CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

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  • #321
I don’t know what specific evidence is justifying the landfill search.

My guess, is that it’s not any additional information provided by KK.

Burning a body like that, requires many hours of constant, intense heat.

KK’s account, all but says that she left for Idaho before the process was done.

That rings true, based on when the burning started, and when she arrived home in Idaho.

Her account of what PF said he would do to the remains, was pretty vague.

As she wasn’t there when he dumped them, I’m not sure she knows specifically what he did.

I think something else, or a combination of things, has led them to that landfill.

Do you know the timeline on when they got back to the ranchette, after retrieving Kelsey's body from Nash ranch and when she left for Idaho? I was under the impression that she was there for the duration of the fire and someone posted about her taking a nap after.
 
  • #322
I just like anyone who uses the word, "juxtaposition", skyedaze.
did I spell it correctly? I'm a terrible typist...
 
  • #323
That’s what makes sense to us, but I think KK wanted to keep her cowboy around, rather than in prison. I’m not sure how KK could have been so infatuated with PF to be willing to come down three times and attempt to kill Kelsey, and even though she didn’t completely follow through, it appears she was still willing to help him with the coverup. I truly don’t believe she was fearful (nobody drives towards danger over and over again) - I think she wanted to help PF get rid of KB, as awful as that was. JMHO ...
I think she hated KB for being with,and having a baby with PF, for being gorgeous, petite, and her cute figure. kB didn't need a ton of make-up,or filtered pictures either.
MOO
 
  • #324
He actually sounds like a Tweaker to me. Angry all the time and what was up with being awake all nite on the Wed. before Thanksgiving? Very odd.
Or he could be just a bi-polar psychopath.
 
  • #325
I think she hated KB for being with,and having a baby with PF, for being gorgeous, petite, and her cute figure. kB didn't need a ton of make-up,or filtered pictures either.
MOO
basically...everything she was not or could not have. So shallow, but I think true in this case. And I think that's what his defense will be..KK did it because PF is so desirable and KK was a shallow jealous faded rodeo queen. (barf)
they are all so lame
 
  • #326
Do you know the timeline on when they got back to the ranchette, after retrieving Kelsey's body from Nash ranch and when she left for Idaho? I was under the impression that she was there for the duration of the fire and someone posted about her taking a nap after.
Actually, I’m not sure if we know when she left for Idaho.

It does sound like she was there for the duration of the fire, as one of the live reports from the courtroom, used the phrase “after the fire.”

The same applies though, whether she was napping or on the road——that she didn’t see what he did with the remains.

Whether that is true or not, there’s no way to know for sure.

But with all that she admitted to, I just can’t see her leaving that part out.
 
  • #327
  • #328
It does seem sexist. He spent how long fooling her into thinking they might have a future? He had a child with her. He beat her brains in while pretending she was going to guess candle scents. As her baby was nearby in another room.

I think of the innocence and vulnerability of KB. No family around. No friends nearby. Hopefully waiting and being strung along, thinking he really was her fiancée and they would make their family "official".

Probably being gaslighted. Having to go to a hospital for anxiety and depression as her dreams never materialized and she realized the trap of being away from friends and family in the state of a man who probably didn't love her, raising their child together. Likely not being accepted by his family. Definitely not his mother.

And yet she still hopes. She is alone on Thanskgiving morning with her baby. She gamely makes some cinnamon buns. Perhaps in an effort to be festive. Or hopeful that she will be invited to the family dinner.

But PF says they will celebrate together. So she at least won't be alone. She buys flowers, though, that afternoon. Still thinking she might have an opportunity to win over his recalcitrant mother, for whom I'm betting no woman is good enough for her baby boy.

He comes over. Asks her to play a fun game. She agrees. Allows herself to be blindfolded. Thinks it might be fun. And as she stands there with the father of her child nearby and her baby down the hall and waits for a scent that never comes, she suddenly experiences something very different. The man she hoped to marry and raise a family with just beat her head in with a blunt object. No candle scent. No fun. Just pain.

PF did that. Not KK. He did that to the mother of his child. To a woman who thought she was his fiancée.

The person who helped him clean up the scene and cover up the crime doesn't rise to the level of the evil of a person who betrayed the trust and took advantage of the vulnerability of the woman he knew and bore a child with.

I do think sexism is partially to blame for the steadfast determination to find KK guilty of murder.
^^ 5 ^ Stars for the hard truth :(
 
  • #329
@Tippy Lynn: where did the information about Greeley on your Nov. 23-24 timeline come from? Some believe it is an error. Thanks.

@TippyLynn,

Thanks for all that you do, I know it is so difficult to keep it all straight!

I think you said that you corrected it previously, but it did not get corrected to beginning of this thread?
 
  • #330
New term for me once again on WS - What in the world is a Tweaker (so I'll know one when I see one)?!
If you don't know then chances are you don't have to worry about seeing one!
Anyway I see someone has already answered.
In regard to PF staying up all night before the murder, I think the adrenaline alone would keep him going. He may have even planned on doing it that night, or morning. He knew he was about to finally follow through with his big plan to commit murder and he was likely all hyped up. He probably didn't crash until after the body was burned. Imo
 
  • #331
@Tippy Lynn: where did the information about Greeley on your Nov. 23-24 timeline come from? Some believe it is an error. Thanks.

It came from a tweet on the 19th. However, earlier today I was informed that KK's overnight stay in Greeley was actually in Sept. 2018. I updated the timeline today, but I haven't posted the updated timeline. :p
 
  • #332
@TippyLynn,

Thanks for all that you do, I know it is so difficult to keep it all straight!

