CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[gitana1]

I believe that through a longer investigation they would have gotten KK without having to give away the store when it comes to her own involvement. In any event, my sincere hope is that she does the full three years and gets the 100K fine. Some here have said that's unlikely and I don't get why.

But what is your basis for that belief? You weren't privy to their conversations, their evidence or their reasoning (CBI/FBI). So how can you second guess them when the evidence thus far appears to clearly support the charges against PF and indicates KB was not there?

How exactly would more time reveal evidence in the case without someone talking? Heck, they wouldn't even know where to try to search for KB's body.

The DA reviews what LE presents and then decides whether there is enough to prosecute, and who will be prosecuted and for what. In this case, the DA was the one orchestrating the plea deal based on the info they had.

Again, these no body cases are highly difficult to prosecute. Why would an experienced DA go forward with such a deal unless the evidence supported it? That makes no sense. DA May doesn't have a reputation for rushing to prosecute or for failed prosecutions.

 

[acutename]

I assume they were the living room curtains - just above the sofa. - maybe about 4 x 6 ft span
Yeah, those curtains would have been bulky. Did LE not notice there were no window coverings when they arrived for the wellness check? I assume these would be the living room curtains that faced the parking lot.

maybe since it is so temperature variable in CO, she had curtains and liners or curtains and shades and only one was removed so it did not look so unusual... just speculating

 

[enelram]

H E A P

View attachment 171149

Pg 10. #74

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for ms.betsy

 

[acutename]

Well hard to cover up a murder,even more so a bloody,brutal murder.

seems that she was only removing the bare minimum of blood stained things, thus the buns and bathroom trash remained

 

[NWLady]

I don't see sexism in the loathing of KK. That would be illogical.

And again, we all think she is dangerous. Who has said she's not?

<modnsip>

My issue is with illogical twisting of evidence or facts to make KK the actual murderer, or the mastermind or as culpable as PF.

That's it.

Is there any one of us who has said we don't loathe her? These are two different concepts: 1) Loathing a monster. 2) Finding the excusing of PF as an unwitting foil or terrified abuse victim and blaming, instead, someone who didn't murder KB, astounding and possibly rooted in sexism.

Those are two, totally different concepts.

The above was BBM. With all due respect...at this time, we do not know for a fact that PF murdered KB. Do I think he did? Yes, I most certainly do. However, none of us at this point can say that PF was the killer OR he wasn't, nor can we at this point in time say that KK did not play a role in the actual murdering of KB (other than the clean-up which she has admitted to). As much involvement as it seems that KK had in this situation of before-during-after, is what makes me keep in the back of my mind, that there is a "possibility" she was involved in the actual murdering of KB also. I hope I am wrong on that, I really do. And I do realize LE/investigators are comfortable with apparently thinking KK was not involved which is fine, because they obviously know way more about this than any of us do.

So, in summary what I'm trying to say is, I definitely feel 100% that PF did it, BUT I am just not ready to say that KK was NOT involved in the actual murder either and I would feel this same way whether PF was female, whether KK was male, whether KK and PF were both females, and whether KK and PF were both males - I would still feel the same way.

This is all JMO.

 

[Julia966]

Well folks the first 75 cubic yards of the landfill search has been
examined. I'm guessing those 25 truckloads were clean, well
not really. They should be locking things up about now.

We debate the specifics and toss ideas around, and then it dawns on me how depraved and horrible this crime is. I hope poor KB is found soon, and they're right on the location. If PF had a shred of decency, he would tell LE where to look.

 

[Dave F.]

I wonder what the closest to this model they sell at say...Walmart?

I’m truly hoping PF screwed up big time and he bought the tote there while on his shopping trip.

Yeah.........that would be nice, but I tried searching WalMart Woodland Park local stock first. Then I tried Tractor Supply Company (TSC) because they have a large one in Woodland Park. Then I tried Harbor Freight because they have one at 1811 Fremont Drive in Cañon City. That's how I picked it. Black plastic with silver handles.
Harbor Freight stuff is all made in China, and I know from the hardware store biz that Chinese blow mold plastic is a lot tougher than US plastic products like Sterilite. It has long strings of fiber, sometimes called scrim, in it. Also, the black is impreganated charcoal dust, which makes it sunlight resistant. I've never tried to burn one, but I imagine it wouldn't just flash and melt like a lot of US origin plastics, and it would certainly not burn the microscopic charcoal bits. I'm not trying to be an expert on burning here.....just trying to imagine what would cast out a ring of little black plastic balls and not much else. I'm guessing a Chinese tote might serve the purpose better for LE than it did for PF. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

