CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[MassGuy]

The more complex something is, the more opportunity there is to make mistakes.....let’s just say many mistakes were made. And karma is indeed a *****

When criminals overthink, they have a tendency to make mistakes.

When stupid criminals overthink, they have a tendency to bury themselves.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

KB was on her period when she was murdered, the defense pointed that out during last week’s testimony. CBI agent Slater confirmed he found tampons in her trash can.

I wonder, why such an intimate info by Slater was necessary at all. I'm uncomfortable with it.

 

[ab01]

When criminals overthink, they have a tendency to make mistakes.

When stupid criminals overthink, they have a tendency to bury themselves.

Lmao that is so true!

 

[ab01]

I wonder, why such an intimate info by Slater was necessary at all. I'm uncomfortable with it.

I may be wrong but I believe it was in response to a question by the defense and to address any speculation head on, before they tried to spin it....moo

 

[gngr~snap]

I wonder, why such an intimate info by Slater was necessary at all. I'm uncomfortable with it.

It points to how much effort was put into cleaning the house. (Or how little)
IMO

 

[gitana1]

There's a lot of information that none of us are privy to. How can I second guess them? Because I have a brain and feel free to second guess anyone. I also don't think anyone is infallible or might not have had other options in a negotiation. Had KK just clammed up and refused to speak, what do you think would have happened? You think they would have just given up and called it a day? Do you think there may have been an even more robust investigation of her to get him? I think that's possible and that it's also possible that further investigation may have uncovered information she gave up for the plea deal. I can also see the fact that they must have thought we have to get this guy so let's give her a deal, now, to move forward faster. Since there is so much we aren't privy to, I may change my mind, which I also feel free to do, when I get more information.

I think it would whittle down to not much and be in the same spot various notorious no-body cases landed, like Susan Powell, Kyron Horman, Ayla Reynolds, Michelle Parker, etc. Just hoping somehow for a slip up or the discovery of a body.

The FBI and CBI simply don't start with a weak investigation and then ramp up to a "more robust" one after time goes on. They start out hard.

All the major investigative work like electronic/computer analysis, witness and POI interviews, is done early on. A lack of evidence doesn't magically translate to these incredible agencies somehow suddenly deciding to do their jobs.

The dates are pretty clear. Unless KK had a time machine, she wasn't there on the 22nd. And it's pretty clear KB was killed on that date.

Yes, anyone is free to believe whatever they feel like believing, even when what they believe isn't support by fact. But my question was how can you second guess them "when the evidence thus far appears to clearly support the charges against PF and indicates KB was not there", not "how can you second guess them?".

Your answer didn't give any facts or reasoning beyond that you can believe what you want to (true) and that no one is infallible and there "might" have been other options.

Seems thin at best.

 

[MsBetsy]

oh, here we go again. hump, bump, lump- it's HEAP.
See pommymommy's affidavit paragraph 74 on preceding page.

Yes, I know, I meant before that. Various articles have used different words.

 

[MyBelle]

The above was BBM. With all due respect...at this time, we do not know for a fact that PF murdered KB. Do I think he did? Yes, I most certainly do. However, none of us at this point can say that PF was the killer OR he wasn't, nor can we at this point in time say that KK did not play a role in the actual murdering of KB (other than the clean-up which she has admitted to). As much involvement as it seems that KK had in this situation of before-during-after, is what makes me keep in the back of my mind, that there is a "possibility" she was involved in the actual murdering of KB also. I hope I am wrong on that, I really do. And I do realize LE/investigators are comfortable with apparently thinking KK was not involved which is fine, because they obviously know way more about this than any of us do.

So, in summary what I'm trying to say is, I definitely feel 100% that PF did it, BUT I am just not ready to say that KK was NOT involved in the actual murder either and I would feel this same way whether PF was female, whether KK was male, whether KK and PF were both females, and whether KK and PF were both males - I would still feel the same way.

This is all JMO.

I agree with you. We do not know for a fact that PF murdered KB and there is no evidence KB is dead nor when she died or how she died. That is why they are at the landfill. They are trying to find corroborating evidence KB is dead.

I'm not about to conclude KK had no involvement in the murder.

JMO

 

[MtBab]

oh, here we go again. hump, bump, lump- it's HEAP.
See pommymommy's affidavit paragraph 74 on preceding page.

I think during the live tweets it was described as a lump. Either way, it’s a mass of something that melted, burned. MOO

 

[ab01]

I think it would whittle down to not much and be in the same spot various notorious no-body cases landed, like Susan Powell, Kyron Horman, Ayla Reynolds, Michelle Parker, etc. Just hoping somehow for a slip up or the discovery of a body.

The FBI and CBI simply don't start with a weak investigation and then ramp up to a "more robust" one after time goes on. They start out hard.

All the major investigative work like electronic/computer analysis, witness and POI interviews, is done early on. A lack of evidence doesn't magically translate to these incredible agencies somehow suddenly deciding to do their jobs.

The dates are pretty clear. Unless KK had a time machine, she wasn't there on the 22nd. And it's pretty clear KB was killed on that date.

