CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[Lhughessk]

Does anyone know if KB’s firearm is now in the possession of LE?

MOO, but I’d say it’s not. I suspect it’s still missing, just like her keys and purse. (And perhaps even her phone. I still haven’t heard that it’s officially been recovered, only that KKL admits she moved it.)

Which then makes me wonder if maybe her body is not in the landfill at all but was instead “staged” in the wilderness somewhere so that, if it were ever found, it might appear to have been a suicide. Hmm...

I guess we’ll find out soon enough when we learn what the townhouse evidence of her demise actually is. And where the motivation to search the landfill came from. Etc., etc. PF certainly seems to have followed through on a half-baked plan, for sure. I’m also sure he thought it was airtight. ...SMDH...

All of the above is MOO, as always...

Yeah I think there was a definite reason he specifically mentioned keys and a gun. The keys was to say he didn’t have access to her home anymore. The gun was to say if she is ever found dead of a gunshot and linked back to that gun, he no longer had that gun.

 

[lindaromas]

More on Colorado wrongful death:

Colorado Wrongful Death Lawyers | Bachus & Schanker Attorneys

"Who Can Bring A Wrongful Death Claim?
Colorado’s wrongful death law is found in the Colorado Revised Statues (C.R.S. 13-21-201 et.seq.) These laws specifically identify which family members are eligible to bring a wrongful death claim in Colorado and provide time limits for bringing these claims. In Colorado, the surviving spouse has the exclusive standing to bring a claim within the first year after the death, and both the surviving spouse and children have standing to bring a claim thereafter. If there is no spouse, then the children may bring a claim; if there is no spouse and no children, then and only then may the parents of the deceased bring a claim. In wrongful death cases in Colorado, there is a two year statute of limitation, meaning that a claim must be brought within two years of the death."

The Statute of Limitations for a Wrongful De - Guides - Avvo

"Who Can Bring a Claim of Wrongful Death

Colorado’s laws specify that the surviving spouse and the children of the victim can bring a wrongful death claim. The parents of the deceased person can file for a claim only if the deceased doesn’t have a spouse or children.

The spouse is entitled to bring the suit in the first year after death, and the spouse may provide written notice allowing the deceased's heirs to file the claim, too. If there is no spouse, then the heirs may bring the suit. In the second year, the spouse and/or heirs may bring the suit."

*

Every source says the same thing. As parents of the unmarried deceased person who left a minor child (heir), they have no standing to make a wrongful death claim on their own behalf.

Wondering if Kelsey had a will?

 

[Mimi in London]

Could the following be PF's plan, all only MOO:
Could KB's gun have been used in the murder, and a bullet was found in the ceiling of her home, having brain matter around it, and ceiling?
This would account for reporting KB was murdered in her home, using ladders in their search.
Then KB's body was moved, in the direction of the phone pings, to stage a suicide, if/when the body is found: ie KB was heading to her grandmother's home.
KB's cars were left, to appear, KB traveled with a work colleague.
MOO.

Agreed, he planned to make it look as though she went off with a friend/colleague.

He would have been mad if she was actually making new friends (maybe male friends).

It’s possible we’ll see the Defence bringing up particular friendships she may have developed.

However, by trying to paint her as a ‘bad’ mom who socialised after work instead of coming straight home, he has inadvertently disclosed his controlling nature and part of his motive.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Kelsey Berreth's parents' suit claims Patrick Frazee killed fiancee over custody of daughter | Daily Mail Online

Nothing new really.

 

[Kapua]

Perhaps through social media? MOO

KK had KB's phone on Nov. 24, by her own admission in court, under oath. KB was last seen alive on Nov. 22. Who, other than PF, who had baby K, would be posting on SM that KB was missing prior to Dec. 2, when CB called PF and then the police?

 

[Kapua]

Kelsey Berreth's parents' suit claims Patrick Frazee killed fiancee over custody of daughter | Daily Mail Online

Nothing new really.

The gun and keys are new, off the top of my head.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Agreed, he planned to make it look as though she went off with a friend/colleague.

He would have been mad if she was actually making new friends (maybe male friends).

It’s possible we’ll see the Defence bringing up particular friendships she may have developed.

However, by trying to paint her as a ‘bad’ mom who socialised after work instead of coming straight home, he has inadvertently disclosed his controlling nature and part of his motive.

bbm I agree. He would have been really pissed if he thought another man would be around his daughter too. PF would never allow that imo

 

[Seattle1]

He no doubt did but that’s not what was testified in court. They left a lot of things unclear in her testimony.m

MOO

KK's hearing was an "advisement" where she read her statement -- it was not intended to be her full account. I don't recall her being sworn in either. She gave us a preview. The point is, PF told her KB was dead, and prosecution needs her cooperation during the trial.

 

[Dave F.]

bbm And that she was still studying to further her education/career! moo

This might mean studying her Bible. IMO

 

[NoeticSoul]

ot A view from my front yard of the angry skies, high winds, and snow descending upon the foothills from the high country of Pikes peak right now.

on topic I just heard a teaser for the evening news about the landfill search so will be listening at 6 pm to see.

 

[Noharg]

DBM already answered

 

[lindaromas]

The prosecution team will be there as well as PF and his defense team. The prosecution will lay our their probable cause to the judge, what lead them to arrest PF. This is the information that has been sealed that we are all waiting to hear...what evidence that they found (so far) that gave them probable cause to arrest PF. The judge will then rule if the prosecution has proved to proceed. The judge has said that he will make a ruling after this hearing about unsealing the docs. There will be reporters there tweeting what is going on in the courtroom, so we will at least get information from there. If (hopefully) the probable cause affidavit is unsealed, this will have the most information.
Hope that helps.