The above was BBM. With all due respect...at this time, we do not know for a fact that PF murdered KB. Do I think he did? Yes, I most certainly do. However, none of us at this point can say that PF was the killer OR he wasn't, nor can we at this point in time say that KK did not play a role in the actual murdering of KB (other than the clean-up which she has admitted to). As much involvement as it seems that KK had in this situation of before-during-after, is what makes me keep in the back of my mind, that there is a "possibility" she was involved in the actual murdering of KB also. I hope I am wrong on that, I really do. And I do realize LE/investigators are comfortable with apparently thinking KK was not involved which is fine, because they obviously know way more about this than any of us do.

So, in summary what I'm trying to say is, I definitely feel 100% that PF did it, BUT I am just not ready to say that KK was NOT involved in the actual murder either and I would feel this same way whether PF was female, whether KK was male, whether KK and PF were both females, and whether KK and PF were both males - I would still feel the same way.

This is all JMO.

I’m not a betting man, except when I bet, which I love to do.

I’d bet my life on the fact that PF murdered Kelsey, and KK did not.

We have a solid timeframe as to when the murder occurred, down to a couple hours.

We have a monster lie on the part of PF, one that has him dead to rights (returning to the house).

Witness statements, cell phone activity, and a thorough investigation by the CBI and FBI, put KK at a specific place, at a specific time.

That place was Idaho, a full day and a half before she arrived in Colorado.

If the defense tries to move the timeline, I can’t imagine that they are successful.

We’ll see.

 

[MsBetsy]

The “lump” comment has been bothering me because a whole body seems bigger than a lump, even if curled up. A lump to me might be a whole bunch of other stuff thrown together (like clothes, towels, other random items). Maybe he dumped or buried the body but burned ... other stuff?

Maybe it was a very large lump. (heap) I think it makes sense because clothes or other items would have burned more completely and what was left of a body would appear to be a heap. Imo

 

[acutename]

Thank you for this - I have been out of the loop for a couple of weeks.

In the case I mentioned earlier, by the time it was charred, it was ash (Liknes, O'Brien). There were some teeth, if I recall correctly, but nothing more.

I pictured KK seeing the lump while the rectangular shape of the "tote" melted down as the fire burned.

KB's body could have then started to burn and it sounds like the tote ended up as black balls of plastic in the dirt.

Her flesh would have burned quickly and maybe, just maybe some of her DNA mixed with that black plastic.

Slow burning pieces of bone, especially large bones like femurs may have been scooped up by PF and could be in the landfill.

I once thought he would have dumped her into a mine shaft but there must be a good reason to order an expensive, prolonged examination of designated areas of the dump/landfill. MOO

does anyone know enough about plastics chemistry to know if some of the human material would have likely been mixed with the plastic residue? I am sure there are ignition temps for the different plastic materials- just not sure if the plastic balls likely would have "caught" some other materials after they ignited and left residue. (grim)

 

[Area52]

According to Fox news, the landfill search will take at least 35 days and possibly up to 80 days. Let's hope they find something sooner rather than later!

 

[acutename]

We think they burned it where the dark black ring appears in the lower corral, quite a ways below the front porch of the house, beyond the dug up sewer area. The second photo is a Google Earth screenshot from quite a while ago, showing the tank in the positionj of the dark ring. IMO

did they recover the tank?

 

[Bluebythec]

seems that she was only removing the bare minimum of blood stained things, thus the buns and bathroom trash remained

I wonder how much self-restraint she needed not to shove all the cinnamon buns in her lie-hole?

 

[SFDukie]

The utter disregard for life-both KB's and the implications for her (and PF's) daughter is shocking-by PF, KK, and SF. And I'm not easy to shock.
As others have noted, it seems unlikely that KK acted out of fear for her life, or her children's. And her poor child will have to live with knowing mother was an accomplice in a heinous murder.
That she and PF did such a ludicrously poor job at covering their tracks is also astounding. Leaving digital breadcrumbs in an attempt to distract-without knowing those same records would lead to them? That PF didn't realize that his phone would be examined when KB disappeared? wow. Ditto KK, who should have known that PF's phone would be examined, and lead to her.
And KK being a nurse? astounding.

 

[acutename]

Thank you! I knew there was more than one black tote, but info overload here for me, I had no idea where I read about it.

