CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

[Elle*Bee]

I guess that is why I am disgusted; there should not be a system in place where such a dangerous criminal would have stronger hand than the DA. Call me crazy, but I prefer a judicial system to be just. And letting someone like her walk is not seeing justice served. (I am thankful that it resulted in getting baby K as far away from the F family as quickly as possible. ) MOO.

I agree, but what if LE *knew* what happened but didn’t have the evidence to prove it and unfortunately had to make a deal with the devil (KKL)? What if, hypothetically, without KKL’s testimony, charges against PF would not stick? I hate thinking that.

 

[MassGuy]

It really bothers me we have so much lacking surveillance camera proof of those that went in and out over the few days.

They were lucky to have any at all.

Fortunately, they caught PF in the lie of all lies; returning to the house after he claimed to have last seen Kelsey.

 

[Esma]

We will never have an autopsy report on Kelsy Berroth.

WITH ALL APOLOGIES TO THE BERROTH FAMILY:

Right now, we only have the sworn testimony of KKL to describe what PF claimed to do her and what KKL found when she arrived. People - this is tenuous stuff to convict someone on. And initially calculated, but then his rage caused him to lose control.

But, from what KKL described, this was a very savage attack.

Smacking someone on the back of the head can cause severe internal brain injuries but doesn;t cause exanguination and huge blood spatters, under chairs, on walls and ceilings.

Warning: Graphic stuff ahead
IMHO. He pummeled her many times with a baseball bat with huge force. He didn't just hit her in the back of the head - maybe that was the blow to stun her. She likely was unconscious with the first couple of blows

He obviously pummeled her face enough to knock out teeth. To destroy her face. This is a real psychopathologic sign of overkill. He would likely have smashed her chest, breaking ribs and skin. IMHO, he likely hit her more than 20 times. Breaking many of her bones. The amount of blood described says to me he lost control.

I'm sorry to be so harsh in being descriptive, but He is the killer that needs to never be free again. KKL is just a fool

Berreth family.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Would we be saying he's just as culpable or even more so?

PF is the murderer. KK is not. No matter how people feel about her.

I think morally she is just as culpable. It's like a pack of wolves-which wolf is worse? The one who corralled the prey? The one who went for the jugular? The one who consumed some of its flesh after the kill? The pack is responsible, just like this murderous team is responsible. I respect that you look at it from a different point of view, being trained in the law, but others, like me, might have a different perspective. MOO.

 

[Esma]

They were lucky to have any at all.

Fortunately, they caught PF in the lie of all lies; returning to the house after he claimed to have last seen Kelsey.

That’s a plus for sure- but it’s very unfortunate the rest of the story can’t be confirmed via video.

 

[QueenBofOB]

I don't think anybody has minimized the evil and vile creature we all know as Patrick.

I really think these sexist remarks are too much. First of all, PF isn't talking, his mother plead the 5th. The only one that talked was Krystal, and we're discussing her just because of all the information that came out during the hearing. She's the one that did a plea deal or she wasn't gonna talk! How do we minimize her participation in this to be considered sexist? I guess I am a female sexist because I think the both of them are evil, trashy varmints? Where is the outrage from all of these people worrying about sexism here, that a woman was willing to try to murder another woman three times- she hadn't even met Kelsey, from what I can see. She was going to try and murder an innocent mother of a baby! She could have warned her and saved her, but no, she kept coming back to try and do the deed, eventually Patrick did it- how noble of him!

If PF tried to claim his innocence or started describing the crime he committed, you'd see this board blow up with anger and probably some bannings for a day or two to calm things down. Oh we are outraged at Patrick! We so want to pick apart his side of the story! Unfortunately, we can't because the sniveling weasel won't talk!

I read a few comments that Kelsey was possibly wanting to hurry and marry, but this guy was stalling. I am seriously wondering, if it wasn't that SHE had cold feet and possibly wondered if/ knew that, this creep was some sort of gold digger. It sounds like she comes from a well-off family and she was very successful in her own right. He was still living at home, with mother.

 

[skyedaze]

But there are people not yet fully believing that PF did the actual murder. Fully involved and maybe the murderer, but some are skeptical still if he did it.

