CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

[ab01]

I don’t think he needed anything to alter his moods.

It appears that he is already quite temperamental enough.

Somewhere there is a photo floating around of PF in his truck being pressed by a reporter. The rage on his face told me everything I needed to know about pf. I think it’s on the very first thread.

 

[Hatch]

@Tippy Lynn

Your wonderful timeline has a problem in the section below. Unfortunately the tweets during Prelim also don't exactly match the AW. But that's not as important. Here's the problematic section of the timeline in italics:

PF was seen on Walmart & Williams Furniture Store surveillance, and on Arlo camera by KB’s neighbor caught KB, baby K and PF at KB’s door at 1:34 p.m.

*

KB, baby K and PF were actually all seen on neighbor's surveiilance camera "around 1:00PM". Ref:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
State gives him another still of that neighbor’s surveillance. He says it shows Berreth, Kaylee, Frazee & her flowers out front of Kelsey’s door around 1 p.m.

*

The AW item#12 states that an individual matching PF's description was later seen entering KB's residence at approximately 1324. ( 1:24PM )
Ref: AW pdf

Tweets during the Prelim state 1:34PM , just a ten minute difference. Ref:

Ashley Franco‏ @AshleyKKTV 1m1 minute ago
Commander says#PatrickFrazee was seen going toward #KelseyBerreth townhome. A neighbors home surveillance has pictures of#PatrickFrazee at Kelsey’s door. That was around 1:34 pm the day she went missing.

*

PF was at the WP Walmart 1254 - 1317 per their surveillance camera. Ref: AW item #11

*

The wording in @Tippy Lynn timeline blurs 2 of PF's 3 appearances at KB door on 11/22 into a single event (the around 1:00PM with KB&baby, and the 1:24/1:34PM event with PF alone).

Deleted : checking some facts

 

[MassGuy]

And I would expect the lawyers to agree in advance on the questions asked by the technician..

It wasn't in KK or LE's best interest to leave that wide open though nothing from a lie detector is allowed at trial, right?

Correct. It can’t be brought up.

I’ve seen polygraphs done in several crimes where money is involved.

A Ponzi scheme suspect might be required to pass a polygraph, that proves he has divulged all of his assets to the prosecution.

If he passes, then the deal proceeds.

Something like that could have happened here, although we have no idea if it did.

It’s possible though.

 

[skyedaze]

I can't see him making any great effort to get rid of any remains from the fire. I just can't see him making any great effort to do anything.

 

[MemPat]

IMO PF looked at the CW case and tried (unsuccessfully) to avoid some of the mistakes he made. The only thing he did right was shut his mouth and not speak to the press and immediately get an attorney. He also made sure there was no body to be found. But he was dumb enough to enlist the help of others and if he hadn’t perhaps he would have skated on this.

Did he follow CW’s method of putting what was left of her body in a mine shaft or other similar place? We have no idea. But I do think he looked at that case and decided he could do the same thing, Except he was incredibly stupid in many of the details. Why? Who knows, but I think part of it was total cowardice. Maybe to claim that others had murdered her or simply because he was too much of a coward to do it himself. In any case, he is a total monster and so are the people who helped him.

MOO

I love that cameras were part of the undoing of both these creeps.

I'll never forget the clip of CW seeing video of himself at the neighbor's house. Oops!

 

[Hatch]

I don’t think he needed anything to alter his moods.

It appears that he is already quite temperamental enough.

I do think it possible. I think anything and everything is possible and probable with PF and KK.

 

[Artis]

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for the ATF it is their specialty after all.

IMHO, no federal prosecutor wants to mess with this. Has she been charged with lying to the FBI? No. Why not? Because it's a waste of time when you use prosecution to advance certain agendas, none of which anything about this case serves.

 

[MassGuy]

2


@MassGuy ... I know anything is possible. But what do you think the odds are that KK really had more to say than she initially said at the time of her plea deal (forget all her lies prior to that). For example, at the time of her plea deal, she mentioned PF got rid of KB's remains either in a river or a landfill.... but as time went on, she either admitted to actually being there during the discarding of KB's remains and that was at a landfill or that PF told her he discarded KB's remains at a landfill??

As you said.... "Gotta be a reason for it"..... and to me, it's got to be a really good reason and one that LE has confidence in. Would that blow anything with her plea deal (I mean, she's not lying but she may have left information out) or would they give her yet more leniency because they MAY find some part of KB's remains.

This is one sick and twisted bizarre case which seriously has my head spinning. TIA

I don’t know what specific evidence is justifying the landfill search.

My guess, is that it’s not any additional information provided by KK.

Burning a body like that, requires many hours of constant, intense heat.

KK’s account, all but says that she left for Idaho before the process was done.

That rings true, based on when the burning started, and when she arrived home in Idaho.

Her account of what PF said he would do to the remains, was pretty vague.

As she wasn’t there when he dumped them, I’m not sure she knows specifically what he did.

