CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #41 *ARREST*

[MemPat]

I'm with MassGuy and Gitana on this. MOO

Me too but only if his name is pronounced "Mass-Hi" (as in Hee tana).

 

[MyBelle]

her friend dobbed KK in for borrowing her car AND she sent her off with a LOADED gun and the gun came back minus a bullet and in wrong location.....
KK also had KBs gun in her possession and disposed of.
such a huge point but yet doesn't seem to have any or much relevance to the narrative.

I think it has plenty of relevance because of PF's "theory" that KB would commit suicide with her own gun. The defense will point out the missing bullet is from a gun in KK's control, not PF.

JMO

 

[AvaGrace]

OK. Well, he didn't choose to do it. He may have doubted that he would be able to, or thought it was possible she'd get away. Or maybe never considered it. The bat method was foolproof.

I agree. I don't think PF even considered it. He was used to beating or hitting animals in the past, he just followed his usual routine/habit. He is a very abusive person who seems to like to just punch/hit in response to his anger.

 

[GordianKnot]

Me too but only if his name is pronounced "Mass-Hi" (as in Hee tana).

MemPat, it is both pronounced and spelled "Massy." JMO.

 

[1mtroyal]

That is DEFINITELY going to BE his defense. Assuming that the defense can't find holes in the technology to make it possible that KK was there in WP herself on the 22nd.

I was surprised the defense was unable to poke many holes in the prosecution at the hearing. And some of their attempts indicated PF was at the scene "did the nurse actually see the body in the tote?" (PF knew that the body was not exposed) IMO

 

[gitana1]

I agree with this too. Having no prior experience with beating someone to death, he may have severely underestimated how bloody it would be. A horrible thought I can't get away from is the fact that there was blood in several rooms. Maybe she wasn't unconscious after the first blow and he had to chase her. And after that ordeal and moving the body, he decided KK had to get her butt down and clean it up.

Chills me to the bone to think of these two. I half-hope she is found to be lying and serves her full sentence, but that would most likely mean PF gets off or receives a lighter sentence. It's tough to know what to root for.

I root for the murderer to be charged and convicted of murder. Without KK's cooperation and plea deal there would be no murder charges.

Not directed at you, but generally it's interesting. There is often a greater outcry when women are involved in such crimes than there is when men are involved, even when the male had a greater and more sinsiter role.

Apparently this is because the cultural gender construct of women is as nurturer. Especially mothers. When women are involved in stuff like this, society panics because it shifts out worldview. It shifts our conception of gender roles.
The myth of the she-devil: why we judge female criminals more harshly

What we know indicates PF murdered KB. And while KK was heavily involved, she did not commit the actual murder. And yet I almost sense a rage so great about her and her involvement that it's almost as if it would be okay if PF got away with it just as long as KK didn't get a nice plea deal.

 

[heartgoesout]

I wonder if KK was in CO on Thanksgiving.

Just kidding.

Evidence clearly stated above.

Can you provide a link to KK's phone records and where abouts on 11/22 and prior? We know about the other pings.
But right here right now if you had to decide the fate of Kelsey's justice would you be willing without a doubt to say you know where KK was on 11/22?

 

[MyBelle]

I believe I read they found some on the stone near the fire place, but correct me if I'm wrong

KK told LE she intentionally left alone some blood on the fireplace. She may have planted it there.

JMO

 

[lindaromas]

I recall there being some mention that in the search of his ranch house, LE found some "custody papers" that had not been filed. I'd like to know more about that. Were these actual pleadings/motions that an attorney drafted but were never filed, or just something that PF had written himself? I have not felt that custody was the prime motive here because it just didn't make that much sense. With the situation as it was, he had a pretty good arrangement with KB. If she was considering moving, or something else was going on, PF could have made a very good argument/case in court that HE should be awarded primary custody of the girl. If he had talked to an attorney he should have known that. But maybe he hadn't talked to an attorney and just assumed that KB could take the girl and get custody.

I have some speculations on these points but not privy to speak of here.

 

[Inthedetails]

Can you provide a link to KK's phone records and where abouts on 11/22 and prior? We know about the other pings.
But right here right now if you had to decide the fate of Kelsey's justice would you be willing without a doubt to say you know where KK was on 11/22?

No I don't have phone records. No, I cannot say anything without a doubt.

I was just having a moment of levity.

jmo

 

[MemPat]

She exchanged her truck with MG for VW.

Her phone pinged the route as she drove all night.

She was seen on surveillance early am at Conoco in Florissant when she said she picked up the keys to kb condo. This from Agent testimony.

