CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[BingoBongo]

If you are just passing through a state with strict gun laws, as long as you keep those firearms unloaded and in your trunk , that states laws won’t apply to you. The federal law protects gun owners.

Yup, Firearms Owners’ Protection Act.

 

[MyBelle]

But she didn’t get all the blood according to the affidavit so there’s that IMO

Not enough blood was found to prove KB couldn't survive. In the Jessica O'Grady case, the mattress on which she was murdered was brought into the courtroom and there was testimony it was too massive to be survivable. The jury found Edwards guilty of second degree murder.

JMO

 

[BingoBongo]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. And the prosecution's key witness is a proved liar.

JMO

But what if the evidence backs her up?

 

[SandyQLS]

I think during the live tweets it was described as a lump. Either way, it’s a mass of something that melted, burned. MOO

ITA. The AA says 'heap' but the media tweets from Slater's testimony were 'lump' except where poor courthouse acoustics may have produced reports of 'hump'.

Thread 39 page 87:

Daniela Leon‏ @danielaleontv
During this time... Patrick collected wood and begin to start a fire and begin to burn that black tote.... where the remains of Kelsey Berreth were allegedly placed.... Krystal says she never saw Kelsey inside the tote but when the fire began to burn she saw a lump....

*
Agent Slater was reported to have also used 'clumps' and 'clumped' to describe the small melted plastic balls.

Thread 39 page 94:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Slater says Arson Investigator jerry Meams came to the frazee property that day, Dec. 21. They excavated the area & found charred clumps of plastic. A test revealed there was accelerant in the debris.

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV27s27 seconds ago
The melted plastic was described as black & clumped into small balls.

*
Then there were texts about PF will scoop up remains to take to a river or dump. Lump, clump and dump, like a bad rap song.

I really would like to know more about the size of the lump of burnt or molten material. Was it one continuous piece? Some larger and some smaller?

 

[ab01]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. And the prosecution's key witness is a proved liar.

JMO

KB was brutally killed on November 22nd mid afternoon by PF using a baseball bat!!!! Defense prove me reasonable doubt!

 

[ajaylee]

In many serious criminal cases, it is an accomplice’s testimony that proves vital to the prosecution.

These witnesses are proven liars and criminals themselves.

This happens all the time.

A proven liar, criminal, and all around disgusting human being, can be believed if the evidence supports it.

This isn’t merely about taking KK’s word for anything.

The jury won’t trust her at her word, nor should they. But with all the corroborating evidence that backs up her account, I’m not worried.

That's what it's all about, isn't it? Without KK, they might never have known what kind of evidence they were looking for, or where it was, because they didn't understand what had happened - and how complicated it was.

I don't think they would ever have found the Nash Farm evidence. IIRC, there's no cellphone reception in that area. They might have been looking for KB's body in the landfill, not realizing what the shape she was in.

PF obviously failed to take cameras into consideration when making his plans. I think he may very well have been planning to set KK up to take the fall. Think about it. He wanted her to take the body and six bags of damning evidence back to Idaho to dispose of. He knew nothing about cameras or even cellphone pings, so at that point, he thought he was home free, except for the cleanup and body and evidence disposal.

I think there's a very good chance that if KK had relented and taken the body and the six trash bags with her that PF would have tipped the cops off. Who on earth would ever have believed KK if that had happened? PF would have claimed she was a long-distance squeeze who went ballistic when he got with KB and had a baby.

 

[MyBelle]

Hmmmn I think there’s plenty of evidence that KB is dead...moo

I think there is, too, but all it takes is one juror. Which is why that expensive landfill search is being conducted.

There is no evidence of when KB died or who killed her other than KK's version of events and well, she's a proved liar.
JMO

 

[ab01]

But what if the evidence backs her up?

Exactly it’s the evidence that was acquired by kk admissions that is damning. Just saying oh she’s a liar is lazy imo. The evidence is what backs her story....moo

 

[MyBelle]

But what if the evidence backs her up?

That's why they are searching a very specific area in the landfill. The DA needs that corroborating evidence!

JMO

 

[GordianKnot]

In many serious criminal cases, it is an accomplice’s testimony that proves vital to the prosecution.

These witnesses are proven liars and criminals themselves.

This happens all the time.

A proven liar, criminal, and all around disgusting human being, can be believed if the evidence supports it.

This isn’t merely about taking KK’s word for anything.

The jury won’t trust her at her word, nor should they. But with all the corroborating evidence that backs up her account, I’m not worried.