Well then I guess those people will have to wait for the trial.

We will never have an autopsy report on Kelsy Berroth.

WITH ALL APOLOGIES TO THE BERROTH FAMILY:

Right now, we only have the sworn testimony of KKL to describe what PF claimed to do her and what KKL found when she arrived. People - this is tenuous stuff to convict someone on. And initially calculated, but then his rage caused him to lose control.

But, from what KKL described, this was a very savage attack.

Smacking someone on the back of the head can cause severe internal brain injuries but doesn;t cause exanguination and huge blood spatters, under chairs, on walls and ceilings.

Warning: Graphic stuff ahead
IMHO. He pummeled her many times with a baseball bat with huge force. He didn't just hit her in the back of the head - maybe that was the blow to stun her. She likely was unconscious with the first couple of blows

He obviously pummeled her face enough to knock out teeth. To destroy her face. This is a real psychopathologic sign of overkill. He would likely have smashed her chest, breaking ribs and skin. IMHO, he likely hit her more than 20 times. Breaking many of her bones. The amount of blood described says to me he lost control.

I'm sorry to be so harsh in being descriptive, but He is the killer that needs to never be free again. KKL is just a fool

with her baby just a few feet away....

 

[MassGuy]

I think morally she is just as culpable. It's like a pack of wolves-which wolf is worse? The one who corralled the prey? The one who went for the jugular? The one who consumed some of its flesh after the kill? The pack is responsible, just like this murderous team is responsible. I respect that you look at it from a different point of view, being trained in the law, but others, like me, might have a different perspective. MOO.

I absolutely agree that they are both disgusting human beings.

Here’s the thing though, remove KK from the situation, Kelsey is likely still dead.

Remove PF from this, and Kelsey is absolutely alive.

This plot seems to have its first known origins in August, as custody documents were found at the Frazee residence.

At some point, it appears that PF realized that he wasn’t likely to succeed with whatever his ultimate goal was.

Hence the murder plot.

So both of them are culpable, but PF is the most culpable.

He drove this plot; he swung the bat.

He ended her life.

 

[Esma]

It will be interesting to see what the defense dredges up to attack KK’s story. They will be in a pickle to do so without implicating their client. I have no doubt it will be a he did it she did it battle- and more people will be pulled in to the story that unfolds.

 

[skyedaze]

I think morally she is just as culpable. It's like a pack of wolves-which wolf is worse? The one who corralled the prey? The one who went for the jugular? The one who consumed some of its flesh after the kill? The pack is responsible, just like this murderous team is responsible. I respect that you look at it from a different point of view, being trained in the law, but others, like me, might have a different perspective. MOO.

What is criminal legally is not always what is considered wrong morally. That's the problem. While they may not seem separate, they are.
What is immoral is not necessarily illegal. Ask any politician.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

And you may in fact be proven right. I just tend to believe they have a lot more training and knowledge of the case than I do. Additionally I always try to remember that there was a lot they wouldn't have even known if not for KK telling them. And they need that testimony at trial to even be able to use the most minute details. Many of the things the prosecution found and could eventually confirm was bc of what kk told them. And they need her testimony to even be able to use it at trial. Throw that out and its a No body case solely relying on cell phone pings IMO.....The FBI, CBI and local LE aren't naive, dumb etc. they are experienced professionals and not an amateur sleuth like me who just likes to try to put the puzzle together based on the few pieces that they choose to release to me....MOO

Absolutely true. We are not privy to all of the information, and we are certainly not professionals (well some are). We really have no say in how they do their jobs, nor should we, except that that do them honestly and transparently. Everything I have said has come from a gut reaction of disgust based on the the details that came out last week-they were shockingly horrifying. I pray that the DAs actions came from a much more objective and logical place. MOO.

 

[GordianKnot]

I absolutely agree that they are both disgusting human beings.

Here’s the thing though, remove KK from the situation, Kelsey is likely still dead.

Remove PF from this, and Kelsey is absolutely alive.

This plot seems to have its first known origins in August, as custody documents were found at the Frazee residence.

At some point, it appears that PF realized that he wasn’t likely to succeed with whatever his ultimate goal was.

