CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #40 *ARREST*

[The Night Watchman]

ITA. The question on my mind, is what was the reason for such a deep-rooted hatred?

Good question. I started typing a reply and realized that I wrote about this in a January 15th post-

Why hatred?

In a hypothetical situation with an unknown cast, a breakup involving a child can turn into a vicious power struggle. In reality, the mother holds more cards than the father. This can be handled different ways, but one way is for the mother to play the cards hard. Control when the father sees the child, emasculate him in different ways- lack of success, housing arrangements, parenting skills etc. And potentially threaten to move away and take his child. Taking a child out of state is more complicated, but this man may not know this.

Some "masculine" men who think they have been in control all their lives, may not handle this gracefully. A man could develop hatred from feeling demeaned and belittled, and feeling they have no recourse in the struggle. And sometimes they just refuse to lose; when they are used to controlling and "winning", no matter how trivial the previous battle victories in their life actually were.

 

[MyBelle]

I do believe yesterday it was said that PF wanted KK to take the stuff back to Idaho with Kelsey's remains (I don't have an exact quote or wording for this, sorry, it's my wording) and Krystal refused to bring them, so he cleaned them up himself and disposed of them. Again, this was well planned out.

But Krystal claimed she was too scairt to refuse his orders! She can't have it both ways.

Nor do I believe he then decided to incinerate KB in the front yard while his mother was inside. I think only the tote and bags of stuff KK took from the condo were burned.

JMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

They would have excavated that site manually, and done the sifting there.

We do know they found plastic, but it perplexes me that they didn’t mention bone fragments.

If you find one, you should find the other.

Perhaps they did.

As he performed the burning in a hundred gallon trough, he could have sifted out specific items to take somewhere else to dispose of and then turned the remains of the ashes on his property?

Perhaps that is the reason he utilized the trough is to contain certain items so he could be able to remove them later?

Also, if anyone here has burned plastic, you know that is very very toxic black smoke when that happens. That is very interesting that they were doing something so toxic to the air. Inhale that stuff and you will be ill.

 

[MemPat]

This is disturbing. I think perhaps the police erred slightly in assuming that KB was only missing. This is another instance where we are paradoxically lucky we have KK's testimony about the two blood spots that CBI missed. The local police probably don't investigate a lot of complicated scenes like this, but I would think the CBI/FBI teams should not have missed anything - particularly when the two spots KK pointed out weren't somewhere easy-to-miss like the underside of a chair or the crevices of hardwood flooring - they were on a light switch and on the fireplace.

Am I remembering correctly? IIRC, LE didn't report finding blood until after KB's folks found it in several places in the bathroom. Even then, I worried that that evidence would be successfully challenged: there was mention that it could have been KB's period (on a towel rack? and multiple other places in the bathroom? I don't think so....). There's also mention of another male's DNA and 'commingled' blood. That undermined that evidence, and I fully expected someone on PF's side to hint that KB's parents could have somehow tampered with the evidence.

KK's testimony is much more damning, IMHO. A lot of what she's saying may come down to 'he said, she said', but she named two spots with blood splatters that LE had missed. The defense is going to have a hard time arguing those blood splatters away, IMHO.

Are we sure KK told LE about the places to look for blood? That's the only way I would believe she saved evidence to catch PF.

I thought KB's family saw the blood spots while they were staying there,

 

[gitana1]

Not exactly what I said. They typically lay out their most compelling evidence at a pre-limb. But there will be more that supports the entire case. A good example of this is the case of a little Cooper Harris. You can see the difference between what was presented at pre-limb and what was eventually seen a trial. There was some crucial evidence at trial that wasn't in the pre-limb that seem to really nail it. And it was a video o typically lay out there most compelling evidence at a pre-limb. But there will be more that supports the entire case. A good example of this is the case of a little Cooper Harris. You can see the difference between what was presented at pre-lim and what was eventually seen a trial.

What a jury actually sees as opposed to what a judge hears is powerful.