I imagine DA has proof of fuel stops on 800 mile trek, and we know she likes fast food. She had to void along the way and she’s no roadside squatter. There will be evidence. FBI was onboard then and knew she was lying early so they probably had this before her DA agreement.

The proof at trial placing kk in Colorado on 11/24 and not before will be irrefutable.

MO

I don't think I've ever heard the term, "roadside squatter". The terms you learn on WS are endless!

 

[Teche]

Did KB’s parents know that she voluntarily entered a 2-week treatment program for depression?

 

[1mtroyal]

I kind of wonder if the sweater over the head was also to keep the blood from going all over the place and she managed to get the sweater off. And I wonder if the sweater might have softened the blows, and backfired? A tooth went flying, the sweater must have been off at that point.

 

[lindaromas]

I’m guessing part of the reason for the forklift is trying to get it down from the high haystack. IIRC PF used a ladder to get it up there (so many details to remember). Does anyone else remember this? Regardless, Kelsey was a petite lady so it shouldn't have been challenging for him to lift her body in the tote onto his truck, especially because he’s a big strong cowboy (insert eye roll).

I read that also, I'm assuming he wanted to use the forklift to bring it down because of possibly being excess bodily fluids and stench.

 

[Hatfield]

However, what if PF wasn’t wielding the bat. KK is repeating what he told her he did. But, what if SF finished what KK and PF kept starting and didn’t have the courage to complete. What if PF was the flunky, KK was the patsy and SF was the mastermind and the only one who really cared about getting custody of the baby enough to do what that would take.
Now you have reasonable doubt with PF, KK has her plea deal and they have no verifiable proof of the part SF played. Jmho

My goodness. I never even thought of that possibility. Even if not true it sure gives PF a couple different ways to try to spin his defense if he is willing to throw others under the bus like is being done to him by KK.

One thing that always happens in the movies is one person throws a hood over someones head while another person does the beating.

 

[gitana1]

I wonder if she was caught on video the day she came to clean? She parked elsewhere and walked to the house? Do I have that right?

jmo

I don't believe she was because had she been captured on surveillance that day that would've been mentioned. Not just where her phone was pinging. Which is a more complex way of locating her.

Maybe surveillance wasn't working that day. We know it worked on Thanksgiving. And regardless, evidence and lack of evidence and common sense shows she was not there on 11-22.

 

[ajaylee]

Thanks, but once again that is PF and KB's phones, I'm looking for KRYSTAL's phone records.

Edit/add: They may not be released to the public yet. I'll wait and think on this some more. Pretty sad as I sit here trying to think as diabolically as this crew has been.

Don't forget that KK also had a burner phone. IIRC, she gave KB her number when she went to the condo with the coffee.

She also got a new phone - she told her ex-husband that she lost hers somewhere. I assume LE still has the call log from the original phone, but do they have the actual texts? photos if she didn't back them up somewhere?

 

[NCTeacher]

See, I keep thinking about cliffs. Kelsey was doing stuff with him, driving around, like checking on cattle. If he's planning this murder so methodically, wouldn't you think he'd take her for a ride and do something like that rather than create a murder scene so easily exposed with forensic techniques? Kelsey trusted him. He could have gotten her away from home, very easily. KK could not have. She stalked Kelsey at home.

I'm assuming that the call from PF to KK, on Thanksgiving, shows KK in Idaho, right? I didn't read that. Only that he called her number. She could have been anywhere. Where are the records showing where KK's phone was pinging on the 21st and 22nd? Just because her family says she was in Idaho doesn't mean squat. Where the proof on where she was? And, btw, what about that burner phone? When and where was that used? Was she carrying her own phone and the burner phone?

This is one of the things that boggles my mind. He planned it for months. Why would he take HUGE risks in pulling this off, when there are numerous, countless, ways he could've done this to make it look like an accident, not caused a huge mess to clean up, and not leave her home looking like Amityville for 36 hours?

 

[Jackielee09]

All I can say is the “rodeo queen” makes me sick! Patrick obviously is a freaking sicko. But THAT woman could have prevented KB murder. They could have done a sting operation.
Makes me so sick. She got a sweetheart deal but she deserves to be locked up too.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't believe she was because had she been captured on surveillance that day that would've been mentioned. Not just where her phone was pinging. Which is a more complex way of locating her.

Maybe surveillance wasn't working that day. We know it worked on Thanksgiving. And regardless, evidence and lack of evidence and common sense shows she was not there on 11-22.

Right, I'm talking about the clean-up day. I wonder if she entered the home from the back to avoid being seen? No real answers, I know, just the logistics of everything is something I like to figure out.

jmo