There is a lot of 'twinning' in this case:

- 2 guns, MG and KB
- 2 red trucks, PF and KB
- 4 possible black hard plastic totes, 1 burned and 3 at ranchette
- 2 cars known to have been used for KK's 4 trips, a rental and MG's VW Passat; other 2 trips unknown
- 3 bludgeoning weapon possibilities, metal pipe or rod, aluminum baseball bat, wooden baseball bat
- 2 BFF's of KK in Idaho, MG and MS, not to mention recipient of stolen gun MP
- 2 things left by rear of KB's Toyota Corolla, PF's black tote with body and KK's bloody trash bags, not to mention the 2 KB socks in the trunk
- too many phones to count

Just pointing out, and there's probably more.

as far as the tote, there is a still picture of PF at the bank drive through on Thanksgiving, with a tote in the back of his truck

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

10:20 a.m.

The prosecution finished questioning Adams by asking him to look at a surveillance video from a bank that shows Frazee with a baby carrier in the passenger seat of his car. There is a black tote in the vehicle that Adams said investigators would learn played a “significant role” in the disappearance of Kelsey Berreth.

 

[Artis]

But what is your basis for that belief? You weren't privy to their conversations, their evidence or their reasoning (CBI/FBI). So how can you second guess them when the evidence thus far appears to clearly support the charges against PF and indicates KB was not there?

How exactly would more time reveal evidence in the case without someone talking? Heck, they wouldn't even know where to try to search for KB's body.

The DA reviews what LE presents and then decides whether there is enough to prosecute, and who will be prosecuted and for what. In this case, the DA was the one orchestrating the plea deal based on the info they had.

Again, these no body cases are highly difficult to prosecute. Why would an experienced DA go forward with such a deal unless the evidence supported it? That makes no sense. DA May doesn't have a reputation for rushing to prosecute or for failed prosecutions.

There's a lot of information that none of us are privy to. How can I second guess them? Because I have a brain and feel free to second guess anyone. I also don't think anyone is infallible or might not have had other options in a negotiation. Had KK just clammed up and refused to speak, what do you think would have happened? You think they would have just given up and called it a day? Do you think there may have been an even more robust investigation of her to get him? I think that's possible and that it's also possible that further investigation may have uncovered information she gave up for the plea deal. I can also see the fact that they must have thought we have to get this guy so let's give her a deal, now, to move forward faster. Since there is so much we aren't privy to, I may change my mind, which I also feel free to do, when I get more information.

 

[MassGuy]

The utter disregard for life-both KB's and the implications for her (and PF's) daughter is shocking-by PF, KK, and SF. And I'm not easy to shock.
As others have noted, it seems unlikely that KK acted out of fear for her life, or her children's. And her poor child will have to live with knowing mother was an accomplice in a heinous murder.
That she and PF did such a ludicrously poor job at covering their tracks is also astounding. Leaving digital breadcrumbs in an attempt to distract-without knowing those same records would lead to them? That PF didn't realize that his phone would be examined when KB disappeared? wow. Ditto KK, who should have known that PF's phone would be examined, and lead to her.
And KK being a nurse? astounding.

There’s a lot of irony here, something I always enjoy when it comes to murderers and their accomplices.

They took extreme measures in order to cover their tracks, and throw law enforcement off their scent.

In doing so, they unwittingly pointed law enforcement right to them.

PF trusted KK enough to enlist her in this crime, and put his life and freedom in her hands.

PF betrayed KB, and KK betrayed PF.

Irony can be funny, but Karma’s a .

 

[gitana1]

I wonder how much self-restraint she needed not to shove all the cinnamon buns in her lie-hole?

Lol!

 

[ab01]

There’s a lot of irony here, something I always enjoy when it comes to murderers and their accomplices.

They took extreme measures in order to cover their tracks, and throw law enforcement off their scent.

In doing so, they unwittingly pointed law enforcement right to them.

PF trusted KK enough to enlist her in this crime, and put his life and freedom in her hands.

PF betrayed KB, and KK betrayed PF.

Irony can be funny, but Karma’s a *****.

The more complex something is, the more opportunity there is to make mistakes.....let’s just say ; many mistakes were made. And karma is indeed a

 

[Artis]

BBM. That's my point.

Meghan told the FBI she didn't keep her gun loaded in the car. When she heard about Berreth, she got suspicious, checked it and found it loaded and one bullet missing. I think the FBI would test the gun to see if it was recently fired.

JMO

No, she said her gun was in the glove compartment with 8 rounds in the clip and none in the chamber. When she got it back there were six in the clip and one in the chamber.