Sorry for the typos here. Embarrassing. I was using voice to text. It's "prelim" not prelimb! No "limbs" are involved in the hearing!

 

[Dave F.]

The blindfold candle guessing game is weird to me. I mean, were PF and KB truly this close and playful in Nov? He must have really acted and played her. I thought they were in an ‘exchange the baby’ phase. It’s weird to let your ... fiance?.... who you are having issues with blindfold and play with you. Totally agree it sounds like a woman’s idea.

When confessing their crime, killers often describe their deed in terms that they think will make it sound less heartless and cold, often making the victim seem innocently gullible. I don't think we'll ever know the truth about it. IMO

 

[Herat]

Keep in mind, she had been up with him very late the night before - checking on his cows and later, making a run to the pharmacy to get him something to soothe his alleged ulcer. I think she told her mother she didn't get home until the wee hours of the morning. Also from what she told her mother Thanksgiving morning, plans were kind of up in the air - probably because she was waiting to hear how PF's tummy was feeling. So if he showed up later and told her thanks, he was feeling better thanks to the meds, and he had a little surprise for her, I don't think she would have suspected a thing.

Yes, and I think the “ulcer” was all a fake story to garner her trust and sympathy, likely talking about T-Day plans, and she would allow him into the home and not be in any defensive posture the next day.

All the while he is pretending to be sick and KB is putting her attention and kindness into his well-being, he is mentally finalizing his timetable for T-Day and when to call KK after the deed.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yeah burning any type of plastic is really noticeable and makes a terrible black poisonous smoke. I live out in the country and do a lot of burning of mainly fallen tree limbs and it only takes 1 mistake of putting in plastics to learn to never do that again.

So surely SF would wonder and ask what the heck he was burning if she saw the type of smoke that the burning tote would have given off.

She could easily take the stand and dispute this if not true.
MOO

 

[gitana1]

Thanks, g! Sorry if my post seemed to question you, it wasn't meant that way at all. Sometimes I like to play pretend like I know anything about law.

No I didn't see a post from you about that!

 

[InvSmith]

Bless you for these words.

 

[girlhasnoname]

How was PF able to get a metal trough, (I'm guessing this means something like a stock tank) out in front of Mommy's front door, load it with a plastic tote containing KB's body, add wood and an accelerant, and light a fire without Mommy seeing anything?

He wasn't IMO and I hope SF has to answer for that.

 

[MemPat]

Keep in mind, she had been up with him very late the night before - checking on his cows and later, making a run to the pharmacy to get him something to soothe his alleged ulcer. I think she told her mother she didn't get home until the wee hours of the morning. Also from what she told her mother Thanksgiving morning, plans were kind of up in the air - probably because she was waiting to hear how PF's tummy was feeling. So if he showed up later and told her thanks, he was feeling better thanks to the meds, and he had a little surprise for her, I don't think she would have suspected a thing.

I just keep thinking about KB out in the middle of the night with Baby K.

Even if she left K sleeping in the car while she looked after the cows, KB had to wake her up to go in for the prescription, right?

The whole scenario just seems so odd. Why couldn't the baby have stayed at the ranchette with PF and/or his mom?

Did I miss something?

 

[MassGuy]

Are we sure KK told LE about the places to look for blood? That's the only way I would believe she saved evidence to catch PF.

I thought KB's family saw the blood spots while they were staying there,

#70 in the arrest affadavit. She told them several locations where there was blood.

 

[gitana1]

He may have been abusive towards her, but she might not have seen it that way. She was out late the night before helping him with cattle. She also ran and got him medicine. She may have been planning to have Thanksgiving dinner with him. And she apparently let him blindfold her to play a candle scent guessing game.

That doesn’t seem to me like she feared him.

Good points.

 

[Ccging]

That implies the police would have been proactive and I'm not sold on that. Most I've know, heck all I've known, have been extremely reactive.

Agree, but all she had to do was show them the text messages back and forth, I think that may have at least sparked their interest.

