bbm And that she was still studying to further her education/career! moo

Yes! PF is not the brightest bulb is he?!
MO

 

[Aydrianna523]

Not sure if pf killed KB just to get custody of Baby K. If his plan failed (which it did), he'd get zero visitation. So the plan was ALL or NONE? What kind of odds are those?!
It was more than that. It was hate as well. Sometimes it seems like guys get jealous of a woman's closer connection to a baby...the joy aspect.
But hate is hard to analyze... moo

 

[Lhughessk]

I can't imagine how else KK would have "learned" about it had PF not told her.

The news.

 

[Lhughessk]

That's a good question, and I for one have no idea why that date 12/23. Lots of posters are bringing up good thoughts and questions.

Overall, the B's lawsuit is claiming infliction of emotional distress because they believe PF lied to them. I don't know if that cause has actual merit, but the civil lawsuit is to apply pressure to PF and to control the publicity about the criminal case.

It’s pretty obvious that it was a typo, nothing more. Don’t you think?

 

[acutename]

It's still proving very difficult here to acknowledge that under modern law, knowing a felony occurred and not reporting it is not a crime ("misprision of felony" crime abolished 100+ years ago)!

If only we could punish the morally bankrupt KK's of the world....

Since KK allegedly moved KB's phone after she was dead, wouldn't it be impossible for Berreth's to prove damages?

Also, if KK committed other unknown acts dropped pursuant to her plea agreement, could Berreth's use the charges not pursued in criminal court in their own action against her? Thanks...

I think in some states, KK would have had a legal duty to return, or to try to return, the cell phone to its owner, either by contacting the service provider or by turning it into LE.

 

[Dave F.]

*BIG eye roll* I hope that the defense doesn't do too much victim bashing but if they do I can't imagine it would help with the jury very much. More so hurt them hopefully, if they tried that. I think they will turn on KK myself. moo

I think Adam Steigerwald is a far better attorney than to lower his defense strategy to victim bashing. KKL is now a prosecution witness, and there is a natural adversarial relationship between prosecution and defense. IMO

 

[Kapua]

*PUKE* See, that's exactly what I mean. He will have a fine jury pool right where he is. Dammit. SMH

The prosecution will disqualify anyone who knew him, went to school with him, used his farrier services, etc., thus reducing the jury pool substantially. I still think there'll be a change of venue. I've been wrong many times before.

 

[Kapua]

Court filing reveals possible motive for Kelsey Berreth killing; friends saw Patrick Frazee as doting father and hard-working rancher
Friends and acquaintances of Patrick Frazee describe the man they know as a hard-working rancher, farrier, and horse trainer who lived on his family’s 35-acre property in Florissant. Some speak of him as an average Joe while others as a caring father who would help anyone.

“He was a nice guy,” said Tim Graf, co-owner of Blue Mountain Ranch, a youth summer camp in Florissant. Graf was in the same graduating class of 2004 at Woodland Park High School as Frazee.

So it was with shock and disbelief that some in the community registered the arrest of Frazee on Dec. 21 on suspicion of murdering his fiancee, Kelsey Berreth, the mother of the couple's 1-year-old daughter.

Going back the decade-and-a-half to high school days, those who knew Frazee then said he hung out with other kids from the rural part of the county, was involved in the 4-H crowd, and was an average, unassuming teen.

“A quiet guy was all I ever knew,” said another classmate.

There have been “no issues” with Frazee in the Teller County jail, said Sheriff’s Office Cmdr. Greg Couch, adding that Frazee likely will remain jailed in Divide after Tuesday's hearing.

Frazee helped Gilda Dellinger move her horse from Divide to Colorado Springs when she relocated to a new home.

She said she’s known Frazee for 20 years and would never have believed he could kill someone.

“He’s always been so kind and helpful,” she told The Gazette after attending Frazee’s hearing in January, one of several Frazee supporters at the courthouse in Cripple Creek.

Cline blames the media for spreading inaccurate information since Berreth’s disappearance hit national news as a missing person case in early December. He said the media has incorrectly portrayed Frazee as a bad guy.

“I’m shocked and annoyed at how people are acting,” he said. “There’s been no evidence presented so far. He’s an all-around nice guy, and a good dad.”

Contrary to what has been reported, Cline said Frazee was the primary caretaker of the couple's baby, Kaylee, who is now about 16 months old.

“He’s been raising the little girl since she was born,” Cline said. “Kelsey (Berreth) had visitation, and he had custody.”

GAG

The media has correctly portrayed Frazee as a bad guy, IMHO. Clearly, these people believed his lies. The truth will prevail. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

The media has correctly portrayed Frazee as a bad guy, IMHO. Clearly, these people believed his lies. The truth will prevail. MOO

I’m not even sure that they’ve “portrayed” him as anything.

They’ve reported the fact that he is charged with murder, solicitation to commit murder, and interviewed people who have both good and bad things to say about him.

How dare they?!

Sometimes the truth ain’t pretty.

 

[Kapua]

The news.

There was no news about it prior to Dec. 2.