I believe I read the judge will decide if bail can be posted also and set the amount.

Edit add: if bail is allowed he’ll set the amount. I don’t see this happening though JMO

 

[Seattle1]

Designated beneficiary could be tied to the town house Berreth LLC I think that's what it's called. Correct me if needed please.

Yes, that or a trust instrument, will, etc.

Not to be confused with the "2009 Colorado Designated Beneficiary Agreement Act" with limited benefits (first drafted to protect same sex unions). A Berreth LLC, Trust, etc. are principal types of legal instruments that can supersede a "Colorado Beneficiary Agreement." [C.R.S. 15-22-105]

Copy @SandyQLS , @Dave F.

 

[lindaromas]

Yes, that or a trust instrument, will, etc.

Not to be confused with the "2009 Colorado Designated Beneficiary Act Agreement" with limited benefits (first drafted to protect same sex unions). The Berreth LLC, Trust, etc. are principal types of legal instruments that can supersede a "Colorado Beneficiary Agreement." [C.R.S. 15-22-105]

Copy @SandyQLS , @Dave F.

Thank you!

 

[marchioness96]

Just noticed Paragraph 12 of the amended complaint. CB asks PF if everything is ok, PF says “here’s the Story...”....

Those words are telling IMO...specifically “story” since that’s what the whole thing was, a made up story.

Exactly. And I can just hear him saying it preceded by a big sigh, the implication being, "look how reasonable I am, and look how unreasonable KB is being...she ran away and abandoned her daughter!"

He'd been waiting to tell CB his "story".

 

[Seattle1]

More on Colorado wrongful death:

Colorado Wrongful Death Lawyers | Bachus & Schanker Attorneys

"Who Can Bring A Wrongful Death Claim?
Colorado’s wrongful death law is found in the Colorado Revised Statues (C.R.S. 13-21-201 et.seq.) These laws specifically identify which family members are eligible to bring a wrongful death claim in Colorado and provide time limits for bringing these claims. In Colorado, the surviving spouse has the exclusive standing to bring a claim within the first year after the death, and both the surviving spouse and children have standing to bring a claim thereafter. If there is no spouse, then the children may bring a claim; if there is no spouse and no children, then and only then may the parents of the deceased bring a claim. In wrongful death cases in Colorado, there is a two year statute of limitation, meaning that a claim must be brought within two years of the death."

The Statute of Limitations for a Wrongful De - Guides - Avvo

"Who Can Bring a Claim of Wrongful Death

Colorado’s laws specify that the surviving spouse and the children of the victim can bring a wrongful death claim. The parents of the deceased person can file for a claim only if the deceased doesn’t have a spouse or children.

The spouse is entitled to bring the suit in the first year after death, and the spouse may provide written notice allowing the deceased's heirs to file the claim, too. If there is no spouse, then the heirs may bring the suit. In the second year, the spouse and/or heirs may bring the suit."

*

Every source says the same thing. As parents of the unmarried deceased person who left a minor child (heir), they have no standing to make a wrongful death claim on their own behalf.

It was not necessary. Berreths' obviously believe they have legal standing to file the suit as parents, and I agree with them. C.R.S. § 13-21-201 governs who may bring a wrongful death action.

Pursuant to a recent statutory amendment, a “designated beneficiary” of the decedent may also have standing to bring a wrongful death action, in lieu of, or in addition to other parties with standing enumerated by the statute. [emphasis added].

Take note "designated beneficiary" here not to be confused with designated beneficiary agreement pursuant to 2009 Colorado Designated Beneficiary Agreement Act.

Berreth's are also represented by the firm that worked on Micheal Jackson's Estate, and represented Katherine Jackson in multi billion wrongful death lawsuit against music promoter AEG Live.

I trust their lawyer understands legal standing!

Meet the Colorado Lawyer Working On Michael Jackson's Estate | 5280

 

[Snowsnake]

I have been trying to find information on the Berreth LLC. No luck with SOS in Colorado, Washington, or Idaho. My thinking is this could be a vehicle used by the Berreth Family to protect their holdings and other assets. The family were successful hay ranchers in Washington and sold the Ranch. By using an LLC and placing all children in it, funds from the sale could be used to purchase other property. The baby could have been added to the LLC and is already an owner of the WP property without will or probate. Just one more motive for PF to claim full custody. He wanted in on the family.

Couple of other routes to trace down the LLC but I am to cold from being out in a ground blizzard. Hope it made sense.

 

[Hatch]

Another Love button needed here. Absolutely agree.

Can you imagine her anger and frustration knowing she had to basically play a mouse and cat game with her beautiful and wonderful daughter's killer during the entire time KB was 'missing' by PF who had baby K in her control??!!!

It was CB not DB who was able to stand up under the pressure like a BOSS LADY! She's so awesome and I know that with her influence baby K will be just like her and momma KB. But dammit KB should be alive here and doing it herself.

I just want to tell you a little about Kelsey. 4:05

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[Seattle1]

Wondering if Kelsey had a will?

We know KB was savvy enough to immediately transfer her condo into a Washington State LLC within weeks of purchase, there's no reason to believe that KB did not have a will, and probably a trust too-- especially as a single mother.

 

[Hatch]

The media has correctly portrayed Frazee as a bad guy, IMHO. Clearly, these people believed his lies. The truth will prevail. MOO

No wonder PF has kept silent since his arrest, he was a bureau of information in his calls to CB.