I think something else, or a combination of things, has led them to that landfill.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

@Tippy Lynn

*** Take note this date was reported in error, and later corrected to September.

KK did NOT stop over in Greeley, Co during November trip to WP.

Thank you.
I updated the timeline to this:
September 2018

• KK made a trip to WP and stopped in Greeley over night.

 

[Gardener1850]

It does seem pretty lame, but have you seen Malad Gorge? That search could make the Fountain dump look easy. IMO

Did they find the keys in the gorge?

 

[Artis]

I'm not so sure about that.... but I have to believe that LE has a really darn good reason to start searching a specific landfill on Tues., lasting possibly up to 80 days. Leads me to think someone (possibly KK) gave them some kind of information that we have not seen/heard yet.

Perhaps but she did say a dump or a river. Dump could send them on a wild goose chase while she disposed of the remains in a river in Idaho. She said she refused to take the body buts she didn't say anything about cremated remains.

 

[gitana1]

Polygraphs are unreliable which is why they are inadmissible as evidence. There are also techniques for passing a poly.

In this case, LE said that they corroborated KK's claims by actually taking her to the townhouse, Nash Ranch, etc.

JMO

That doesn't mean one wasn't used. Of course that wouldn't come out at a prelim as they are indeed inadmissible.

 

[Stunned]

Not necessarily. If passing a lie detector was part of the plea deal then she could have had one.

ETA: Sorry @MassGuy, I see you already said this.

I know this is sexist, but IMO she is eviler than him. She is a woman and a mother. I find her too be a monster!

 

[MemPat]

I doubt it. She’s the reason that he’s behind bars, and the reason that he will likely spend the rest of his life there.

Even if she wanted to see him, he almost certainly wouldn’t want to see her.

He probably wants to do to her, what he did to Kelsey.

And KK can't be sure he won't make a friend who will one day get out and do a number on her with a bat.

What a way to live the rest of your life!

 

[Artis]

Yeah, I can’t find anything mentioned in court, that discusses MG’s gun or missing round.

The only discussion of a gun, was in regards to Kelsey’s.

It being brought up in the prelimary hearing, appears to be wrong.

At this stage, it also appears to be extraneous info and irrelevant in a prelim where the method of murder is claimed to have been a baseball bat.

Speaking of the bat, I have to share this to get it off my mind. Earlier, before the prelim, when discussions came up about PF's looks and his bad haircut, I looked at him and thought how didn't look particularly unattractive or off in any way and I thought there was something about him (build, stature) that reminded me of a major league pitcher. Then the bat info comes out and really bugs me that I had that thought. Ugh.

 

[Hatch]

I can't see him making any great effort to get rid of any remains from the fire. I just can't see him making any great effort to do anything.

Thank you for clarifying. Easy to understand how one would be suspicious though, with all the people who did know before,and after. Yet did nothing, or helped out.

 

[MemPat]

I wonder why she did not simply throw KB's phone in the gorge with the keys? It stopped pinging there so she must have shut it off or destroyed it at the gorge before returning to her house to burn it in the front yard. Why bother taking the evidence back to her house?

No geniuses in this story.

 

[ab01]

I know this is sexist, but IMO she is eviler than him. She is a woman and a mother. I find her too be a monster!

I disagreePF bashed the brains in of the mother of his child with a frickin baseball bat! Doesn’t get any worse than that imo

 

[ajaylee]

I don’t know what specific evidence is justifying the landfill search.

My guess, is that it’s not any additional information provided by KK.

Burning a body like that, requires many hours of constant, intense heat.

KK’s account, all but says that she left for Idaho before the process was done.

That rings true, based on when the burning started, and when she arrived home in Idaho.

Her account of what PF said he would do to the remains, was pretty vague.

As she wasn’t there when he dumped them, I’m not sure she knows specifically what he did.

I think something else, or a combination of things, has led them to that landfill.

(bolding mine)

At least that is what she says. She also says she had a headache and he gave her something for her headache and she took a rest. He had to let the remains cool enough to handle, but he had been very insistent up to this point that she be involved at every step of the cleanup. I wouldn't be surprised if she took her rest and when she got up, he had one last task for her before she headed home: the remains were 'scooped' and loaded and they went together to dispose of them.

Or, probably less likely, she took the remains and disposed of them on the way to Idaho. I'm slightly skeptical of this one because she was in her friend's car. I would think that was a bit too risky even for her.

IMHO.

 

[MassGuy]

(bolding mine)

At least that is what she says. She also says she had a headache and he gave her something for her headache and she took a rest. He had to let the remains cool enough to handle, but he had been very insistent up to this point that she be involved at every step of the cleanup. I wouldn't be surprised if she took her rest and when she got up, he had one last task for her before she headed home: the remains were 'scooped' and loaded and they went together to dispose of them.

IMHO.

I’d believe that, if the timing made sense.

I don’t think it does.

Everything she says, I treat with skepticism.

But I think it’s more probable than not, that he had to continue burning Kelsey’s remains for several hours after KK would have had to be on the road.

From what I have read, it is not a quick process.