Bouncing off your post, because it's a great one, and yielded this thought:

The reason KK will be believed by a jury is precisely because she is a completely deplorable moral reprobate.

Once the jury hears the facts of the case and what PF did to KB, they will absolutely recognize that only a completely deplorable moral reprobate would have assisted PF in the clean-up and concealment of his vicious, evil, violent, gruesome, murderous attack on KB.

Only someone as loathsome and vile as KK would have done what she did to assist PF.
KK is totally depraved. It would take a totally depraved person to do what she did.
Her testimony will be entirely credible in that regard.

Oh, the jury will hate her. But they'll also believe her. Precisely because they hate her.

JMO.

 

[MtBab]

What is the “standard of proof” in a murder trail? Is it a higher standard than a civil case? Proof beyond reasonable doubt implies a balance with shifting evidence that tips the scale to innocence or guilt? IMO I think some here are just trying to find holes in the defense...and one would think that any good prosecutor would do the same. IMO It’s called critical thinking and because all the facts are not known and the situation is still fluid, it’s a somewhat subjective view at this point in time. Again, MOO.

 

[acutename]

Like conspiracy things. ITA. Can't stand her, or PF, but thankfully she is the weakest link. I wish there was a way to track the burner phones,and data.
Because only three years or less is just shocking.
I wonder if she even realizes she destroyed more than Kelsey's life, in the vortex she created. For Her old flame,she carried a torch for. Quite literally.
She obviously thought it was not to big a deal he talked about smashing Kelsey's head in with a baseball bat. As long as it wasn't her head,and as long as she could force him to do the deed.
MOO.

some how these two people ceased to see KB as human
cruel beyond words

 

[PommyMommy]

To date, Berreth’s remains have not been found and she is presumed dead.
Investigators depict gruesome murder scene with new details in Berreth murder case

 

[MemPat]

The defense has a lot to work with when the witness is a proved liar.

JMO

I can't think of many trials where lying criminals are not some of the main witnesses and many of these trials end in guilty verdicts.

Edited to remove the stars which I didn't type.

 

[SandyQLS]

KB was brutally killed on November 22nd mid afternoon by PF using a baseball bat!!!! Defense prove me wrong!

The only proof you have of your statement is the spoken allegations of KK, a person who lied to and used many people in Idaho, lied to the FBI, and admitted to 3 times traveling to CO to murder KB by her own action but chickened out.

No body
Not enough biological material to prove death
No murder weapon
A known liar as star witness and accuser

It should be an interesting case for the Defense in the professional sense.

In our system of justice, the Defense does not have to prove innocence. The prosecution must prove guilt, and I know you're smart and know all that.

JMO IMO MOO

 

[Artis]

Apples to oranges.

A gun owner can be responsible.

A murderer has already jumped that shark.

Thank you. And, last I checked, there's no constitutionally guaranteed right to commit murder.

 

[MyBelle]

Exactly it’s the evidence that was acquired by kk admissions that is damning. Just saying oh she’s a liar is lazy imo. The evidence is what backs her story....moo

Lazy? The AA makes it clear KK is a proved liar. If the DA already has evidence that backs KK's story, I doubt they would be spending taxpayer money on a very expensive landfill search.

JMO

 

[ab01]

Lazy? The AA makes it clear KK is a proved liar. If the DA already has evidence that backs KK's story, I doubt they would be spending taxpayer money on a very expensive landfill search.

JMO

So you agree if they find KB remains then the prosecution has everything they need to convict PF as the murderer he is correct?

 

[BingoBongo]

Thank you. And, last I checked, there's no constitutionally guaranteed right to commit murder.

And, there is quite a bit of difference between outlawing an object because it could be used in a murder, and outlawing murder itself. Murder is an act, gun ownership is not. His claim was a false equivalency.

 

[acutename]

I read the original news report, which I think was done by one the the Colorado Springs news entities. The Gazette Telegraph newspaper sticks in my mind. What's missing here is that the ex-girlfriend was his high school flame. She was in the hospital. So it was a cheating worthy of Kanickie in "Grease" type scandal. The article implied, but did not actually say, that the current husband had hooked up with her on the rebound, and they had been a couple ever since. I tossed it as memories of bad times at Woodland High,until Slater's testimony revealed enough info to realize the girl he cheated with was probably KK. If I have that scandalous romance right, they worked together in the summer folowing high school graduation. Maybe they worked at one of the many summer camps in the Colorado mountains? IMO

they worked at a dude ranch as per one of the articles