CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #44 *ARREST*

[SandyQLS]

I keep getting this visual of a silhouette of Ma, standing there on the porch, as that huge fire rages. You know she knew. Whether she approved is anyone's guess.

Plastics are petroleum products. Burning a few trash bags is one thing, but a large heavy-duty plastic tote would produce a black, acrid, greasy, dangerous, chemical kind of smoke. JMO

 

[ajaylee]

That's what I think too, but I wonder on what basis she's taking the fifth. If all she knows is that a fire was burning, which is probably not that unusual on a ranch, I wonder what can be construed as incriminating her.

I think she's still protecting PF. I don't think she's going to give them anything they don't already have.

There clearly was a fire - the evidence was there. Right now, what was burned and when it was burned is 'he said, she said' and PF might say KK is lying about what was burnt. At the very least, SF can confirm exactly when the fire was and who was there.

I think I screwed up yesterday. I was trying to work backwards from when KK got back to Idaho, based on pings, so I could figure out when she must have left Colorado at the latest. I thought KB's last phone ping was around 5 AM, meaning KK must have left around 12 hours earlier, or 5 PM. That meant she couldn't possibly have watched the fire for hours, which I'm sure I read somewhere. The window would be too tight.

I misread. KB's phone pinged the last time around 5PM in Idaho. Working backwards, that means KK must have left Colorado about 5AM. That means she had plenty of time to watch the fire burn for 3-4 hours and to get some sleep before leaving for home the next morning.

So where did she spend the night? Must have been at the ranchette?

I think it's possible - long shot, but possible - that she was there when PF 'scooped' up the remains and could possibly testify about how PF 'packaged' the remains to dispose of them.

 

[Gardener1850]

Were the only people expected at SF's house for Thanksgiving Dinner SF, SF2 & PF? Seems unusual if no other family members were present. Where were his sister and other brother? The media finally reported to us that PF's father is deceased so the other siblings were not with their dad for Thanksgiving. Sean said he was estranged from PF so why would he go to his moms (where PF lives) instead of one of his other siblings homes? I suppose we technically cannot answer at this time as it would require sleuthing them/their families...It just seems strange to plan to have a Thanksgiving Dinner for 3 (if that is what happened). MOO.

 

[enelram]

I wonder if that's why he burned the plastic, to disguise the smell of a burning body.

Question....how would someone know in advance that they needed
to disguise the smell of a burning body? I wouldn't know that,
would you?
rhetorical question, that's all.

 

[susiQ]

Maybe they stayed under one roof because of the kids or because neither had the money for another place.
They must have been on pretty good terms to live with each other for so long.

It's also possible for the reason you give that they remained together but on two different floors of the house. It may seem strange to many of us, but if they remained cordial about the divorce and custody, living on different floors of the dwelling would work best initially (while there are no SO in their lives) for child care, co ordinating work so children don't need daycare from strangers. KK's long term plan was likely to move to CO leave the kiddos with CL and have a very generous visitation as it would have been difficult for her to remove them from ID without his consent. JMO

 

[Gardener1850]

Another thing I want to know-- where did KB's flowers end up?

I wonder if perhaps PF took them to his Mom on Thanksgiving.

MOO.

ETA: Mystery solved thanks to @MsBetsy

Prosecutors later asked Adams about the state of Berreth’s apartment after she was reported missing. He said she had flowers on her kitchen table, and that her purse and house keys were missing. Her car keys were still inside the home, and there was no indication she had packed any luggage or taken any clothes, Adams said.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

So PF and KK both left the flowers there.

 

[enelram]

Another thing I want to know-- where did KB's flowers end up?

I wonder if perhaps PF took them to his Mom on Thanksgiving.

MOO.

probably did.

 

[MsBetsy]

To be fair, besides looking at SF's role in raising her son, we need
to look at what role his father played or did not play in his life.

If true, that his parents were divorced when PF was around 12 yrs. old, this is a critical period in a young boy's life. He's graduating
from being mostly a momma's boy to learning how to become
a young adolescent and normally this would be learned from the father. Dad's role is to teach son how to become a man. And according to Dr. Drew dad's help the son to learn to regulate
aggression. (sound familiar here ?)

Often when Dad and Mom divorces at this age the son perceives
this as abandonment from his father. Anger sets in and takes
the place of depression, in many cases.

We don't know how much time PF's dad spent with him as a
young child. Being the youngest child, maybe dad was tired
of being a parent with the older siblings and he may have, in fact,
neglected and later abandoned the young PF. Maybe he was
hot to live the single life without the constraints of a wife and
child. My guess is PF resented this and took on an angry personna as part of his normal personality. Maybe he took
to drinking and or drugs to drown his sorrows and problems.

Many homicidal males have been shown to have been neglected,
deprived and/or suffered abuse or trauma in their earlier years.
I suspect this is true of PF also. MaF probably knows this also,
which may be why she's so protective of him even today. She
knows he did not get the same family/parental benefits her
other children received. This is why he seems to be the misfit
in the family. moo.

I have thought about all this too. From what we have learned of PF's behavior I wouldn't be surprised if his father was abusive as well. Jmo

 

[SandyQLS]

If I saw my son and a woman burning a huge fire out my front door I would never in a million years think they were burning a body. The thought wouldn't even cross my mind.
jmo

Dave F. probably knows, but it may not be uncommon to burn things out on a rural property? Maybe it was just another fire to SF, and she wondered why they were out there so long, or why was the smoke particularly bad. I think it's very strange that KK added this nonessential detail about SF. JMO SF doesn't care about the fire part - she doesn't want to testify about comings and goings at her house on 11/22. SF will listen to her lawyer and continue to take the 5th IMO.