Hence the murder plot.

So both of them are culpable, but PF is the most culpable.

He drove this plot; he swung the bat.

He ended her life.

BBM:

Superb post!

Fantastic points.

 

[MassGuy]

That’s a plus for sure- but it’s very unfortunate the rest of the story can’t be confirmed via video.

It won’t matter.

Very few murders have video that cinches the case.

This one has video that proves a lie, and a damning one.

This case will be built on circumstantial evidence; a lot of it.

KK’s testimony, phone and text records, location data, witness statements, video, physical evidence, financial transactions, and God knows what else.

The prosecution just dropped 3300 pages of discovery on the defense.

Those aren’t blank pages.

 

[Crooked Chicken]

There is nothing to indicate KK's ex knew PF or had any knowledge. He is off limits.

Speculative opinion must be based on some known fact, not just a hunch.

Agree. The only thing I've read from a legal standpoint is in the affidavit, line item 48.

Since SF was sequestered from the court room after pleading the 5th, I wonder how surprised or shocked she was to read the testimony that happened that day upon her returning home.

I would love to see more comments from friends, family and acquaintances of PF and KK to get their perspective on things.

 

[Seattle1]

Do you think the DA is purposely downplaying KK’s involvement by calling it a “solicitation” just to get her testimony? Because obviously, IMO, it was a conspiracy. I hope that decision doesn't end up biting the DA in the butt!

"Solicitation" is a charge that goes against the solicitor -- PF, and not against person solicited. The argument of downplaying KK involvement doesn't follow for that charge.

However, if PF/KK were charged as co-conspirators, I have no doubt that KK's would have flipped on PF (like she already has) and the result the same -- KK charged lesser than deserved because prosecutor needs her testimony to secure PF's first degree murder conviction.

Also, to my knowledge, the DA has not dropped the robbery charge against PF which is felony murder, and makes PF eligible for death penalty.

MOO

 

[k-mac]

I still don’t understand her her her not going to LE.
And she had more than three opportunities to do that. But I get what you’re saying about the other people, they were not enamored of him. And yet they still did nothing.

bbm
I think it tells us plenty why she didn't go to LE jewelsmac.
why she then proceeded to clean up and cover up a murder, then go get a feed and on and on and on.
and it had nothing to do with 'being scared" for clarity.

moo

 

[ab01]

The funny thing is many seem so quick to jump on the prosecutors in this case.

All we know is the limited amount of information the The State chose to disclose in a preliminary hearing. I believe they have much more evidence and it will all be laid out at trial. But trying to determine weather there is reasonable doubt to find PF not guilty based solely on the information we have can't be done in a rational manner. The State proved that what they showed was enough to proceed with the case, and thats all they needed to do IMO.

 

[Esma]

The funny thing is many seem so quick to jump on the prosecutors in this case.

All we know is the limited amount of information the The State chose to disclose in a preliminary hearing. I believe they have much more evidence and it will all be laid out at trial. But trying to determine weather there is reasonable doubt to find PF not guilty based solely on the information we have can't be done in a rational manner. The State proved that what they showed was enough to proceed with the case, and thats all they needed to do IMO.

It’s just that many believe that KK is a diabolical liar telling a big manufactured story.

 

[ab01]

It’s just that many believe that KK is a diabolical liar telling a big manufactured story.

I believe that the State will have facts that supports her final version of events.MOO

 

[LietKynes]

I am not convinced that custody was the only motivating factor in his desire to get rid of KB. If it was, that didn’t come from him. It came from someone else who wanted custody of the baby. I think there’s more to the motive — just a gut feeling.

Something like the Rhoden murders ?
Maybe more people than just PF wanted this little girl ?
But that's what custody arrangements are for. you don't murder over it; fgs !

If someone does kill over custody --it's a good way to ensure you might never see the child again.
Guess some people didn't think this through !!!!

Sorry that the prosecutors had to make a deal with the (she) devil. But it "ain't over 'till it's over... ." and all that.
Plus, I think karma's going to be a B. for KK. Many people who are rooting for PF-- starting with his family that show up for hearings and various loyal friends -- - are going to be furious with KK.
She'll not walk away from this without baggage; imo.