She could have pushed the issue, if she wanted to. No harm in at least trying to save a life, she didn’t try.

 

[Seattle1]

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but in the final seconds of the KOAA TV drone video taken after the first search of PF's ranch, there is a corral located well below the dug up area that looks to have a dark circular mark, and about ten feet away is a round metal trough like is described. Perhaps by "scooped up" KKL meant that he picked it up with a loader, and set it in the back of his pickup truck.
If this is the spot she decribed, an open fire could certainly be seen from the porch of the house, but not with any clarity through the trees.
Drone video shows area where investigators searched Frazee property

Credit @Dave F. post regarding possible "burn" site.

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[gitana1]

I noticed that he was very vague about that. He said that it was sometime after 2:30. But that could have been 10 at night. He wasn't any help in nailing the time frame down. In my opinion.

True. Estranged or not I feel his family circled the wagons.

 

[ajaylee]

Are we sure KK told LE about the places to look for blood? That's the only way I would believe she saved evidence to catch PF.

I thought KB's family saw the blood spots while they were staying there,

Two different reports. KB's family saw traces of blood in a couple places in the bathroom and possibly (can't recall exactly) in the crevices of the hardwood flooring.

KK told LE that she deliberately left blood spots, one on the fireplace (mortar, I think) and one by or on a light switch (?). LE confirmed this.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I tried really really hard to believe kk wasn't totally involved, but I was wrong for sure. My random thoughts here.
1) Disgusting that PF played a game with kb....to sniff and guess the candle scents, etc. The whole thing is totally demented. I suppose if she had the sweater over her head she wouldn't scream (before getting hit) and alert the neighbors. He is truly a wolf in sheep's clothing.
2) And KK...something is very wrong with her too. To almost murder someone 3 times. Maybe she didn't do the crime because she wanted pf to do it. He'd get life (if caught) and not her.
3) And SF, what did she think pf was burning? [I actually had a DREAM this week that I turned my son in for some (unknown) wrongdoing. I freaked out in the DREAM, but I did it anyways. Obviously I'm emotionally caught up in all this].
Soooo...didn't sf ask him what he was burning?
4) The brother could have been told by pf as to what he did since the brother was with pf a couple times after the murder, and it seems he told pf to get a lawyer. How about just suggesting coming clean and do a *CW.
5) How did LE miss the blood? It didn't show up with luminosity, or whatever the word is? Who was in charge of it. CBI? Maybe they thought pf did it, but because ît was SO clean they didn't think it was done with bloodshed.
Does lay people need to come in to future crime scenes to help LE out? Oy vey (don't really know what that means but it sounded appropriate).
6) Thankful we got answers, but it's shocking, even for those who expected the worst. You don't usually get this much detail in crimes because the perp doesn't usually want the facts out.
*Chris Watts guilty plea

Iirc, the first time the crime scene people went there it was during the day. It was only on the later date they went at night, which we saw them bringing out articles.

Remember the Watts case? They also did their search at night.

I assume it is because of the luminal and the blue star. Luminal negative might be just do to it did not work well in dim light and it was not completely dark? Then again, a bathroom should always be completely dark by just closing the door?

They did say in the arrest affidavit that blood was found with BlueStar, and was luminol negative.

NCJRS Abstract - National Criminal Justice Reference Service


Bluestar Forensic's most obvious advantage over luminol was its ability to produce a visible reaction without requiring complete darkness. In dim lighting, luminol was measurably less intense. At crime scenes where establishing complete darkness is not possible, Bluestar

 

[MemPat]

I think of this from a physiological standpoint. If you observe PF's demeanor on T.V. prior and after arrest he is extremely low key. His speed of speech, eye movement and mannerism. Even when confronted by reporters he is very consistent. My point is that on Thanksgiving after murdering KB to think he would mildly sit down for dinner would be unthinkable for most of our systems. We just couldn't hold it together but obviously his body can. It is something to think about.

Sniffed too much glue. Explains all the shortcomings of PF's brain. He's going to fit in well making license plates at the prison.