Yes, anyone is free to believe whatever they feel like believing, even when what they believe isn't support by fact. But my question was how can you second guess them "when the evidence thus far appears to clearly support the charges against PF and indicates KB was not there", not "how can you second guess them?".

Your answer didn't give any facts or reasoning beyond that you can believe what you want to (true) and that no one is infallible and there "might" have been other options.

Seems thin at best.

Honestly my opinion is:

You can’t second guess them in any rational way! There are no facts to back up an alternative murder plot.

At this point alternative theories are like just throwing wads of paper at a wall and hoping one sticks!

Just being contrary to be contrary is different than making an alternate theory based on fact.

The facts so far support that PF “swung the bat”

 

[LietKynes]

Still curious about that "tooth" KK was supposed to collect during her 'ridding the house of evidence'......
Was it a bullet shell casing ?
And yet she left possible evidence in the baked goods on the countertop and also in the bathroom garbage.
Was KK just being lazy, or was the knocked out 'tooth' (i.e., possible bullet s.c.) more important ?

 

[acutename]

If PF had access to the Nash Ranch and nobody was around, I can't figure out why he wouldn't just bury the body on that property. Hiding it in their barn so that he could wait until KK got there is really bizarre to me.

he did not want it at the ranch with SF and SF2 and any other F family on Thanksgiving

 

[MemPat]

When criminals overthink, they have a tendency to make mistakes.

When stupid criminals overthink, they have a tendency to bury themselves.

...And, hopefully, to bury evidence in a landfill where they've been seen.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree with you. We do not know for a fact that PF murdered KB and there is no evidence KB is dead nor when she died or how she died. That is why they are at the landfill. They are trying to find corroborating evidence KB is dead.

I'm not about to conclude KK had no involvement in the murder.

JMO


JMO

“There is no evidence KB is dead nor when she died or how she died.”

In order for that to be true, which of course it isn’t, the prosection must be pursing a case that doesn’t involve any supporting evidence.

The judge’s ruling during the preliminary hearing, is a complete contradiction to the sentiment that there is no evidence that Kelsey is dead.

You can’t have a murder charge without evidence of a murder.

That’s not how it works.

 

[SFDukie]

Honestly my opinion is:

You can’t second guess them in any rational way! There are no facts to back up an alternative murder plot.

At this point alternative theories are like just throwing wads of paper at a wall and hoping one sticks!

Just being contrary to be contrary is different than making an alternate theory based on fact.

The facts so far support that PF “swung the bat”

Yep. LE has the phone records. They KNOW where KK was when PF phoned re cleanup. Know where she was prior, and subsequently, too. Know where PF was on 11/22/18 (also from footage from KB neighbor). All sorts of info KB was alive 11/22, and none subsequent. Footage of PF at her apt, and not KK that day. Images of tote, etc.

 

[SFDukie]

What is the deal with the pistol and missing round? Curious. Thoughts?

 

[SFDukie]

Thank you! I knew there was more than one black tote, but info overload here for me, I had no idea where I read about it.

There is a lot of 'twinning' in this case:

- 2 guns, MG and KB
- 2 red trucks, PF and KB
- 4 possible black hard plastic totes, 1 burned and 3 at ranchette
- 2 cars known to have been used for KK's 4 trips, a rental and MG's VW Passat; other 2 trips unknown
- 3 bludgeoning weapon possibilities, metal pipe or rod, aluminum baseball bat, wooden baseball bat
- 2 BFF's of KK in Idaho, MG and MS, not to mention recipient of stolen gun MP
- 2 things left by rear of KB's Toyota Corolla, PF's black tote with body and KK's bloody trash bags, not to mention the 2 KB socks in the trunk
- too many phones to count

Just pointing out, and there's probably more.

Some of these are likely mistakes in reporting, IMO. IE bat/rod

 

[acutename]

So KK's limit was slopping around in blood and brain tissue and she refused to load up the body and head to Idaho?

Thus, the fire. No wonder she needed pizza and an Ibuprofen.

maybe driving a car with expired tags and two guns registered to other people was OK with her, but adding a dead body to the cargo was beyond her limits. and you say she has no limits. also - would the car smell so much that her friend M would protest when she returned it?

 

[MassGuy]

What is the deal with the pistol and missing round? Curious. Thoughts?

We don’t know.

It’s interesting, but personally, I think it is completely unrelated to this crime.

KK didn’t have that car (with the gun inside) until the 23rd. She didn’t arrive in Colorado until the morning of the 24th.

The murder almost certainly occurred on Thanksgiving.

If that gun was used by PF or KK, it couldn’t have been used as a murder weapon.

 

[ab01]

“There is no evidence KB is dead nor when she died or how she died.”

In order for that to be true, which of course it isn’t, the prosection must be pursing a case that doesn’t involve any supporting evidence.

The judge’s ruling during the preliminary hearing, is a complete contradiction to the sentiment that there is no evidence that Kelsey is dead.

You can’t have a murder charge without evidence of a murder.

That’s not how it works.

Schrödinger’s cat? I mean I guess my uncle died ten years ago, but he was cremated....so Technically I never actually saw his dead body.

Maybe the defense can prove that KB is still alive?

Ahhhh probably not moo