 

[ajaylee]

It's also possible for the reason you give that they remained together but on two different floors of the house. It may seem strange to many of us, but if they remained cordial about the divorce and custody, living on different floors of the dwelling would work best initially (while there are no SO in their lives) for child care, co ordinating work so children don't need daycare from strangers. KK's long term plan was likely to move to CO leave the kiddos with CL and have a very generous visitation as it would have been difficult for her to remove them from ID without his consent. JMO

<modsnipped sleuthing family>

I believe she said she'd had some supplies because she'd been painting her new house recently, so perhaps she's finally saved up enough money to move out. Of course, that was before she lost her job.

 

[MsBetsy]

Another thing I want to know-- where did KB's flowers end up?

I wonder if perhaps PF took them to his Mom on Thanksgiving.

MOO.

I read they were still on her table when investigators checked the house.
I would really like to know what was in the package Kelsey's mom sent and what PF did with it.

 

[susiQ]

Another thing I want to know-- where did KB's flowers end up?

I wonder if perhaps PF took them to his Mom on Thanksgiving.

MOO.

yes, that is a curiosity! Wonder if they showed up on SF's TG dining room table? OR, were they dried up in a vase at KB's after 2 weeks? OR, did the fastidious "cleaning lady" throw them in the trash along with the tooth and sweater?
Just curious.

 

[PrairieWind]

And with children? I'm shocked they were able to get all of the pleadings filed, but maybe no financial affidavits required in ID? They must have agreed on every point if this is true- I have never seen a Final Judgment issued that fast - IMO.

It happens. If the parties have agreed to everything (property and debt division, custody and support), each gets a financial affidavit completed and file it all together, you can get a Decree, even with children, in just a month or two. IF, IF every agrees to everything.

 

[MsBetsy]

Plastics are petroleum products. Burning a few trash bags is one thing, but a large heavy-duty plastic tote would produce a black, acrid, greasy, dangerous, chemical kind of smoke. JMO

And it would smell horrible too. I accidentally burned something that was plastic and the whole house smelled.
I don't know about a human body burning, though. But I know it's a very distinctive smell. I can't imagine not recognizing it.

 

[ajaylee]

Has it been affirmed that CL's parents own that property? Even if they do, it would not mean that his parents actually live there. Many farmers/ranchers have children living in/on their homes/property. Nothing unusual about that. Some own multiple properties.

I don't think there's anything unusual, but if it is his parent's property, it obviously wouldn't be cool for KK to bringing PF around, even if she and CL are divorced.

I don't know what future she saw for herself and PF. That boy is not leaving SF's ranchette and I would be surprised if CL didn't put up a fuss if KK tried to take the kids to Colorado anyway.

 

[Seattle1]

I 100% agree with this assessment, OLB.
I'm very skeptical that PF's bonfire at La Casa Frazee would have generated the temps needed to completely reduce KB to ashes.

This landfill/dump search is all about finding KB's remains. There is no other reason to go to such painstaking and costly lengths to conduct a search of that magnitude.
I agree with you that there are remains that remain identifiable via DNA match.
My prediction is a successful outcome for LE on that search.

PF is the absolute embodiment of evil.
Fortunately, PF is also incredibly, remarkably, mind-blowingly stupid.
I've always maintained that the more we knew about PF's spectacular master plan(!!) and ensuing action steps, the more stunned we'd be at his utter idiocy.

He has a sum total of zero executive functioning skills.

PF is doomed. His goose is cooked. As is his hide. He's well and truly frazeed.
I say that with a smile.
Go get him, Dan.
You get this evil moron.

All of the Above: JMO.

Last nights sunset. Perhaps KB's leading the landfill search this week....

KOAA News5‏Verified account @KOAA
Jim Korf captured this amazing sunset tonight in Colorado City. Wow!

9:00 PM - 24 Feb 2019 PST

 

[Gardener1850]

I read they were still on her table when investigators checked the house.
I would really like to know what was in the package Kelsey's mom sent and what PF did with it.

I must have missed that detail. Was it in the Arrest Affidavit?

Do we know for sure that KB's mom sent the package?
(It seems logical she did since she knew about it being there but I'm not sure I have seen it confirmed she sent it).

 

[MsBetsy]

yes, that is a curiosity! Wonder if they showed up on SF's TG dining room table? OR, were they dried up in a vase at KB's after 2 weeks? OR, did the fastidious "cleaning lady" throw them in the trash along with the tooth and sweater?
Just curious.

They were left on the table. It was in the article posted yesterday a few times, I think.

 

[GordianKnot]

Last nights sunset. Perhaps KB's leading the landfill search this week....

KOAA News5‏Verified account @KOAA
Jim Korf captured this amazing sunset tonight in Colorado City. Wow!

9:00 PM - 24 Feb 2019 PST

How spectacularly glorious is that? Thank you so much for sharing this, Seattle!

Signs and Miracles....They often go hand in hand.

 

[MsBetsy]

I must have missed that detail. Was it in the Arrest Affidavit?

Do we know for sure that KB's mom sent the package?
(It seems logical she did since she knew about it being there but I'm not sure I have seen it confirmed she sent it).

I'm not sure about the package. I just assumed she sent it. I don't think it was ever revealed what happened to it. But the flowers being still on the table I just saw yesterday. I didn't read it in the affidavit, though.