You're welcome. I know it's not perfect, but at least we have something :D

Thanks to everyone for helping correct errors!!!
 
  • #333
  • KK brought gloves, a hair net, two trash bags, bleach, a white body suit (to keep things off her person) and booties (shoe covers). She brought those supplies from home, Slater says, because she recently moved into a new home and had them from painting her home. She said the hospital had the suit.
Ok, the only items that KK brought that I would use when painting my house are the trash bags and MAYBE the shoe covers (though I never have used those).

I have never used gloves, a hairnet, or bleach when painting. Anyone else?
 
  • #334
I know this is sexist, but IMO she is eviler than him. She is a woman and a mother. I find her too be a monster!

I don't think it's sexist. I think what's going on is that PF is being written off as the psychopath that he is while, since she didn't actually kill Kelsey, a greater expectation of decency is being put on KK, as though she's some kind of normal human being who might empathize as a mother. Well, forget that. She's a monster, too. If PF hadn't done it, perhaps on her next trip to Colorado, KK would have. She wanted to and made mind boggling moves in that direction. She's a dangerous person. He's worse since he did the killing but as to who is more evil, well, I think they're pretty equal. He seems rage driven but she seems more calculating. The solicitation stories come from her and for all we know, she initiated them. Maybe that's why he complained he was railroaded.
 
  • #335
It came from a tweet on the 19th. However, earlier today I was informed that KK's overnight stay in Greeley was actually in Sept. 2018. I updated the timeline today, but I haven't posted the updated timeline. :p
Thanks for keeping everything straight!!:)
 
  • #336
  • #337
Rage?

On a slightly related topic, interesting patterns regarding weapon or method choice. Someone stated earlier that a woman is much more likely to use a bat. That's sort of untrue. They tend to be more "distant" in their methods of killing and "cleaner" according to this study:

Gun use varies greatly depending on gender of perp and victim. If it's male on male, 72% of the homicides will be via gun. If it's male on female, that drops to 48.5 and 46.9 % of homicides involving females against females involve guns. Guns are still the preferred method of choice but not that homicide includes sudden killings that weren't planned.

Weapon and circumstances
Some of the largest gender differences are related to the weapon used to commit murder. Whereas both sexes employ firearms most often because of their accuracy and lethality, men tend to rely on guns more so than women. As shown in Table 3, nearly three-quarters of male offenders and nearly half of their female counterparts kill their victims with a firearm. Women often prefer more distant and cleaner means of committing murder. In fact, women are responsible for nearly 40% of homicides involving poison, drugs, drowning, and asphyxiation. Drowning and asphyxiations by women are especially prevalent in homicides of children. Two-thirds of infanticides (victims less than age 5) are committed by women (primarily mothers or step-mothers), and 80% of homicides of victims less than the age of 1 year implicate a female perpetrator.

Table 3. Incident Characteristics by Victim and Offender Sex, 2000–2015

Victim sex Offender sex
Male (%) Female (%) Male (%) Female (%)
Weapon
 Gun 72.3 48.5 69.5 46.9
 Knife 11.5 16.7 11.4 19.5
 Other 16.2 34.8 19.1 33.6
Total 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0



Who the killer kills also varies by gender with only 11% of female homicide victims being killed by a stranger.

Victim–offender relationship
Despite the sizable overrepresentation of males among homicide victims and especially offenders, the gender gap narrows substantially when the perpetrator and victim have a close relationship. Although the vast majority of homicides committed by men (81%) involve an acquaintance or stranger as victim, more than half of female perpetrators kill intimate partners or family members (Table 3). In terms of victimization, 30% of males but only 11% of females are killed by a stranger. Victim age interacts with gender in the prevalence of murders committed by intimate partners or family members. For child victims, the percentage killed by a family member is virtually identical for boys and girls and declines from 80% down to about 40% into early adolescence. From that age forward, murders committed by intimate partners begin to occur with the proportion of women being killed by someone close to them greatly outnumbering that of men (Fig. 7).

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vio.2017.0016
Thank you for this. I very much wanted to respond to the post saying that using a baseball bat to kill someone seemed to point to a woman, but I was too lazy to look for the research that was out there that shows the opposite is true. And I didn’t want to post facts relying only on my memory (because my memory could be actual statistics or it could be an Agatha Christie book)!
 
  • #338
I think KK will fight the publicity on this for the rest of her life.

The trial (if no PF plea) will happen in a couple of years while, in the meantime, every evidentiary hearing will make headlines.

After the trial there will surely be a book (oh, I miss Ann Rule!) and then every murder/forensics show will have a crack at the case.

KK will be a sure enough faded rodeo queen by the time this plays out.

I hope her mama has an extra room.
Karla Homolka still gets outed everywhere she goes. The parents at the school that she volunteered at were not at all happy they let her near their children. She's changed her name at least twice. Still she gets found.
 
  • #339
A super lenient plea deal that doesn’t equate to the level of her involvement.
I think LE believed her in the beginning, but I'm wondering if they have doubt now I know I sure do.
 
  • #340
Just when I thought I couldn't feel more sad for Kelsey, you have broken my heart anew, gitana.

Remembering that this was a vulnerable, depressed young mother away from family on a holiday is heartbreaking.

Her hope for more magnifies the pain.

Your last sentence is so touching.:)
Imagine KB's hopes.
The tables have turned for PF and KK, plus all the hanger ons.
PF's life will end in Prison, as he'll never get out.
Even if KK does not receive a great deal of prison time, she will always be a marked woman, by the public.
I think she will live in fear, due to possibly being harmed by a PF supporter.
Great.
Karma will work to all those involved, and they know who they are.:):):)
MOO.
 
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